Anyone here who can beat Dell?

**Praetor** · 02-26-2005, 05:23 AM

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Hmm... So the bus speed is determined by the chip instead of the motherboard? I thought 800 and 1600 stood for the mhz...

The bus speed is determined by a combination of the chip and the motherboard. The reason I didnt say 800Mhz or 1600Mhz or whatever is because thats actually not true (more on that in a sec). The reason I said "for intel...." and "for amd..." is because I dont expect you to be considering older Intel systems (which run "400" and "533") or older AMD (which run "333" and "400" ) systems.

Why the " "?
- Common marketing gimmick (as Dell has done here) is to "make a tactical mistake" and thus improve the marketing power of a given product: for Intel machines (which should be what you're considering given the task fo the machine), there are three paramaters: FSB (front side bust) seed, BUS speed and CPU clock speed. A fourth value called the multiplier also plays a role. For intel:
-BUS = FSB x 4
- CPU Clock Speed = FSB x Multiplier
In the case of the processor you've got originally selected:
- BUS = 200 x 4 = 800 (Dell has purposefully and incorrectly labeled this as FSB = 800 which would result in a stupidly fast BUS speed)
- CPU Clock Speed = 200 x 15.0 = 3000Mhz = 3GHz
For AMD its slightly different but the principle is the same.

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And I don't know what you mean by fancy worstation cards.

In that case then dont worry about it

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I just need as much memory as possible(I think? Does less memory mean less speed always or only when the max memory capacity is reached?) and enough graphics to clearly see graphics and good refresh rate, etc... I think...

In that case, onboard (aka integrated, builtin) graphics are sufficient ... no need for anything fancy

red onion · 02-26-2005, 05:25 AM

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I blew out the power supply box wires. Now it only turns on when one of the exposed wire is touching a metal.

Am I the only one that finds this unsafe?

**Praetor** · 02-26-2005, 05:28 AM

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Of course those prices are without the monitor and accessories, but I guess you could get better parts for less prices on those too.

Yes thats why I stopped at ~600-700 ... the rest is somewhat independent and im sure you can get on your own ... since you dont intend to do any gaming on the machine dont get suckered into buying a LCD screen (if you intend to go that route) with a low refresh ... yes, lower is better but that only matters if you're playing games

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Where are those quoted prices from?

From a quick query of local stores (im in canada) and im assuming conversion rate 1.2 (0.83333) which, although I havnt checked, shouldnt be too far off.

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And I hope if I build the system, I don't mess it up. Last time I tried to install a CD burner in my current computer (used it for 10years, had a good run, on Windows 98, was a good system back then, still gets the job done, but I need more power), I blew out the power supply box wires

.
Ouchie

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Am I the only one that finds this unsafe?

Nope

Raster · 02-26-2005, 05:30 AM

Once again, thanks for all your help... This is clearing up alot of things.

Would you say that 200mhz for bus speed is relatively high? And also, is it normal for cpu speed to be 15 times more than the bus speed?

**Praetor** · 02-26-2005, 05:33 AM

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Would you say that 200mhz for bus speed is relatively high? And also, is it normal for cpu speed to be 15 times more than the bus speed?

200 is standard. Intel has a 266Mhz version but those will entail costs > $1000 just for the CPU and motherboard (yes some people are willing to pay the premium). As for the multiplier, yes thats normal (actually its prolly better off to say "its not abnormal" since you dont really have a say with the multiplier its just "kinda there and you deal with it")

Raster · 02-26-2005, 05:45 AM

Cheers. I'll check out the recommendations you gave me. I'll have to balance the upgradability and customization of your specs versus Dell's bells and whistles(flat screen display + speakers made for flat screen displays. And it looks cool. Yeah, I'm so shallow. Too bad my printer/scanner/camera is white.) and my tendency to blow things up.

**Praetor** · 02-26-2005, 05:47 AM

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I'll have to balance the upgradability and customization of your specs versus Dell's bells and whistles(flat screen display + speakers made for flat screen displays.

Yeah, beating the box is easy ... beating the rest (CRT, software, accessories) is a bit more difficult

Personally id think it be worth it for the upgradability and the its-not-a-dell-so-i-can-actually-do-something-in-my-BIOS factor

Raster · 02-26-2005, 08:20 AM

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Originally Posted by Praetor

Yeah, beating the box is easy ... beating the rest (CRT, software, accessories) is a bit more difficult

Personally id think it be worth it for the upgradability and the its-not-a-dell-so-i-can-actually-do-something-in-my-BIOS factor

I wouldn't know what to do in the BIOS.

So I wouldn't be able to configure CPU clock speeds and such in Dell BIOS, right?

This is kind of related to the Is it True? thread, but I see that my Dell system comes with PCI slots only. Does AGP really make a difference as far as graphic card performance? And could I use both the integrated graphcs card that is in there now and another graphics card at the same time to boost performance? I'm guessing not.

And the PSU only goes up to 250 watts... What does this mean as far as upgrades go?

Thanks for the help.

Raster · 02-26-2005, 09:26 AM

I may pay almost $200 dollars more for these extra features... Good or bad?

Dell Dimension 4700 Series Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3.00GHz, 800 FSB) CP308H [221-5230] 1 instead of 2.8

Monitor FREE UPGRADE! 17 in E173FP Analog Flat Panel E173FPB [463-5112] 5 instead of 15 inches

Video Cards 128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE X300SE [320-3873] 6 instead of integrated...

Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] 14 can't get rid of this...

CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 16DVDRW [313-2995][420-5079] 16 instead of r/w only

Digital Audio Bundles Digital Music - 30 Watt Stereo Spks w/Subwoofer, Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit DIGMUS [313-3256][313-3257][412-0741][463-7300][313-6010] 140

305Watts PSU instead of 250W

keyboard with volume and multimedia control...

And how does the new graphics card compare to AGP cards?

kof2000 · 02-26-2005, 09:44 AM

pci express slot is faster than agp.

02-26-2005, 09:44 AM	#20 (permalink)
kof2000 Diamond Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Oahu Age: 27 Posts: 6,273	pci express slot is faster than agp. __________________ QX9650@4.2 swiftech \|9600@3.0 9700 nt 780i \| 790fx 8gb ddr1200 \| 8gb ddr1200 2x150gb 3x1tb \|2x250gb 3x8800gtx \|3x2900xt 1gb 2x20xdvdrw \|2x20xdvdrw 15in1 card reader \|15in1 card reader ng15/g9 \|ng15/g9 1200w psu \|1200w psu 2x28" LCD \|2x28" LCD

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02-26-2005, 05:30 AM	#14 (permalink)
Raster Bronze Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 26	Once again, thanks for all your help... This is clearing up alot of things. Would you say that 200mhz for bus speed is relatively high? And also, is it normal for cpu speed to be 15 times more than the bus speed?

02-26-2005, 05:45 AM	#16 (permalink)
Raster Bronze Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 26	Cheers. I'll check out the recommendations you gave me. I'll have to balance the upgradability and customization of your specs versus Dell's bells and whistles(flat screen display + speakers made for flat screen displays. And it looks cool. Yeah, I'm so shallow. Too bad my printer/scanner/camera is white.) and my tendency to blow things up.

02-26-2005, 09:26 AM	#19 (permalink)
Raster Bronze Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 26	I may pay almost $200 dollars more for these extra features... Good or bad? Dell Dimension 4700 Series Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3.00GHz, 800 FSB) CP308H [221-5230] 1 instead of 2.8 Monitor FREE UPGRADE! 17 in E173FP Analog Flat Panel E173FPB [463-5112] 5 instead of 15 inches Video Cards 128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE X300SE [320-3873] 6 instead of integrated... Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] 14 can't get rid of this... CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 16DVDRW [313-2995][420-5079] 16 instead of r/w only Digital Audio Bundles Digital Music - 30 Watt Stereo Spks w/Subwoofer, Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit DIGMUS [313-3256][313-3257][412-0741][463-7300][313-6010] 140 305Watts PSU instead of 250W keyboard with volume and multimedia control... And how does the new graphics card compare to AGP cards?