UPS questions

Bobo · 06-01-2006, 11:28 PM

I have a Belkin 525VA UPS, and I have been having some problems with it.

To start with, I have always had electrical problems in my room, because this is an old house, and wasn't meant to have 3000W all on one line up to my room. So I get a lot of flickerings, and many brownouts, which my UPS generally covers. But I have some questions, and problems

On the bottom of my UPS, it says 525VA, and 315W. My computer and monitor combined are about 550W. Does that mean that I cannot have them running on there?

Whenever the power goes out, the UPS does not kick in. I assumed that the battery was dead, but is there any other possibility?

On Memorial Day, when it was in the mid-to-high 90s, all of a sudden my UPS would shut off, like it had no power, and the battery-powered outlets would be off, but the surge only outlets would not turn off. Why?

I know that a new UPS would solve all of my problems, but I don't have much money right now. Is there any way that I can fix these things?

OvenMaster · 06-02-2006, 03:29 AM

1. 3000W up to your room on one line is 25 Amperes! The limit on one line is 20A. You're grossly overloaded to the point where you've GOT to disconnect something. No way is more than 20A on one line safe unless you're feeding a single device like an air conditioner or heater... and nothing else... on its own dedicated circuit. Disconnect something now! On one fuse/breaker/line, you can't use more than maybe 1500W continuously.

2. Your PC and Monitor add up to more than the UPS can handle with its battery for more than maybe 5 minutes, maximum. And that's with a fresh, new battery. You're overloading it badly. With lots of brownouts and flickerings, you're constantly switching the battery from no load to a heavy discharge. UPS batteries do not last more than a couple of years anyway.

3. If the power dies, and the UPS does not kick in, it's busted, plain and simple. Either your battery isn't holding a charge anymore, or there's a problem in the sensing circuitry.

My serious advice to you is to start saving for a new UPS. Unless the UPS you're using is still in warranty, you need a new one. There's no way around it. You need one with at least 700-800VA rating. And get more power lines in the room from more circuits. You're dangerously overloaded and risking a fire. I'm not joking.

Tom

Bobo · 06-02-2006, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvenMaster

1. 3000W up to your room on one line is 25 Amperes! The limit on one line is 20A. You're grossly overloaded to the point where you've GOT to disconnect something. No way is more than 20A on one line safe unless you're feeding a single device like an air conditioner or heater... and nothing else... on its own dedicated circuit. Disconnect something now! On one fuse/breaker/line, you can't use more than maybe 1500W continuously.

I have never blown a fuse.....
Here are the specs:
Computer--300W
Monitor--240W
Laptop--324W (is that right? The charger said 2.7A)
Speakers--100W
Printer--1150W
Air Conditioner--550W
Lights--56W
Radio--80W
a bunch of random other small things
So that adds up to 2800W. All this is plugged into 3 outlets, all connected into the one outlet that hooks up to the circuit breakers downstairs. If this really is a huge overload, then why hasn't the breaker been blown?

Quote:

2. Your PC and Monitor add up to more than the UPS can handle with its battery for more than maybe 5 minutes, maximum. And that's with a fresh, new battery. You're overloading it badly. With lots of brownouts and flickerings, you're constantly switching the battery from no load to a heavy discharge. UPS batteries do not last more than a couple of years anyway.

OK, that is what I figured

Quote:

3. If the power dies, and the UPS does not kick in, it's busted, plain and simple. Either your battery isn't holding a charge anymore, or there's a problem in the sensing circuitry.

No, the power didn't die, that is what is confusing me. The UPS just turned off, like it had no power, but it was still supplying power through the surge only sockets

Quote:

My serious advice to you is to start saving for a new UPS. Unless the UPS you're using is still in warranty, you need a new one. There's no way around it. You need one with at least 700-800VA rating. And get more power lines in the room from more circuits. You're dangerously overloaded and risking a fire. I'm not joking.

Well a new UPS isn't going to come any time soon, but what can I do about the electricity consumption?

Thanks

Tim

[-0MEGA-] · 06-02-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo

I have never blown a fuse.....
Here are the specs:
Computer--300W
Monitor--240W
Laptop--324W (is that right? The charger said 2.7A)
Speakers--100W
Printer--1150W
Air Conditioner--550W
Lights--56W
Radio--80W

Your computer doesnt always use what your PSU is rated for, you can have a 600Watt PSU but only be using 200Watts.

No way does a laptop use that, a laptop charger uses about 32.4 watts.

Again, your speakers only use what they put out. If your not blasting your music, it's not using 100 watts.

What kind of printer is that? Again, it only uses that when your printing something.

OvenMaster · 06-02-2006, 03:26 PM

Okay. Let's revisit this.

Omega is quite right: you're not using everything all the time, and not everything runs at full tilt all the time, either. This is good. The computer might be using just 250W, the monitor maybe 200W, speakers maybe 30W, max; lights, radio, yada yada yada... let's say a total of 850W, for the sake of discussion. Actually, that's fine. Well within the limits of even a 15A older home branch circuit. Now this all makes sense.

I'll bet that's a laser printer, at 1150W. 1150 divided by 120 = 9.58A. The printer actually should be on its own circuit. That's how they do it in offices where there are a lot of them. Laser printers suck up so much power that they overload normal circuits that have other devices on them. If you get flickering lights when the laser printer kicks in, well, that's why. 1150+850=2000W = 16.67A = Overloaded 15A circuit.

The thing is, electricians who are installing new circuits and adhere to National Electrical Code standards, or even tougher local standards, add up everything, and would come up with a load of...3000W, and would design the circuits needed to feed that much juice to a single room. I was thinking as an electrician (I've studied some of the code, and have successfully wired rooms myself... but I'm not a pro)

Bottom line, I'd check the sockets in the room for loose wiring at the screws. They can and do loosen up over the years. I'd even get some new outlets. Old ones just aren't up to heavy use. I live in an old house too, and new decent-quality outlets cost maybe a couple of bucks. Don't use the 89-cent cheap junk ones from Home Depot. But basically, I seriously would still advise a second circuit for that room, to split up the load. Older houses will have overloaded 15A circuits outside of the kitchen, and they're often shared with other rooms, and today, that's just not enough anymore.

Tom

Bobo · 06-02-2006, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvenMaster

Omega is quite right: you're not using everything all the time, and not everything runs at full tilt all the time, either. This is good. The computer might be using just 250W, the monitor maybe 200W, speakers maybe 30W, max; lights, radio, yada yada yada... let's say a total of 850W, for the sake of discussion. Actually, that's fine. Well within the limits of even a 15A older home branch circuit. Now this all makes sense.

I know that I am not using everything, I was just putting the max rated because that is what I could figure out.

Quote:

I'll bet that's a laser printer, at 1150W.

Yep, HP Laserjet 8150DN. Dang huge, too

Quote:

1150 divided by 120 = 9.58A. The printer actually should be on its own circuit. That's how they do it in offices where there are a lot of them. Laser printers suck up so much power that they overload normal circuits that have other devices on them. If you get flickering lights when the laser printer kicks in, well, that's why. 1150+850=2000W = 16.67A = Overloaded 15A circuit.

I don't have another circuit for the printer.

Quote:

No way does a laptop use that, a laptop charger uses about 32.4 watts.

I was reading the output (2.7A), not the input (1.3A) but it still seems like a lot.

Quote:

The thing is, electricians who are installing new circuits and adhere to National Electrical Code standards, or even tougher local standards, add up everything, and would come up with a load of...3000W, and would design the circuits needed to feed that much juice to a single room. I was thinking as an electrician (I've studied some of the code, and have successfully wired rooms myself... but I'm not a pro)

The electrician wasn't putting in a new circuit, he just added sockets and grounded the existing ones (the house is old, it didn't have grounded sockets.

Quote:

Bottom line, I'd check the sockets in the room for loose wiring at the screws. They can and do loosen up over the years. I'd even get some new outlets. Old ones just aren't up to heavy use. I live in an old house too, and new decent-quality outlets cost maybe a couple of bucks. Don't use the 89-cent cheap junk ones from Home Depot. But basically, I seriously would still advise a second circuit for that room, to split up the load. Older houses will have overloaded 15A circuits outside of the kitchen, and they're often shared with other rooms, and today, that's just not enough anymore.

All the sockets are brand new. A second circuit would be hard to install, and probably expensive, right?

Oh, actually I remembered that this circuit is not just for my room, it is for the whole third floor. The other room also has an air conditioner (510W, when running) and a TV.

So basically you are saying that if I can't unplug anything, then I need a second circuit? Is there any other way to fix this?

edit: ok, I checked some things. The circuit for both bedrooms up here is 20A, which would mean 2400W. If I have everything running, the max that I think that I can get is 2600W. Is that OK? I doubt that I would ever have everything running at once. The only time that I recall blowing the circuit was when I had my 1400W heater running...

Starman* · 06-02-2006, 10:32 PM

I skipped most of the previous replies - too much info for my brain. 'Scuse me if I go over stuff.

Your ups may be taking some power just after a black- or brown-out to recharge the batteries but once charged there will be negligible current. Once it is charged, any electrical deficiencies in the house are irrelevant to the pc problem. The ups is primed to do the swop-over.

If the ups is failing on power failure, it could be the settings in Windows. Control Panel / Power Options / UPS. What have you set?

Starman*

Bobo · 06-02-2006, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starman*

I skipped most of the previous replies - too much info for my brain. 'Scuse me if I go over stuff.

Your ups may be taking some power just after a black- or brown-out to recharge the batteries but once charged there will be negligible current. Once it is charged, any electrical deficiencies in the house are irrelevant to the pc problem. The ups is primed to do the swop-over.

If the ups is failing on power failure, it could be the settings in Windows. Control Panel / Power Options / UPS. What have you set?

Starman*

Well we already established that the UPS is dead

OvenMaster · 06-03-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobo

Oh, actually I remembered that this circuit is not just for my room, it is for the whole third floor. The other room also has an air conditioner (510W, when running) and a TV.

So basically you are saying that if I can't unplug anything, then I need a second circuit? Is there any other way to fix this?

edit: ok, I checked some things. The circuit for both bedrooms up here is 20A, which would mean 2400W. If I have everything running, the max that I think that I can get is 2600W. Is that OK? I doubt that I would ever have everything running at once. The only time that I recall blowing the circuit was when I had my 1400W heater running...

I know all about old houses with just one circuit on upper floors! They're a PITA when you want to have anything more running than a few light bulbs. One house I had didn't even have wall sockets on the second floor, just light fixtures! Your problem of this being a third floor makes fixing this problem even harder.

Let's look logically at this:
You're limited to X watts available. You occasionally run up against that limit with other rooms using power as well. You have two choices:
1. Unplug or do not use some electrical devices.
2. Add circuits so that you can use all you need or want.
Do YOU see any other options? I don't.

I almost had a similar problem where I'm living now. Everything but one outlet on the second floor is on one 15A circuit. One other circuit is a dedicated air conditioner outlet that was installed before we moved in. Lucky me: it's in the room I use for the pc and the stereo. I branched off of it to enable me to use that outlet for pc and stereo gear... because I do not have any air conditioners. This has enabled me to not worry about any of the other electrical devices on the second floor.

I'm not an electrician, but I have studied it. Generally you should not, as a rule, use more than 80% of a circuit's capacity on a regular basis. You're using the limit of the circuit, and more. Not good. Talk to an adult in your house. You've got a safety problem and a potential electrical fire hazard in your home.

Tom

Bobo · 06-03-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OvenMaster

Let's look logically at this:
You're limited to X watts available. You occasionally run up against that limit with other rooms using power as well. You have two choices:
1. Unplug or do not use some electrical devices.
2. Add circuits so that you can use all you need or want.
Do YOU see any other options? I don't.

nope I don't

I'm not an electrician, but I have studied it. Generally you should not, as a rule, use more than 80% of a circuit's capacity on a regular basis. You're using the limit of the circuit, and more. Not good. Talk to an adult in your house. You've got a safety problem and a potential electrical fire hazard in your home.[/quote] Safety like what? What would catch on fire?

And how do I find out what I am actually using? Because evidentally I am not always using 2500W,

06-01-2006, 11:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bobo banned Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Pittsburgh Age: 18 Posts: 6,623	UPS questions I have a Belkin 525VA UPS, and I have been having some problems with it. To start with, I have always had electrical problems in my room, because this is an old house, and wasn't meant to have 3000W all on one line up to my room. So I get a lot of flickerings, and many brownouts, which my UPS generally covers. But I have some questions, and problems On the bottom of my UPS, it says 525VA, and 315W. My computer and monitor combined are about 550W. Does that mean that I cannot have them running on there? Whenever the power goes out, the UPS does not kick in. I assumed that the battery was dead, but is there any other possibility? On Memorial Day, when it was in the mid-to-high 90s, all of a sudden my UPS would shut off, like it had no power, and the battery-powered outlets would be off, but the surge only outlets would not turn off. Why? I know that a new UPS would solve all of my problems, but I don't have much money right now. Is there any way that I can fix these things?

06-02-2006, 03:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
OvenMaster VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Red Sox Nation Age: 50 Posts: 2,193	1. 3000W up to your room on one line is 25 Amperes! The limit on one line is 20A. You're grossly overloaded to the point where you've GOT to disconnect something. No way is more than 20A on one line safe unless you're feeding a single device like an air conditioner or heater... and nothing else... on its own dedicated circuit. Disconnect something now! On one fuse/breaker/line, you can't use more than maybe 1500W continuously. 2. Your PC and Monitor add up to more than the UPS can handle with its battery for more than maybe 5 minutes, maximum. And that's with a fresh, new battery. You're overloading it badly. With lots of brownouts and flickerings, you're constantly switching the battery from no load to a heavy discharge. UPS batteries do not last more than a couple of years anyway. 3. If the power dies, and the UPS does not kick in, it's busted, plain and simple. Either your battery isn't holding a charge anymore, or there's a problem in the sensing circuitry. My serious advice to you is to start saving for a new UPS. Unless the UPS you're using is still in warranty, you need a new one. There's no way around it. You need one with at least 700-800VA rating. And get more power lines in the room from more circuits. You're dangerously overloaded and risking a fire. I'm not joking. Tom __________________ Frankenbox III: CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ * MOBO: Biostar K8M800 Micro AM2 * RAM: 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 667 HDD: 2x WD 160GB, Seagate 320GB (640GB total) * OPT: 2x Pioneer DVR-115DBK DVD burners PSU: Antec Basiq 500W * GPU: PNY GeForce FX5200 256MB AGP 8x * MON: ViewSonic LCD VA721 CASE: EvTek midtower * SND: Diamond Xtreme 5.1 * OS: XP Home SP3 * ROUTER: Linksys WRT54GS Last edited by OvenMaster; 06-02-2006 at 03:42 AM.

06-02-2006, 03:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
OvenMaster VIP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Red Sox Nation Age: 50 Posts: 2,193	Okay. Let's revisit this. Omega is quite right: you're not using everything all the time, and not everything runs at full tilt all the time, either. This is good. The computer might be using just 250W, the monitor maybe 200W, speakers maybe 30W, max; lights, radio, yada yada yada... let's say a total of 850W, for the sake of discussion. Actually, that's fine. Well within the limits of even a 15A older home branch circuit. Now this all makes sense. I'll bet that's a laser printer, at 1150W. 1150 divided by 120 = 9.58A. The printer actually should be on its own circuit. That's how they do it in offices where there are a lot of them. Laser printers suck up so much power that they overload normal circuits that have other devices on them. If you get flickering lights when the laser printer kicks in, well, that's why. 1150+850=2000W = 16.67A = Overloaded 15A circuit. The thing is, electricians who are installing new circuits and adhere to National Electrical Code standards, or even tougher local standards, add up everything, and would come up with a load of...3000W, and would design the circuits needed to feed that much juice to a single room. I was thinking as an electrician (I've studied some of the code, and have successfully wired rooms myself... but I'm not a pro) Bottom line, I'd check the sockets in the room for loose wiring at the screws. They can and do loosen up over the years. I'd even get some new outlets. Old ones just aren't up to heavy use. I live in an old house too, and new decent-quality outlets cost maybe a couple of bucks. Don't use the 89-cent cheap junk ones from Home Depot. But basically, I seriously would still advise a second circuit for that room, to split up the load. Older houses will have overloaded 15A circuits outside of the kitchen, and they're often shared with other rooms, and today, that's just not enough anymore. Tom __________________ Frankenbox III: CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ * MOBO: Biostar K8M800 Micro AM2 * RAM: 2x1GB Kingston DDR2 667 HDD: 2x WD 160GB, Seagate 320GB (640GB total) * OPT: 2x Pioneer DVR-115DBK DVD burners PSU: Antec Basiq 500W * GPU: PNY GeForce FX5200 256MB AGP 8x * MON: ViewSonic LCD VA721 CASE: EvTek midtower * SND: Diamond Xtreme 5.1 * OS: XP Home SP3 * ROUTER: Linksys WRT54GS Last edited by OvenMaster; 06-02-2006 at 03:32 PM.

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06-02-2006, 10:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
Starman* Gold Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 441	I skipped most of the previous replies - too much info for my brain. 'Scuse me if I go over stuff. Your ups may be taking some power just after a black- or brown-out to recharge the batteries but once charged there will be negligible current. Once it is charged, any electrical deficiencies in the house are irrelevant to the pc problem. The ups is primed to do the swop-over. If the ups is failing on power failure, it could be the settings in Windows. Control Panel / Power Options / UPS. What have you set? Starman*