First thing in building a PC... Give it a heart!

Kristodian

New Member
Hello everybody! I heard that if you want to start building your own system, you need to begin from processor.
I will be creating discussions ( beginner friendly ) about every PC part, so any beginners are welcome to hop aboard! =)
I had a little research done to learn the basic knowledge about processors and how to pick them, but still got some unanswered questions. With forum members help, I would like to build the most logical way of choosing processor that will be accepted easily and with understanding even to people who start from 0.

I will start from what I know and then leaven some questions for you guys.

Main Text

I have learned, from reading guides and other forums that the first thing to choose, if planning to build your own PC, is the heart - the processor because... well... It does the most important and biggest job of calculating sequences! The speed of those calculations counts in GHz , the more, the better (obviously). To speed up things, processors are getting built with different amounts of channels that the calculations will pass through, they are called "cores". I know that with Intel manufacturer the amount of cores from the product can be learned from the title by looking at representing characters i3 (2 cores) / i5 (2-4 cores) / i7 (4-6 cores). There is a common though that the more cores your processor has the faster your computer will be (faster games and programs) , but it is not always true, as some developers are not optimizing their products to use those cores ( so they basically stand without work ). Programs that use all the cores are usually graphical programs like 3Dmax and many other graphical programs. If you would like to play modern games I would recommend using not less than i5.

I have also heard that there is something that virtually doubles the processor cores but sadly my knowledge of processor cores is limited here.
There is one more important thing about processor speed quality that Ive learned on other forum, it is the architecture it self! Guys there convinced me that Intel architecture is best. My knowledge on AMD is minimum because of that.


Edit (31/08/15) (Beginner important !!!)
It is important to know what kind of socket your chosen processor uses on the motherboard, because if it will not be the same, you may have to get a refund/change of the motherboard.
This knowledge about sockets is enough for not making a mistake while building your own PC. More advanced knowledge is not relevant for building a stable system.
If you are looking to know more advanced info you can always search online for frequency and bus frequency.

Edit (07/09/15) (Beginner friendly)
While I don't know how common this mistake is, at first I thought that the term "processor" is applied towards the chip + heatsink + fan. This could be a problem for me building my system. But thanks to some helpful tips and guides I've realized that I was so foolish :p. As the processor/CPU it self is only the flat chip that is put in the sockets, on the motherboard, that I've mentioned earlier . (In the future I will create a separate thread about cooling).
There are 2 types of available for purchase processors:
Boxed = The CPU comes with manufacturer added cooling (usually comes in colorful packages with logos on it)
Tray = OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturers) products are meant to be purchased by others companies that build their own systems or other related businesses. (usually comes in not too exciting packages, like polystyrene trays) Most of the times sold in numbers.

The price difference of the same CPU, boxed or tray, will be not that big... Approximately 5-10 $ not more. Of course the more CPUs you buy (from the manufacturer him self!) the bigger discount you will get, but if you are not planning to build 10+ systems it is not worth it, and even for your own PC, 5-10$ will not be worth the headache if you are an unexperienced builder.
There is an exception! Sometimes stores do discounts that could drop the price of a boxed CPU lower then the manufacturer tray CPU, because they buy lots of them for 15-30 % and sometimes sell boxed processors cheaper then their tray brothers. It is wise to browse store websites or call them to ask if any discount is available for your chosen CPU.
You should also know that you will not get a full warranty for a tray processor (you can get a short warranty from the store/lab which is measured by weeks/months only. But this is still very optional and needs to be confirmed before purchase) like you will get for a retail/boxed one. (usually between 1-5 years) + tech support.
Also notice that the fans that usually come with a boxed CPU greatly fit all the CPUs needs. BUT...
If you are planning to overclock your CPU, you should think of purchasing a more effective fan or water cooling. Replacing boxed CPUs fan may result in ending of your warranty! For us, beginners, it is obvious which product we should choose.

Be very cautious if you are buying your hardware while on travels or second-hand. Also if ordering online, look for warranty and contact details of the merchant (It is recommended to contact the merchant before the actual purchase).

p.s. I will edit , add or remove things based on my progressive studying.

Questions

1)How do processors work? (Answer found)
2)Should I learn more about AMD manufacturer? (even if I'm not limiting my budget, if it is worth my time)
Edit (31/08/15)
3)What are sockets? (Answer found) All the needed information you need about processor sockets for system build is in the edited main text.
4)What is the difference between boxed and tray processors? (Answer found) All the needed information you need about the purchasing options for processor is in the edited main text.
 
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Kristodian

New Member
I will post once a while updates and more questions, and in the end I will edit the thread for more easier info consumption. I hope to make it as easy as possible for even most green guys to figure out by them selfs what do they want from their future processor. I hope that with our powers and knowledge combined we can make a really decent guide! =)
 

C4C

Well-Known Member
There's definitely a lot more to learn. But there's also a basic guide already created somewhere as a sticky.. You might want to inquire about updating it but I don't think creating a new one is necessary.

Great work though!

The processor is kind of like a brain.. The PSU/Motherboard, the heart since everything is powered and runs through it..
 

Kristodian

New Member
Yeah, the point is that I read many different guides in 3 different languages... There are differences...
I will look for the guide on this forum too, but the whole point is that I want to create an easy way to memorize and choose what is important + recomendations for manufacturers , prices , good and not good hardware combinations and etc... I see that not that lots of people were interested in the thread, but I will continue it for a while

Il throw in another question
Q) whats the difference between different types of sockets?
 

tylerjrb

Member
Socket type is dependant on the CPU manufacturer and the CPU itself. The socket type is designed to fit different cpu's so an LGA1155 Motherboard will have 1155 contact pins or pads and will only fit a LGA1155 processor, so a LGA775 or LGA2011 socket processor will not fit.

If you search for a processor it will say the processors socket type, that socket type has to match the motherboard exactly or the processor will not be compatible. so for instance an intel core i7 4770k is a LGA1150 processor, this will only fit a LGA1150 motherboard. AMD's FX-8350 is a AM3+ socket and will only fit a AM3+ socket motherboard.
 

Kristodian

New Member
Socket type is dependant on the CPU manufacturer and the CPU itself. The socket type is designed to fit different cpu's so an LGA1155 Motherboard will have 1155 contact pins or pads and will only fit a LGA1155 processor, so a LGA775 or LGA2011 socket processor will not fit.

If you search for a processor it will say the processors socket type, that socket type has to match the motherboard exactly or the processor will not be compatible. so for instance an intel core i7 4770k is a LGA1150 processor, this will only fit a LGA1150 motherboard. AMD's FX-8350 is a AM3+ socket and will only fit a AM3+ socket motherboard.
So basically the next thing to look for after a processor is the motherboard? (motherboards are a deep empty space in my knowledge).

I viewed both AMD and Intel's socket lists and a little info about their properties. I'm starting to understand now their hierarchy (Intel's 1151 is an upgrade of 1150 for example, it was less difficult then i first thought), but all the necessary detail you may want to know are in "CPU socket lists" found all over the internet including more advanced knowledge, like their frequencies.
The conclusion I have right now is that no processor can fit different type of sockets, which makes this part very critical in beginners knowledge at building own systems.
 

beers

Moderator
Staff member
So basically the next thing to look for after a processor is the motherboard? (motherboards are a deep empty space in my knowledge).
You basically pick the platform you want, once you know which CPU series you want then you buy an appropriate board with the features you want/need.
 

Kristodian

New Member
You basically pick the platform you want, once you know which CPU series you want then you buy an appropriate board with the features you want/need.
Yes right! We already know that. I've updated the main text. I meant that if the motherboard is recommended as the second part of PC in building it? Sometime later I will create the same discussion/guide thread about motherboards and eventually all the other PC parts.

Another question.
I know that processors come in 2 different ways
1)Box
2)Tray
Boxed processors come with its own cooling system (changeable?). Boxed processors are more expensive then its Tray cousins.
Tray processors come without any cooling systems.
Can anybody confirm that?
The question is what is the difference in preformance possibilities and what are recommendations from more experienced PC builders
 

voyagerfan99

Master of Turning Things Off and Back On Again
Staff member
You're not an OEM, so you'd never buy a tray of processors. That would cost you thousands of dollars.
 

Kristodian

New Member
That wasn't very clear by the wording of your question :p



That should really be 'Box' or 'Retail' and 'OEM'. Box usually come with heatsinks and/or other accessories, OEM usually are just the processor.
Okay, good to know. But what if one want to build his own water cooling system, or change the fan for a stronger one? I named it "Box" and "Tray" from what I've seen on the catalogs, I've never seen Retail or OEM anywhere... strange.
 

voyagerfan99

Master of Turning Things Off and Back On Again
Staff member
You can do whatever you want for cooling no matter what option you go with. The CPU is not affixed to the heatsink. They're two separate components.

Most of the time CPU's are sold as retail with a box and heatsink, but you can also buy them OEM (just the processor) and it may save you a bit of money.
 

Kristodian

New Member
You can do whatever you want for cooling no matter what option you go with. The CPU is not affixed to the heatsink. They're two separate components.

Most of the time CPU's are sold as retail with a box and heatsink, but you can also buy them OEM (just the processor) and it may save you a bit of money.
I get it, all of them are available to modify! I still think that custom cooling is like dark matter to me :D. I will research about it later in time. I've made a conclusion that difference in the price between Boxed and Tray processors is too small (mere dollars) , so if you are not sure what to do with a processor without cooling , do not buy Tray processor. Approved?
Isn't heatsinks sold together with the CPU? (I know its dumb, but I've just realized that CPU is only a small chip under the heatsink (I always thought that the processor is all the block with the chip+heatsink+fan... I've made a discovery today thanks to you :cool:)
 

voyagerfan99

Master of Turning Things Off and Back On Again
Staff member
CPU stands for Central Processing Unit. It's the entire die that makes up the processor. The heatsink is its own entity.
 

tylerjrb

Member
Boxed processor's (retail) usually come with a longer warranty period than OEM ones aswell. Intel usually dont mind about warranty anyway to be honest and are a very good RMA company.

The processor comes by itself or with a heatsink. The processor itself is a small die and then a IHS (integrated heat spreader) fitted ontop, this is to spread the heat out that the die is producing and not just focus it into one spot. It is also to protect the die so it doesnt get crushed.

There are holes on the motherboard in a square formation where the heasink can clip in via pegs or a backplate can be fitted to the rear of the motherboard and the heatsink bolted on. The heatsink presses onto the IHS of the processor with thermal paste fitted inbetween to fill the airgap. The heatsink is there to remove the heat the processor is producing to keep it from overheating and becoming damaged.

People usually use aftermarket heatsinks and coolers, air cooled and watercooled aswell. These are far superior to the intel standard cooler. Thus keeping the chip cooler, This allows more overclocking potential. The reasoning for this is because overclocked the chip runs faster, runs on more voltage and uses more power and creates more heat. The standard intel cooler might not be able to shift the heat fast enough whereas a better aftermarket cooler will.
 

Kristodian

New Member
Boxed processor's (retail) usually come with a longer warranty period than OEM ones aswell. Intel usually dont mind about warranty anyway to be honest and are a very good RMA company.

The processor comes by itself or with a heatsink. The processor itself is a small die and then a IHS (integrated heat spreader) fitted ontop, this is to spread the heat out that the die is producing and not just focus it into one spot. It is also to protect the die so it doesnt get crushed.

There are holes on the motherboard in a square formation where the heasink can clip in via pegs or a backplate can be fitted to the rear of the motherboard and the heatsink bolted on. The heatsink presses onto the IHS of the processor with thermal paste fitted inbetween to fill the airgap. The heatsink is there to remove the heat the processor is producing to keep it from overheating and becoming damaged.

People usually use aftermarket heatsinks and coolers, air cooled and watercooled aswell. These are far superior to the intel standard cooler. Thus keeping the chip cooler, This allows more overclocking potential. The reasoning for this is because overclocked the chip runs faster, runs on more voltage and uses more power and creates more heat. The standard intel cooler might not be able to shift the heat fast enough whereas a better aftermarket cooler will.
This is a very valuable information. I will add this to the main text. Thank you.
 

tylerjrb

Member
i7's can also be 8 cores like the 5960x. Hyperthreaded to 16 threads. You can also get xeons which are 18 core (being the highest), 36 threads lol.

Noticed you didnt have anything about hyperthreading :).
AMD currently does not have hyper threading which allows each core to process up to 2 threads at a time (intel only). Cores without hyperthreading only execute 1 thread at a time. A core has a constant pipeline effectively of workloads. A core without H/T can only complete 1 task at a time, so it completes a task next one is fed into it, completes it and another task is fed and so on. Usually not all the execution resources are used as each task uses different resouces. Hyperthreading allows the core to use those spare execution resources to complete another thread at the same time. Aslong as it has the spare resources to do so.

Its much more beneficial for multi-threaded workloads where yields can be 20-30% but for single core use its much lower, also OS and software dependant aswell. Also more beneficial with a cpu with more cores like the Xeon's, and less beneficial with say a dual core cpu. Its not like having double the core count but it is faster and more beneficial than a cpu without hyperthreading.
 
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C4C

Well-Known Member
i7's can also be 8 cores like the 5960x. Hyperthreaded to 16 threads. You can also get xeons which are 18 core (being the highest), 36 threads lol.

Noticed you didnt have anything about hyperthreading :).
AMD currently does not have hyper threading which allows each core to process up to 2 threads at a time (intel only). Cores without hyperthreading only execute 1 thread at a time. A core has a constant pipeline effectively of workloads. A core without H/T can only complete 1 task at a time, so it completes a task next one is fed into it, completes it and another task is fed and so on. Usually not all the execution resources are used as each task uses different resouces. Hyperthreading allows the core to use those spare execution resources to complete another thread at the same time. Aslong as it has the spare resources to do so.

Its much more beneficial for multi-threaded workloads where yields can be 20-30% but for single core use its much lower, also OS and software dependant aswell. Also more beneficial with a cpu with more cores like the Xeon's, and less beneficial with say a dual core cpu. Its not like having double the core count but it is faster and more beneficial than a cpu without hyperthreading.

It's a mouthful but pretty much. My 8-core AMD is about as good as a mid level Core i5 but when I render stuff it performs better.
 
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