are swedes retarded or am I just mentallyhandicapped when it comes to comps?

[Cooto3s]

I'm just trying to get some clarification here, because I'm confused... On this swedish cheating site, you know, a cheat database for SP games.. There's also a forum and a little bit of a community aswell.. And I saw this one post on the forum where it said: 'Virus!! :'o'
And he talked a little about his problem. And this 19 year old guy thats been sitting in front of the forums too much reading what all the swedes say about comps (Which is for the most part not true because swedes arent too bright, atleast, their not as bright as they think they are.

And well he posted a link to this swedish site where they talked a little bit about viruses, and basically what he said in the post was that no virus can ever be removed using a anti virus program. What he said was something like this: The only way to get rid of a virus is to format your computer. When a virus get into your computer, it has total control of your computer, including your anti virus program, so if you get a virus into your computer, your screwed unless you format. Because the virus controls everything. To me this sounds a bit off.

I thought this was pretty hilarious aswell, this is a little pic they added to clear things up for the bunheads:

What theyr trying to say is that it gets in between the applications and the OS, and from there takes control of the computer.. What the ****? What's this forum for if it's true??!

Sometimes...All the time.. I'm ashamed of beeing swedish, and that's true..

 

[TrainTrackHack]

Sometimes...All the time.. I'm ashamed of beeing swedish, and that's true..

Not to worry, sometimes being half-scandinavian has made me want to jump off a cliff as well

 

[Mitch?]

you guys are lucky. i got alot of shit end nations
i'm polish, scottish, irish, german, french, danish, and like 5 others (to a small extent), also 1/20th american indian, can't even tell

 

[Vizy]

you guys are lucky. i got alot of shit end nations
i'm polish, scottish, irish, german, french, danish, and like 5 others (to a small extent), also 1/20th american indian, can't even tell

Yea, from your avatar, you look just like this one dude on the news.

 

[gamerman4]

A virus really isn't any different than any other program on a computer. Sure it can do weird things to your computer but as far as taking complete control of everything, that is an ignorant statement. A virus is easily stopped once you manage to kill any processes it has created (and making sure they stay closed). A virus is no use if it isn't running in the background and once you stop it, it is just a matter of cleaning up the files it had created. A firewall helps too since viruses often try to download spyware and make you comp even more messed up, a firewall would keep it isolated.

 

[Cooto3s]

Ye, they actually called me ignorant for disagreeing with them. I'd like ceewi to post here aswell if he's got time for it :> and tell me what he thinks

 

[TrainTrackHack]

Care to give us a link to this forum/thread you're talking about? I really wanna see it P)

 

[Cooto3s]

it's all in swedish mate, though knock yourself out - http://www.fuska.nu/forum/trad.php?id=1642209

 

[gamerman4]

it's all in swedish mate, though knock yourself out - http://www.fuska.nu/forum/trad.php?id=1642209

hooray for google translator

 

[gamerman4]

for those that just want to see the idiot guys response and reasoning
http://ungdomar.se/forum.php?thread_id=234500

 

[Cooto3s]

Google translator? didnt know there were such a thing, lol.

 

[gamerman4]

translate.google.com

its not %100 accurate but it is good enough so that you can understand it.

 

[Cooto3s]

Double Post, sorry.


EDIT:
Theres a use for double posts after all.

I'd like to add this aswell:

He said that the only reason the 'scan computer' thingy is there on the anti virus programs was so the user would feel 'safer' I couldnt translate this any better so it'll have to due.

 

[Encryptor]

Vilken idiot, vet du vad de säger: Lite kunskap är en farlig sak.

Encryptor
Linux stenar planeten ...

 

[TheViper]

"are swedes retarded or am I just mentallyhandicapped when it comes to comps?"
What a crappy thread title. If you really want to attract people you should invest more time naming threads.

A virus really isn't any different than any other program on a computer. Sure it can do weird things to your computer but as far as taking complete control of everything, that is an ignorant statement. A virus is easily stopped once you manage to kill any processes it has created (and making sure they stay closed). A virus is no use if it isn't running in the background and once you stop it, it is just a matter of cleaning up the files it had created. A firewall helps too since viruses often try to download spyware and make you comp even more messed up, a firewall would keep it isolated.

"...taking complete control of everything, that is an ignorant statement."
You would find it very true if you read little about the computers architecture, I am sure your local library has much to teach you on that subject.

"A virus is easily stopped once you manage to kill any processes it has created"
This is true for simple viruses but not for the more advanced wich will try anything to hides it presence, e.g. naming itself to important processes like svchost or even write itself into other previously harmless processes. Also it might behave more like a Fork bomb and create several processes and as soon you kill one it is activated again by the other processes.

"it is just a matter of cleaning up the files it had created"
How easy you make it sound, just for sport lets assume the virus never created its own file instead it used already existing files to store information or even important system files. how would you counter that?

"A firewall helps too since viruses often try to download spyware and make you comp even more messed up, a firewall would keep it isolated."
What hinders a more advanced virus to simply open up holes in the fire wall. The only way to make sure a virus is isolated is to sever all connections wich leads to the internet.

He said that the only reason the 'scan computer' thingy is there on the anti virus programs was so the user would feel 'safer' I couldnt translate this any better so it'll have to due.

Neither I nor KID_IS_BACK have claimed such a thing, you really should read what we have said more thoroughly.

An Antivirus Application is far from useless and is used to scan files for known malware and hinder users from opening infected files in the first place. If the AV should fail to detect or the user ignore the warnings, the malware gets its chance to infect the system.
If the user is using an admin account the virus can do anything it want with the system files (in other words you're screwed) , if the user instead was using a normal account a virus may be stopped dead in its tracks unless it can exploit any security holes.

What KID_IS_BACK and I is trying to say is that a virus that has manage to corrupt an OS is almost impossible to get rid of as ANY application must tell the OS to get information from the hardware, and as the malware has corrupted the OS with its own code all information regarding infected files will simply be altered of ignored, thus the AV cannot detect anything and the system is reported as clean.
Using a Live CD to scan for this type of malware is the only way of detecting it but even that it won't help against brand new malware.
Actually the biggest problem not the malware itself but all the problems and security holes left after the infection wich can be exploited in the future, and fixing all that is far more complex and time consuming then formatting and reinstalling the OS.

Now far from all malwares behaves like this but would you risk personal information like email addresses, phone numbers, bank information and very private pictures on that the malware and the security holes MAYBE gone?

 

[ceewi1]

I've read through the article with Google Translate, and while it hasn't all translated perfectly, I think I've gotten the gist of it.

KID_IS_BACK says that a virus, once installed, can intercept calls to the Windows API from a running process and manipulate the results (e.g. hide itself from an antivirus scan). This is quite possible, and a very real threat. Basically, what he's describing is a rootkit. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit for more info. Most infections do not include rootkits, however, and many security programs include features to detect and remove rootkits (although this is a much more difficult task than detecting and removing a regular virus). There are also a number of specialist tools designed to target rootkits.

The second claim being made, as far as I can tell, is that a virus can allow an attacker to gain access to the system and make other modifications such that even if the infection itself is removed the system remains compromised. This is another real threat known as a backdoor trojan. See http://www.geekstogo.com/2007/10/03/what-is-a-backdoor-trojan/. If I find one of these on someone's system I will generally recommend reformatting.

Are these threats real? Yes. Do they represent the majority of infections? No. The majority of infections can be removed without too many problems either by using software such as an anti-virus, or by using some more complicated tools and removal methods as we do on these forums. In some cases, formatting is the safest option. Recommending a format to deal with all virus infections is, I think, going overboard in the extreme.

 

[Cooto3s]

Neither I nor KID_IS_BACK have claimed such a thing, you really should read what we have said more thoroughly.

"ger det en känsla av trygghet. Bra marknadsföring, helt enkelt."

Translated through the google translator:

give it a sense of security. Good marketing, simply.

 

[TheViper]

I've read through the article with Google Translate, and while it hasn't all translated perfectly, I think I've gotten the gist of it.

KID_IS_BACK says that a virus, once installed, can intercept calls to the Windows API from a running process and manipulate the results (e.g. hide itself from an antivirus scan). This is quite possible, and a very real threat. Basically, what he's describing is a rootkit. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit for more info. Most infections do not include rootkits, however, and many security programs include features to detect and remove rootkits (although this is a much more difficult task than detecting and removing a regular virus). There are also a number of specialist tools designed to target rootkits.

The second claim being made, as far as I can tell, is that a virus can allow an attacker to gain access to the system and make other modifications such that even if the infection itself is removed the system remains compromised. This is another real threat known as a backdoor trojan. See http://www.geekstogo.com/2007/10/03/what-is-a-backdoor-trojan/. If I find one of these on someone's system I will generally recommend reformatting.

Are these threats real? Yes. Do they represent the majority of infections? No. The majority of infections can be removed without too many problems either by using software such as an anti-virus, or by using some more complicated tools and removal methods as we do on these forums. In some cases, formatting is the safest option. Recommending a format to deal with all virus infections is, I think, going overboard in the extreme.

Even if an infection is easily removed I would still recommend formatting in most cases, especially if the user has not opened any suspicious files. As if this small infection could find its way in, the computers security must be seriously compromised and who knows all other more serious malware that maybe hiding.

Is it not also true that the root kit viruses and other more sophisticated virus designed to hide its presence and steal information has become much more common in later time?

"ger det en känsla av trygghet. Bra marknadsföring, helt enkelt."

Translated through the google translator:

give it a sense of security. Good marketing, simply.

He is talking about the desinfection tools not that antivirus softwares scan functions.

 

[gamerman4]

You would find it very true if you read little about the computers architecture, I am sure your local library has much to teach you on that subject.

The creator of the guide on why it is important to reformat a computer failed to specify that only certain (and a very small majority) of viruses actually can do this. My assumption (and probably his assumption) was that his guide was about any virus (or at least most) and that is an ignorant statement.

This is true for simple viruses but not for the more advanced wich will try anything to hides it presence, e.g. naming itself to important processes like svchost or even write itself into other previously harmless processes. Also it might behave more like a Fork bomb and create several processes and as soon you kill one it is activated again by the other processes.

Ending multiple processes is not much harder than ending one. A virus that names itself the same as a system file usually has very obvious way of telling it is a virus ,svchost for example usually occupies around the same amount of RAM for all of its processes save one or two that use a bit more. If it manages to create a decent memory footprint, it can usually be detected in other ways.

How easy you make it sound, just for sport lets assume the virus never created its own file instead it used already existing files to store information or even important system files. how would you counter that?

How easy you make that to answer. As long as you don't restart your computer, a virus cannot imprint itself inside your system files. Windows locks important files from being able to be modified, a computer restart opens up the kernel upon booting (like being able to edit or delete anything in safe mode.) If it is inside of a different file, just delete it, if it is a system file, replace it. If the virus somehow made it past the kernel protection then going into safe mode and replace the infected file. If safe mode doesn't work use BartPE (or any other liveCD that can write to NTFS)

What hinders a more advanced virus to simply open up holes in the fire wall. The only way to make sure a virus is isolated is to sever all connections wich leads to the internet.

What hinders you by thinking that all viruses can do that? Probably more than %90 of the viruses that are able to infect Windows XP SP3 and Vista SP1 are minor and usually easily removed, most the of critical security hole in Windows have been closed and I'm sure a good firewall would lock its own process from being modified from the outside (my firewall can't even be opened or accessed even by remote access software.) Routers also have very good firewalls that protect you and they can't be modified by just corrupting your OS.

So your assumption is that we should all believe any virus can do all of this just so we don't risk it? Unless you run a data-critical business (which if you did better be secure that no viruses ever can get on them) then I would clean my computer of the virus rather than reformatting every time some tiny harmless virus gets on my comp. For the record, my computer has never had a virus, ever and all I have is a firewall on my router (using a dd-wrt router) and on my computer. AV software just slows down file access, and yes I know that my computer is virus free, I don't need AV software to tell me that.

 

[Cooto3s]

He is talking about the desinfection tools not that antivirus softwares scan functions.

It's all the same.. It's still stupid saying that the only reason the disinfection feature is there is so that the user feels safer.