I hardly see any threads about MACs in here.
- Thread starter PHATSPEED7x
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Kill Bill
Active Member
today the standard on mac pro is 8 core
tlarkin
VIP Member
Why gaming code is not optimized for such processors and besides Xeons aren't filled with multi media driven instruction sets. They are more pure horse power than anything. I don't see it out performing a Core 2 duo by leaps and bounds because the coding is not written for such a processor, and by design server processors are meant to handle many tasks and services at once.
I would be curious to see how it pans out, but for pure cost sake they are way over pried for gaming. heck, a Xeon processor by itself is in the $700 range for just one processor.
Which is why we were talking about dual quad core Xeons, which would total 8 cores, but still only be 4 cores per a processor.
gamerman4
Active Member
I would much rather have a higher performance computer than one with a million bells and whistles that I never use.
Don't need SMS sensor - I don't drop my laptop
don't need bluetooth - my cell phone doesnt even have BT
I have at least ABG wireless
I have a media remote for my desktop, where its practical
Ummm USB? seriosuly? thats a Mac only feature? wow...
Firewire - doesn't account for exaggerated price
webcam - doesnt account for the exaggerated price
every feature you mentioned is trivial aside from the LED LCD
its all standard stuff that comes with any sub-$1000 laptop (other than the SMS, which i seriously hope u dont need)
I would rather keep my $450 with an LCD screen than a $1500 with an LED LCD.
Your screen real estate = your resolution
I would rather have a 20" Computer monitor over a 50" 720P LCD TV
Specifically talking about resolution though, a 24" monitor is better than a 17" monitor of the same res but it doesn't excuse the fact that they still have the same res and thus the same capacity for workspace.
Also, just because they are higher "quality" doesn't mean they don't break. My friend has a macbook pro that is less than 1 year old that just intermittently shuts down for no reason.
Also, since "quality" is an opinion, it is an added price for no reason.
Quote:
"If every system were simply judged on processor, RAM, video card, and storage capacity then people wouldn't care about software and other features. "
But that's how computers ARE judged. What do you think almost every person on this forum puts in their sig?
CPU, RAM, Vid Card, and storage space.
I'm not a PC fanboy, I just state what I see and Macs are overpriced, I'm not saying they are bad, they are great computers, I would get one if I had nothing else to spend the money on, because they are.......overpriced.
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tlarkin
VIP Member
Ok, but stop skewing the price, that comes with the $1099 price tag, not the $1500. Firewire is a constant speed and much more reliable than USB, which is burst speed. ABGN wireless allows to connect to all radios. We run 802.11 A exclusively on my work network because we don't want tons of rogue connections. So, there is a security plus in that and we aren't the only networks that do this. If you just have B/G then you have to buy a third party card. BT and the webcam are super handy. I transfer files from cell phone and blackberry to my Macbook Pro all the time back and forth. It is a feature I use, does not apply to you apparently. SMS isn't just for when you drop your laptop, there are many applications for it. iAlertU is a prime and excellent example of how the SMS is used for application and how the remote is more than just a media remote, and it shows how the camera is more than just a thing to take pictures with. To say that there is no application for it is ignorant and short sighted. There are plenty and iAlertU just happens to be the best example of how the camera, the SMS sensor, and the remote can all function as additional features in third party application.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ojR_qrMy0&feature=related
http://ialertu.en.softonic.com/mac
No not really, 17 inches versus 24 inches is night and day difference, and that was the point I was making when you were trying to compare the 24" iMac to a PC laptop.
Who says they didn't? where did I say that they don't break? Hell, Porsche's break down all the time, as well as BMW and every other expensive car you can buy. I had a German sports car a few years ago and it was freaking awesome, but it cost me an arm and a leg every time it broke down and it broke down probably almost at the same frequency as my piece of crap American Jeep that always ran like crap. The difference was, my German car ran like a champ when it ran, while my Jeep just always ran like crap and was way cheaper and easier to fix when things broke.
I will have to disagree. Products and technology in general are judged on Price, quality, features and benefits. Obviously you have no need for BT, ABGN wireless, web cam, etc. So, those will not benefit you, so you ignore them. Someone who wants those features and will benefit from them will look at something that has them standard, so they can use it as is out of the box with out having to install a bunch of extra crap or carry around extra hardware with their laptops. People put their specs in their sig to show off and brag, it is more of a status thing than anything else.
Over priced compared to what? Build a Dell laptop spec for spec versus a Macbook and a Macbook pro, and you will see that the Mac is cheaper sometimes. Go build a dual quad-core Xeon Dell desktop, Apple's Mac Pros are generally $200 cheaper than those. You can't compare a Macbook to your $450 laptop, because a Macbook is in a different league of laptops.
gamerman4
Active Member
When did I say Dells weren't overpriced? I will go and check it out though. I can build a "Hackintosh" for under $1000 that would kill the $2000 iMac.
Also I said $1500 because thats an estimate about what it would cost to have a macbook with the same performance specs as my laptop but with the LED LCD and other things.
tlarkin
VIP Member
No, the LED LCD screen is standard in ALL mac laptops. That is why they are a bit more expensive, because they all have higher end parts that are standard.
Build your "hackintosh" and compare it to a 24" iMac and make sure you build it the same way the iMac is built, with all the features.
I think you are arguing the fact that Apple puts features on their machines that you wouldn't want or use, and you think they are over priced because there is no option to get a stripped down model. That is how Apple does business. While, I agree and they should offer a barebones type mid tower, but they don't. Therefore, you can't say that they are over priced but they are just not geared towards how you would use a computer.
They design it so out of the box you can do the following, and they are good at it:
-sync cell phone w/ contacts, calendars, music + other media, etc
-edit video
-record and master audio
-author a DVD
-connect to any type of camera and organize your photos and build a photo library
-automate any task with automator to make it more effeicient
-create calendars and appointments which can tie in to just about anything
-all in one pretty looking 3D driven desktop environment
Now, that is not to say they are not with out fault. They do break and they do have their faults.
Now sure you can cut corners and build a computer that may be similar to an iMac but you couldn't build an iMac spec for spec and it be a ton cheaper either. My point is, that they aren't over priced, they are just high end because they all those features that you may or may not want. Personally, I like them because out of the box I can sync my cell phone contact instantly to my computer, and the use the BT in my laptop to make phone calls and send text messages by using my laptop. It will use the built in speakers and microphone and I can make phone calls and send text message right from my laptop and don't have to have some crappy ear piece in my ear, or have the cell phone up to my brain slowly giving me cancer.
gamerman4
Active Member
I will go to newegg, dell, and apple websites and find out what I can get (performance-wise because I like speed) for a budget of $2500, software and extras stuff like mice and KBs included. I'm not going to do it now because this argument really isn't a big issue for me but I think it will be fun.
tlarkin
VIP Member
I wouldn't call it an argument, more of a debate. Either way, you aren't going to be able to build one spec for spec and make it cheaper. Trust me I have tried many times. They are typically all around the same price give or take, and if you are lucky and get lots of rebates then they are cheaper.
The only and cheapest LCD LED back lit monitor I saw on newegg is like $500 and it is only for a 22". Just to give you an idea.
gamerman4
Active Member
lol, i would call a debate pretty much an intellectual argument.
I said spec for performance as well as obvious feature (LED LCD is not an obvious feature that everyone would actually care about or even know it existed) and also, it wont be spec-for-spec, it will be what I get for the price (i set it at $2500 because that is a huge price and will guarantee high end). An LED LCD is just as good as a high-quality normal LCD when it comes to what matters most (refresh rate and color accuracy). Also, their LCDs aren't uber great, the iMacs in my college lab have slight bad colors from any angle except directly in front (blues turn more and more green as you look at it from an angle.)
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Kill Bill
Active Member
Any monitor you look at from an angle will have an effect
gamerman4
Active Member
OLED displays (of the ones i've seen) look no different from an angle. Good LCDs may get brighter from the side but the colors should stay the same or relatively close.
gamerman4
Active Member
Alright:
~$2500 budget
Dell
XPS 630
final price: $2469
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Q9550 (12MB,2.83GHz, 1333FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate
MEMORY 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 640GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW
MONITORS 24 inch UltraSharp™ 2408WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD nVidia GeForce 9800 GT 512MB
SOUND CARD Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeGamer
SPEAKERS Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
KEYBOARD Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard
MOUSE Dell Premium Optical USB Mouse
Apple
iMac
$2499
PROCESSOR: 2.8Ghz C2D
OPERATING SYSTEM: OSX Leopard
MEMORY: 4GB DDR2-800
HARD DRIVE: 750GB
OPTICAL DRIVE: 8x DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW
MONITORS: 24" LCD
VIDEO CARD: 8800GS
SOUND CARD: integrated 2 channel
SPEAKERS: integrated 2.1 (i assume its 2.1)
KEYBOARD: mac keyboard
MOUSE: mac wired mouse
Newegg.com
Price: $2506
PROCESSOR: 2 x Quad-core Xeon E5430 (2.66Ghz)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Vista Ultimate 64-bit
MEMORY:12GB DDR2-800 (6 x 2GB)
HARD DRIVE: Seagate 500GB HDD 32MB cache
OPTICAL DRIVE: LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
MONITORS: 24" Acer P243W
VIDEO CARD: 8800GT
SOUND CARD: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE
SPEAKERS: Creative Inspire T3100
KEYBOARD: Rosewill Super Slim KB
MOUSE: Logitech LX7 wireless
MOTHERBOARD: TYAN S5375AG2NR Server Motherboard
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 500W
CASE: Antec 300
And just for kicks:
ibuypower.com
$2489
PROCESSOR: Q9650 (3Ghz Quad)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Vista Ultimate 64-bit
MEMORY: 8GB DDR3-1333 (6 x 2GB)
HARD DRIVE: 1TB HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE: LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
MONITORS: Sceptre 24" LCD
VIDEO CARD: Radeon 4850
SOUND CARD: Onboard 7.1
SPEAKERS: 60watt 2.1 speakers
KEYBOARD: Logitech Deluxe Keyboard
MOUSE: Logitech Optical
MOTHERBOARD: GB DS3R P45
PSU: 600Watt PSU
CASE: Raidmax Tornado
Synopsis:
The Mac has less raw power for the price.
The Dell is not much better than the Mac, it has a Quad core CPU, lil bit less HDD, and a slightly better gfx card.
ibuypower fared very well, it is an excellent gaming PC with a Quad-core cpu 8GB RAM and 1TB hdd.
The custom build is a processing monster, it easily can be compared to the Mac Pro. Now whether that server mobo supports non-ECC RAM or not is another matter and if need be I can go find one that does or just find ECC registered RAM.
The Dell and Mac are overpriced with the Dell having a better CPU for the price.
The custom build and ibuypower are great for their price and if you want to add bluetooth, firewire, and a webcam, you can shave off about $100-$200 for that and still have a much better system than the Dell or Mac.
My build only included the OS as software (and for Vista, the most expensive OS). because software doesn't add features because there are tons of free software that does most things just as well as their commercial counterparts. Also, where possible, I used only name brands that are known for quality and reliable parts. Also, that is a lot of stuff so if I made a mistake, tell me.
~$2500 budget
Dell
XPS 630
final price: $2469
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Q9550 (12MB,2.83GHz, 1333FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate
MEMORY 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 640GB Serial ATA Hard Drive
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW
MONITORS 24 inch UltraSharp™ 2408WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
VIDEO CARD nVidia GeForce 9800 GT 512MB
SOUND CARD Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeGamer
SPEAKERS Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
KEYBOARD Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard
MOUSE Dell Premium Optical USB Mouse
Apple
iMac
$2499
PROCESSOR: 2.8Ghz C2D
OPERATING SYSTEM: OSX Leopard
MEMORY: 4GB DDR2-800
HARD DRIVE: 750GB
OPTICAL DRIVE: 8x DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW
MONITORS: 24" LCD
VIDEO CARD: 8800GS
SOUND CARD: integrated 2 channel
SPEAKERS: integrated 2.1 (i assume its 2.1)
KEYBOARD: mac keyboard
MOUSE: mac wired mouse
Newegg.com
Price: $2506
PROCESSOR: 2 x Quad-core Xeon E5430 (2.66Ghz)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Vista Ultimate 64-bit
MEMORY:12GB DDR2-800 (6 x 2GB)
HARD DRIVE: Seagate 500GB HDD 32MB cache
OPTICAL DRIVE: LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
MONITORS: 24" Acer P243W
VIDEO CARD: 8800GT
SOUND CARD: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE
SPEAKERS: Creative Inspire T3100
KEYBOARD: Rosewill Super Slim KB
MOUSE: Logitech LX7 wireless
MOTHERBOARD: TYAN S5375AG2NR Server Motherboard
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 500W
CASE: Antec 300
And just for kicks:
ibuypower.com
$2489
PROCESSOR: Q9650 (3Ghz Quad)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Vista Ultimate 64-bit
MEMORY: 8GB DDR3-1333 (6 x 2GB)
HARD DRIVE: 1TB HDD
OPTICAL DRIVE: LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
MONITORS: Sceptre 24" LCD
VIDEO CARD: Radeon 4850
SOUND CARD: Onboard 7.1
SPEAKERS: 60watt 2.1 speakers
KEYBOARD: Logitech Deluxe Keyboard
MOUSE: Logitech Optical
MOTHERBOARD: GB DS3R P45
PSU: 600Watt PSU
CASE: Raidmax Tornado
Synopsis:
The Mac has less raw power for the price.
The Dell is not much better than the Mac, it has a Quad core CPU, lil bit less HDD, and a slightly better gfx card.
ibuypower fared very well, it is an excellent gaming PC with a Quad-core cpu 8GB RAM and 1TB hdd.
The custom build is a processing monster, it easily can be compared to the Mac Pro. Now whether that server mobo supports non-ECC RAM or not is another matter and if need be I can go find one that does or just find ECC registered RAM.
The Dell and Mac are overpriced with the Dell having a better CPU for the price.
The custom build and ibuypower are great for their price and if you want to add bluetooth, firewire, and a webcam, you can shave off about $100-$200 for that and still have a much better system than the Dell or Mac.
My build only included the OS as software (and for Vista, the most expensive OS). because software doesn't add features because there are tons of free software that does most things just as well as their commercial counterparts. Also, where possible, I used only name brands that are known for quality and reliable parts. Also, that is a lot of stuff so if I made a mistake, tell me.
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Ramodkk
VIP Member
I agree, but Macs show it more IMO. At school we have some iMac's and being in Illustrator, say you have a white cirlce, it looks literally brown from an angle...
Roncharlespatton
banned
macs blow big chunks!
tlarkin
VIP Member
How can you compare it then with out building it spec for spec? It is obviously not a comparison at all. LED back lit monitors are catching on and they are even using them in TVs now. It may as well soon be a standard. They use up less power, look brilliant, and of course there is no mercury in them.
You aren't comparing them you are just creating a shopping list of computer parts. Comparing them would be trying to build or buy an iMac or all-in-one PC and then comparing the features and benefits versus the price.
All the new Macs also come with Firewire 800, blue tooth 2.0 EDR, built in ABGN wireless (yes the iMac has built in wireless), HDMI video out. Plus it is like 1" thick and takes up very little space. These are features consumers want. Consumers don't want to build a computer they want to buy a computer.
Your comparison at best is just a way to spend money and no where near comparing how to get a PC just like an iMac for the same price.
gamerman4
Active Member
You missed the point of what I did, It is not the price you get for the machine, it is the machine you get for the price. Aesthetics aside, a Mac is pretty overpriced. Who cares about mercury, an LED backlight looks good but its not a showstopper EIZO only just released a monitor with an LED backlight and their main reason was more for power consumption than light conformity, Firewire isn't an absolute necessity (neither is it all that expensive, HDMI is extremely easy to get with any computer now, either with a DVI-HDMI adapter or a computer that supports HDMI natively, Bluetooth is an inexpensive feature, size is only a feature for those that want it to be, Gigabit ethernet is nice but many new NICs have it so its not Mac-specific, as far as i could tell the Remote is an additional part that doesnt necessarily come with it. It's the things you can't easily add or change that make a computer worth the initial price you pay for it. A CPU is not just something you go to walmart and buy for $10 and plug it in, a CPU is one of the most important things in a computer. If I were a video editor I'd rather have a computer that doesn't have built in firewire but a fast CPU than a slower CPU but built-in firewire.
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tlarkin
VIP Member
No I understand your point and agree with you on some level. You are ignoring what I am saying, which is you can't come close to building an iMac out of the same parts it has retail, therefore they are not over priced. You on the other hand, ignored that completely, and went with the idea that you can build something better for cheaper. I agree, you can, because when you build you can cut corners like not adding ABGN wireless, LED LCD screens, or BT. I am saying when you add all of that up part for part retail the Mac is generally the same price or a bit cheaper.
They aren't over priced they just use high end parts. So, it is you that is totally missing the original point, when I said show me how you can build an iMac and have it cheaper. You didn't do that at all, you just built a desktop. You also didn't cite any of your resources with links, but I of course took your word for it.
Last time I tried to build a Mac with the exact parts that a Mac would have out of the box they came out more expensive. When I built it off newegg or custom ordered it from Dell.