tlarkin

Linux also has very powerful commands like du, grep, awk, etc that allow a user/admin to take advantage of them and help control the system. Everything can be scripted as well to automate the process.

Also, windows has a crap ton of vrisues.

Known self propagating viruses for Linux/OS X = 0 (with the proof of concept)

Known viruses for windows = 100s of thousands.

The military just switched over to some Macs for security reasons, because they are more secure. There is a virus that has infected 100s of thousands of windows PCs You never hear of that with any other OS. The fact remains that windows by design is, bloated, a resource hog, not secure, and is ultimately the worst OS out there when you take everything into consideration. It is easy to use, and MS makes way better server products than their desktop OS. There is a market shift starting to happen and in 5 to 10 years from now I think that Macintosh and Linux will have a bigger market share.

alienationware

Don't count on that happening. M$ is way too smart and clever in terms of marketing and business. The only way Macs and Linux might increase their market share is if M$ flounders on their products (ie. Win Vista).

Anyways, if you've ever played Super Mario, think of WinXP as Super Mario 1 (famous). Then, along comes Super Mario 2 (Win Vista), and everyone was like, WTF? Then, when Super Mario 3 rolled out (Win Blackcomb?) everyone will be like, "wow, this is the sh1t". Look to the Intel vs. AMD battle for instance. For Intel, multi-core CPUs was the "Super Mario Bros. 3".

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Motoxrdude

Can the windows users use pipelines as well?
ie
ls | grep .run

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RIP Mom 9/17/55-02/22/08.

SirKenin

The market shift, actually, is towards web-based softare and subscription-based software. Apple knows this, and thus why they're trying to break into the browser market with Safari. However, in time, Apple will get left in the dust because one thing Steve Jobs CAN'T do is innovate. He is, however, remarkably adept at all but destroying key innovations as history has proven.

By the way, there are two self-propogating viruses for Mac OS X. One made it out in the wild but didn't get very far, with three variants showing up, the other was proof of concept only. Both engines are available for download last I looked.

For the REAL truth about Mac Viruses:

http://www.smallblue-greenworld.co.u...macintosh.html

alienationware

I'm still highly skeptical about this high-tech arena. Me smells internet bubble 2.5 coming up! There's no friggin way you could emulate the functionality of a 1GB software package on the web, unless you are connected to a super-ultra-turbo-psycho-insanium internet superhighway.

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INTELCRAZY

or unless you run it inside your network with a 1000Mbps connection or some fashion of fiber... That's what it is coming to..

What I see is this.. I see a simple application(LiveCD like) that does all the work for you and just connects you to a server which runs a web application(Operating system). And you pay a monthly fee for this and price depends on how much performance you are looking for... It's already out there, just everyone isn't using it yet...

tlarkin

SirKenin-

The two mac viruses you speak of, are of the following. 1 is a quick time codec, that asks for admin rights to install, which is actually malware. Yes, it exists but apple already patched it, and it requires the user to install it. The other virus actually was a web based exploit with webkit browsers through java. Not totally Apple's fault since they don't produce java, but the guy who won the contest to remotely exploit a mac had to bend the rules. In the last couple hours of the contest they were allowed to try to attack from the web, instead of over the network. The winner set up apache real quick, loaded his exploit and then pointed the machine to his web server. They never disclosed the full amount of details of what it atually did.

Then there is MOAB, and if you read through all of their blogs, you will see no one has been able to remotely exploit a mac yet with out some sort of social engineering, ie making a user click and install something they think is legit software. Also those are not self propagating, and they require user interaction. There was also a virus that went through ichat but it couldn't do anything either with out admin rights. That is because nothing can access the kernel with out permission via the shell.

I could go into the the reasons why by design windows is way less secure. I have done it before but will spare everyone from a lengthy boring conversation.

alienationware-

The market shift is already happening. Apple is now boasting over 24 billion in the bank. Steve jobs not innovative? Have you not looked at how many things Microsoft ripped from OS X in vista? You should take a peek. Also, yes SirKenin is right when he is talking about web based. Adobe already patented a web based version of photoshop which will be free. You log onto their web server, upload a photo, edit it, do your work on it, save it, done. All via your web browser. Its already in the works. Also, as for laptop sales Apple beat a lot of PC manufacturers in 2007 for total sales and had the largest % of market growth

http://www.lockergnome.com/blade/200...t-is-for-real/

Apple is not with out fault, and no OS is perfect. However, after working with mainly PC/Windows/Novell/Microsoft networks for the past 7 to 8 years and now running pretty much a strictly Mac network you can easily see the differences. Easier to manage, more secure by design (via Unix).

The only thing that people can't quite compete with yet is AD/Exchange environments because of the hassle you have to go through to migrate from one existing platform to another. Once someone figures that out, be it Apple, Novell (with their SuSe product), or some other Unix/Linux distro you will see more of a market shift. Xserves are already cheaper or as cheap than most PC servers and out perform them in pure data through put, and you don't have to run OS X on them. Apple's Xserves are certified to run OS X, Unix, Linux and Windows server OSes. Anything you can do in the back end is up to your IT department because it will most likely not really effect the end users.

Also, for innovation I am sure that the new version of Windows server copies from Leopard server and adds things like a built in wiki, netboot clients (actually I know it already has that, with WDS, saw a demo of it at some vista training), Server side indexing (spotlight), stackable calendars (I can't believe apple was the first dev to do this), multimedia streaming (pod casting server), etc.

You can't sit there and say Apple is not innovative, look at the iphone and the ipod, they have taken over those markets already. I mean look at what they did to Unix. They took a fairly complex OS, and made it so easy to use that anyone can pick it up and use it with out knowing unix. The end user will never have to touch a command line or compile a package, or do any of that at all. Everything as a GUI front end. Their OS is easily just as powerful as Vista if not more so, and takes up a ton of less system resources to run.

GameMaster

OUch this topic has elevated to the 5. page!! Nice...

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dznutz:

alienationware

The average home user doesn't have that fast of a connection.

That's a failure-prone marketing scheme. People don't like monthly fees. They like just-once pricing. Just about the only people willing to write monthly cheques for dedicated internet servers are the kids already hooked on online gaming.

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Motoxrdude

I'm sure in the days of 1gb webpages, the average user will have a much faster connection then this.

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RIP Mom 9/17/55-02/22/08.