Car Sound System

helmie · 03-06-2006, 10:48 PM

Wouldnt it be fun using a car setup on a computer? Just get a AC to DC convertor, and a few other assorted wires. It would be fun with the jackhammer!

EDIT: Wooooo 700 posts!

suprasteve · 03-06-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vortmax

First off, if you do your homework and build the system right, you don't need Caps. Caps are how you force a substandard system into pumping out more power

I'm pretty sure you're mistaken about capacitors, if by substandard you mean that you don't have a dozen high flow batteries, class D amps, as many alternators as can possibly fit under your hood, and more money than what the car cost new, then there might be validity in that statement. For the rest of us who only want one battery and alternator and want to get as much out of it as we can, capacitors are great, I'd suggest them to anyone with more than a kilowatt of power in their car. Besides class D's, amps are all designed to run at 14.4 or 13.8 volts, and what does a car battery put out? About 12.6 at the best, and nobody with an amp retains that voltage more than 30 seconds with a system, even after a complete battery charge, trust me I know. So you know what pushes voltages up to where they ought to be? Yep, capacitors, and anybody taking their system halfway seriously ought to have one

vortmax · 03-07-2006, 05:49 AM

okay, I suggest you read up on your basic physics. A capacitor will not boost the voltage of a system. All it will do is maintain constant voltage under high draw. So if you have an amp pulling more watts then your cars electrical system can supply, then the cap will kick in and relieve it. Keeps the lights from dimming and the bass from fading under high load. For almost every system (especially one costing under $1000), investing in quality wiring and properly grounding the amps will be more then enough to keep the system from overloading the car's electrical system. There is also the issue that capacitors are effectivly a filter and can cause sound quality issues. Especially with the cheaper ones that are designed only for people that just want a super loud system and don't want to bother with the work of a proper install.

suprasteve · 03-07-2006, 05:17 PM

A good capacitor does in fact boost the voltage of a system, mine sure did, and I had a little lcd that told me exactly what I was running at and I could adjust it too with a screw on the distribution block. For systems under $1000, you won't run into the power requirements that would typically warrant one, that's true, mine was probably in the $1500 range. But for instance in my situation, I had a small battery, 2600 watts, and I made triply sure I got the best grounds and connections I could, I went so far as to run 4 gauge wire directly back to the battery from the capacitor. Until I got the cap, I had serious issues with my lights and stuff at night, and as far as diminished sound quality, I don't really see how that's possible, it's not like the electricity changes, if anything it would cut down on the whining you get from poor connections by giving the electricity one more thing to run through first before reaching the amp. I'd rather not turn this into an argument, but IMO there are serious benefits to a capacitor.

pfclassic · 03-07-2006, 07:47 PM

A capacitor is NOT necessary UNLESS:

You are entering into SPL competitions.

A capacitor stores enough energy to VERY VERY BRIEFLY power your stereo system, so the only benefit to having one is to get a few extra notes off, which is all is necessary in SPL competition. If you THINK you need a capacitor, then what you really need is to upgrade your wiring (including alternator wire under the hood) and possibly a new alternator. My current stereo is 2500 watts rms power, and although i had to replace an alternator, i currently dont, never have, and never will use a capacitor.

For more information on this go to www.caraudio.com, do a search on the forums for capacitor.

jcnoernberg · 03-07-2006, 07:58 PM

a capacitor CAN charge upto a higher voltage. How do you think a camera flash generates enough voltage to cause a flash from a pair of AA betteries? You can hear it charging... That being said, the capacitors you buy at best buy or wherever with the fancy chrome finish or what not are a SCAM. I DARE you to cut one open and see what's inside... a simple capacitor (of the same value) that will cost you $5.00-$10.00 at any electronic surplus store.

Also, I've worked retail in the past (home audio) and you would not believe the markup on car/home speakers. We have accomodations with polk and infinity audio... we could buy just about any speakers for 60% off.. and the company did not lose money. I would NEVER pay any retail prices for speakers. Ebay is flooded with car audio and the prices are great. Buy from a respected seller and buy new. You can't go wrong.

vortmax · 03-07-2006, 08:40 PM

the cap in a camera doesn't boost voltage to the flash, it boosts amperage.

A capacator acts as a signal filter. It does do a good job of filtering out AC noise, but unless you buy a top of the line one, it can also start to filter out high end signal. Dpending on the setup it can also interfere with the midrange and low end signals. Again, high quality caps do it less.

Why are you grounding you cap to the battery? Very bad Idea. You need to ground it to the frame. All of the rest of your cars AC components ground to the battery, making it a huge source of noise. Ground to the frame (which is grounded to the battery via the engine block grounding strap) and that source of noise is gone. Like was mentioned, make sure to replace the alternator ground cable, the engine block ground and the battery cables with a higher gauge cable and it will eliminate the need for the cap.

pfclassic · 03-07-2006, 09:05 PM

Yes this is true... but a capacitor can NOT constantly keep a higher charge. It is designed for SHORT, TEMPORARY power surges. Not going to help in a daily driver sorry. Like you said with the camera flash example. The capacitor allows for a very SHORT surge for the flash, it does not provide enough power for the flash to constantly be on. Like I said, www.caraudio.com and read up on a capacitors job.

vortmax · 03-07-2006, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfclassic

Yes this is true... but a capacitor can NOT constantly keep a higher charge. It is designed for SHORT, TEMPORARY power surges. Not going to help in a daily driver sorry. Like you said with the camera flash example. The capacitor allows for a very SHORT surge for the flash, it does not provide enough power for the flash to constantly be on. Like I said, www.caraudio.com and read up on a capacitors job.

I know. I'm well aware. I wasn't saying that it didn't do that.

suprasteve · 03-07-2006, 09:54 PM

ok well hands of those who have actually had one and what do they think? Oh, that would be me! SInce I had my old system with and without one, I think I'm the only one to show any first-hand knowledge on both sides of the situation. I noticed no change in sound quality, I actually got a little whining out but that may have been due to a better connection. And I can honestly say my lights never dimmed when my battery had any decent charge on it while I had a cap, whereas I couldn't turn my subs up at night without it cause of the dimming lights crap beforehand. And pfclassic, would you consider 4 gauge wire with gold connections enough wire for a 1000 watt amp, same setup for a 1600 on the cap for subs? I thought so. And yes it CAN keep a higher voltage than the battery, at least with a distribution block, which is where I'm guessing the transfer takes place. FInally, its been said repeatedly that a cap gives off a short burst of power, which is exactly why you want it for your subs, and seriously, nobody is going to notice any slight fluctuations in your bass even if a cap makes any degradations in quality, though I'm still not convinced of this

03-06-2006, 10:48 PM	#21 (permalink)
helmie Diamond Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Highlands, Scotland Age: 18 Posts: 1,208	Wouldnt it be fun using a car setup on a computer? Just get a AC to DC convertor, and a few other assorted wires. It would be fun with the jackhammer! EDIT: Wooooo 700 posts! __________________ For sale: http://www.computerforum.com/111463-...tml#post893380

03-07-2006, 05:49 AM	#23 (permalink)
vortmax Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 27 Posts: 619	okay, I suggest you read up on your basic physics. A capacitor will not boost the voltage of a system. All it will do is maintain constant voltage under high draw. So if you have an amp pulling more watts then your cars electrical system can supply, then the cap will kick in and relieve it. Keeps the lights from dimming and the bass from fading under high load. For almost every system (especially one costing under $1000), investing in quality wiring and properly grounding the amps will be more then enough to keep the system from overloading the car's electrical system. There is also the issue that capacitors are effectivly a filter and can cause sound quality issues. Especially with the cheaper ones that are designed only for people that just want a super loud system and don't want to bother with the work of a proper install. __________________ Asus A7N8x delux Nforce 2 AMD Athlon 2800+ (barton core) 512 meg Corsair DDR 400 Gainward G-force FX 5200 Dell 6000i Intel Pentium M 725 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/400MHz FSB) ATI MOBILITY RADEON X300 64MB HyperMemory 1 gig DDR2 PC2-3200 Music server: AMD K6 500 MHz 128 Meg RAM Onkyo HT-R520 Reciever 6.1 DTS ES & Dolby Digital EX

03-07-2006, 08:40 PM	#27 (permalink)
vortmax Platinum Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 27 Posts: 619	the cap in a camera doesn't boost voltage to the flash, it boosts amperage. A capacator acts as a signal filter. It does do a good job of filtering out AC noise, but unless you buy a top of the line one, it can also start to filter out high end signal. Dpending on the setup it can also interfere with the midrange and low end signals. Again, high quality caps do it less. Why are you grounding you cap to the battery? Very bad Idea. You need to ground it to the frame. All of the rest of your cars AC components ground to the battery, making it a huge source of noise. Ground to the frame (which is grounded to the battery via the engine block grounding strap) and that source of noise is gone. Like was mentioned, make sure to replace the alternator ground cable, the engine block ground and the battery cables with a higher gauge cable and it will eliminate the need for the cap. __________________ Asus A7N8x delux Nforce 2 AMD Athlon 2800+ (barton core) 512 meg Corsair DDR 400 Gainward G-force FX 5200 Dell 6000i Intel Pentium M 725 (1.60 GHz/2MB Cache/400MHz FSB) ATI MOBILITY RADEON X300 64MB HyperMemory 1 gig DDR2 PC2-3200 Music server: AMD K6 500 MHz 128 Meg RAM Onkyo HT-R520 Reciever 6.1 DTS ES & Dolby Digital EX

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

03-07-2006, 05:17 PM	#24 (permalink)
suprasteve Diamond Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,355	A good capacitor does in fact boost the voltage of a system, mine sure did, and I had a little lcd that told me exactly what I was running at and I could adjust it too with a screw on the distribution block. For systems under $1000, you won't run into the power requirements that would typically warrant one, that's true, mine was probably in the $1500 range. But for instance in my situation, I had a small battery, 2600 watts, and I made triply sure I got the best grounds and connections I could, I went so far as to run 4 gauge wire directly back to the battery from the capacitor. Until I got the cap, I had serious issues with my lights and stuff at night, and as far as diminished sound quality, I don't really see how that's possible, it's not like the electricity changes, if anything it would cut down on the whining you get from poor connections by giving the electricity one more thing to run through first before reaching the amp. I'd rather not turn this into an argument, but IMO there are serious benefits to a capacitor.

03-07-2006, 07:47 PM	#25 (permalink)
pfclassic Silver Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 23 Posts: 134	A capacitor is NOT necessary UNLESS: You are entering into SPL competitions. A capacitor stores enough energy to VERY VERY BRIEFLY power your stereo system, so the only benefit to having one is to get a few extra notes off, which is all is necessary in SPL competition. If you THINK you need a capacitor, then what you really need is to upgrade your wiring (including alternator wire under the hood) and possibly a new alternator. My current stereo is 2500 watts rms power, and although i had to replace an alternator, i currently dont, never have, and never will use a capacitor. For more information on this go to www.caraudio.com, do a search on the forums for capacitor.

03-07-2006, 07:58 PM	#26 (permalink)
jcnoernberg Silver Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: cleveland, ohio Age: 25 Posts: 148	a capacitor CAN charge upto a higher voltage. How do you think a camera flash generates enough voltage to cause a flash from a pair of AA betteries? You can hear it charging... That being said, the capacitors you buy at best buy or wherever with the fancy chrome finish or what not are a SCAM. I DARE you to cut one open and see what's inside... a simple capacitor (of the same value) that will cost you $5.00-$10.00 at any electronic surplus store. Also, I've worked retail in the past (home audio) and you would not believe the markup on car/home speakers. We have accomodations with polk and infinity audio... we could buy just about any speakers for 60% off.. and the company did not lose money. I would NEVER pay any retail prices for speakers. Ebay is flooded with car audio and the prices are great. Buy from a respected seller and buy new. You can't go wrong.

03-07-2006, 09:05 PM	#28 (permalink)
pfclassic Silver Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 23 Posts: 134	Yes this is true... but a capacitor can NOT constantly keep a higher charge. It is designed for SHORT, TEMPORARY power surges. Not going to help in a daily driver sorry. Like you said with the camera flash example. The capacitor allows for a very SHORT surge for the flash, it does not provide enough power for the flash to constantly be on. Like I said, www.caraudio.com and read up on a capacitors job.

03-07-2006, 09:54 PM	#30 (permalink)
suprasteve Diamond Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,355	ok well hands of those who have actually had one and what do they think? Oh, that would be me! SInce I had my old system with and without one, I think I'm the only one to show any first-hand knowledge on both sides of the situation. I noticed no change in sound quality, I actually got a little whining out but that may have been due to a better connection. And I can honestly say my lights never dimmed when my battery had any decent charge on it while I had a cap, whereas I couldn't turn my subs up at night without it cause of the dimming lights crap beforehand. And pfclassic, would you consider 4 gauge wire with gold connections enough wire for a 1000 watt amp, same setup for a 1600 on the cap for subs? I thought so. And yes it CAN keep a higher voltage than the battery, at least with a distribution block, which is where I'm guessing the transfer takes place. FInally, its been said repeatedly that a cap gives off a short burst of power, which is exactly why you want it for your subs, and seriously, nobody is going to notice any slight fluctuations in your bass even if a cap makes any degradations in quality, though I'm still not convinced of this