Finally going for a custom loop

salvage-this

Active Member
Hey everyone. I have been reading a lot of guides on liquid systems and I want to make the jump to a full custom loop. I'll probably take on the project in a few months when I get my tax return back. For now I want to get some opinions on what to use as well as how to set it up.

As of now here are the parts that I am pretty set on.

CPU - Apogee HD

Reservoir - MCRES Micro Rev2 Reservoir

I want a triple 120mm mounted in the top of the 800D with maybe another 120/140 in back. I would use my 3 of my existing Scythe Gentile Typhoon fans in a pull config for the triple 120 rad in the top and some other fan in back whenever I decide on a size.

For now I can't get a full cover block for my 560TI since I have the Twin Frozr 2 design. So I haven't decided if I want to run that on air till I go for a GPU upgrade or if I want to try to use a universal GPU block and put smaller heat spreaders on the VRAM and VRMs.

I have no idea what pump to use so a bit of help there would be much appreciated :D

Right now I am fairly comfortable with spending 250-300 on this. It's something that I have wanted to do for a long time now.

Just some general questions on this...

1. When building a new system, can you transfer most of the parts over to the new build? I understand that there can be compatibility issues but pump, res, rads, tubing? Any problems with degradation in the hardware that would make it necessary to replace when switching to a new loop?

2. Is there any regular maintenance that needs to be done? I have heard about bleeding the system?

3. What are the key points that I should be looking for when choosing radiators? Benefits of a thick/ thin rad or having push pull vs. noise.

4. What size tubing would be good for this system? 1/2 ID 3/4 OD ok for normal use?

Thanks for reading and any help you can give.
 

Virssagòn

VIP Member
You're sure about that? I think the h100 is cooling your cpu pretty good. a full loop will not give that much better cooling.
For the graphics card, I read that the twin frozr is decent cooling too...
Or is it because of the noise?

Anyway, a custom loop is awesome. 1 computer fully cooled by one watersucking thing :p
 

salvage-this

Active Member
The H100 is a great cooler. It's just that I have always wanted to move over to a full loop. Temps have a hand in it, but it's mainly because I think that it would be a sweet project to work on.

I'm sure I could find something worse to spend my money on :p
 

Virssagòn

VIP Member
Money doesn't seem to be a problem :p
Yes, it's a interesting project. But Idk very much about it. I was planning to do it myself too. Still didn't have the time to read and have a look.
I solved the noise of my gpu to place a casefan on it xD (weird though)
 

salvage-this

Active Member
The knowledge is hard to get. Just like building a PC, the hard part is not putting it together. It is finding all of the right parts. As I'm sure you can see from the OP, I still have a bit to go.

For starters I looked at a few videos from Linux Tech Tips and read a few guides around forums. The one that Machin3 wrote is a good place to start http://www.computerforum.com/206174-how-liquid-cooling-101-a.html

From there I found MartinsLiquidLab.org. He has some really in depth looks at some of the hardware that you can put in your system. Here are a few that I have read over

http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/02/distilled-water-is-the-king-of-water-cooling/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/03/22/i7-3930k-cpu-swiftech-apogee-hd/

Even if you are not going to head in that direction it is an interesting read.
 
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Machin3

New Member
Hey there. I like what you are trying to do here. To answer your questions:

1. When building a new system, can you transfer most of the parts over to the new build? I understand that there can be compatibility issues but pump, res, rads, tubing? Any problems with degradation in the hardware that would make it necessary to replace when switching to a new loop?

You can transfer over to a new system, its not really a problem. Tubing I would replace, anytime I transfer over parts to a new case or whatever, I replace the tubing, just a preference, I've run into plasticizer problems so if I have a new loop going with existing parts I prefer fresh tubing.

2. Is there any regular maintenance that needs to be done? I have heard about bleeding the system?

Maintenance is up to you how often you want to do it. About 6-8 months would be a good idea. Yout want to take the tubing, flush it through; take apart the cpu water block to clean it; dust out the radiators obviously, its stuff like that. A new supply of fluid is also a good idea. Bleeding the system is just running fluid through your tubing and system. Takes a bit of time because you want to get the air bubbles out.

3. What are the key points that I should be looking for when choosing radiators? Benefits of a thick/ thin rad or having push pull vs. noise.

Thick radiators will disperse your heat better but you may want to get stronger fans to cool that down better. Slim fans are made so that you dont really see them at all. Push/Pull will obviously cool the radiator down faster but then you sacrifice noise unless you find some nice quiet fans. I recommend getting a fan controller so that you can regulate fan speed like when playing games where the heat tends to rise.

4. What size tubing would be good for this system? 1/2 ID 3/4 OD ok for normal use?

1/2 ID 3/4 OD is usually what people get. Gives you a nice flow through the system and looks really good. Make sure that you have the correct fittings for the tubing.

Oh and last question you had about the pump, I would recommend a swiftech pump. Preferably the MCP655. Never hurts to have a little extra power if you do decide to run that video card block.
 

salvage-this

Active Member
Hi Machin3. Thanks for the reply.

I did more reading over the last few days and I decided on a few more parts. I am thinking either one 360 and one 120 from Swiftech's XP line. It seems to be optimized for 1800 RPM fans.

http://www.swiftech.com/MCRX20-XP-RADIATOR-SERIES-1.aspx

The other option is to keep the 120 xp radiator and get something that is a bit thicker for the top 360. I just don't know if I would need more fans or fans with a better static pressure for using them in just a pull config. So far it looks like the slim radiator can already take away ~250w of heat.

After reading the Distilled Water is the King of Water Cooling post on MartinsLiquidLab it looks like I will be fine using distilled water and PTNuke as long as I don't have any plating in the loop. So I am trying to make sure that none of the components that I am using state that they have plating on them. I might have to settle on the fittings but I don't think that I will have much of a problem there.

For now I am just planning on getting my CPU cooled and then migrating to CPU and GPU when I move to a new GPU. Even with overvolting on the GPU for a 1GHz OC I still have temps in the mid 70's :D

Thanks again for the help! There is a lot to learn here but I want to get this right the first time.
 

Machin3

New Member
No problem. You can do a slim 360 radiator with a push/pull config and itll come out to the same thickness as a thick radiator. I actually have that going on in my setup..i think lol. And then the 120 in the rear is a good idea too. Its your choice in the end. I support both options.

As far as coolant, I run distilled water as well, I have a silver coil popped in there and I havent had any problems yet. I've had my system for almost a year i want to say.

If you have any other questions, Ill be around. Its hard for me to answer nowdays thanks to paramedic school but I get on once in a while. There's quite a but to learn but as soon as you get it done, it all starts to kind of click in the head lol.
 

salvage-this

Active Member
Ok so here is the tentative list. I looked over a few pumps and I think that I got one that will work well for the system.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...LGA_2011_Hardware_AMD_Ready_Apogee-HD-BK.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...e_Triple_120mm_Slim_Radiator_-_MCR320-XP.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...formance_120mm_Slim_Radiator_-_MCR120-XP.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...voir_12_ID_and_38_ID.html?tl=g30c97s165#blank
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...Pump_w_G14_Thread_Ports_Perfectly_Tapped.html
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...4-W_w_Free_Sys_Prep.html?tl=g30c99s1614#blank
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...Shining_BP-CPF-CC5.html?tl=g30c409s1609#blank
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/1...D_34_Tube_BP-45R2CPF-CC5.html?tl=g30c409s1611

So far I am looking at just over $400 for the setup. Seems kinds high but I think I might be able to make it work. I know that I don't need both radiators for the 3570k but I would like this system to be able to handle a GPU whenever I toss one in. I have been doing some planning on how to set up the loop and here are the two options that I am looking at



 

Machin3

New Member
Everything looks good so far. Yes, it does tend to run a little high. I paid around $600 just for my setup. :( Check out performance-pcs.com. I bought most of my stuff through them. They have sales on some of their stuff and their prices are pretty good too.
 

salvage-this

Active Member
Looks like I can save quite a bit of money. Thanks for the tip. :D

So I was looking into the math behind how much cooling power wold be necessary. So far I am looking into how much heat in watts the loop can handle. So far I am using the PSU calculator to measure what wattage my CPU might use for OCed settings. I am just using that wattage to compare as the equilibrium for the loop. So as long as the loop can dissipate more heat than the processor brings into the loop I shouldn't have problems with the water constantly getting warmer on every pass through the loop.

Is that a reasonable way to look at it? Honestly I have no idea if any of that was right at all.

EDIT:

Ok I switched to performance PCs. I did save a bit of money but there were some things that I forgot. So here is the final list.

CPU Swiftech Apogee HD
360 Radiator MCR320-XP
120 Radiator MCR120-XP
Reservoir Swiftech MCRES Micro Rev. 2
Pump Swiftech MCP655
Tubing Primo Chill Primo Flex ½ ID ¾ OD 10ft White
Compression Fittings Swiftech ½ ID ¾ OD Compression Fittings
45 degree elbow Swiftech 45° Swivel Elbow Lok-Seal™ Adapter - Black
Reusable clamps Reuseable Clamps - For 3/4" O.D. Tubing - Black
Fan Controller Bitfenix Recon 5 Channel Mobile Device Controlled Fan Controller
Biocide Petra's Tech PT Nuke Cu Concentrated Biocide (10mL)

With tax and shipping that comes to $457.14. :(

I am not completely sold on having the fan controller. I am very picky with how the system looks and I don't want to have a bunch of knobs on the front so I was looking to do either the NZXT Sentury 2 or the Bitfenix Recon 5. Both seem to do about the same thing but I like the looks and the extra features of the Recon 5 a bit better.

If I wanted to save a bit of money I can drop the 120 Radiator, fan controller and 2 compression fittings. I would drop the price nearly $100. If the math above is correct I could run my i5 at 1.55v 24/7 and still have ~140w of cooling overhead from the 360 radiator alone. So what I am wondering now is would the 120 benefit the system at all since I have so much cooling performance. Where am I going to find diminishing returns on the loop.

Ok, just a few more questions...

The MCP655 takes the water in from the side and pumps it out the top right? If not I need to redesign the loop.

I checked over my parts and I think I don't have any plating in the loop that will flake off into the liquid. Would you mind re checking my work on that? The one that I am worried about are the compression fittings. They are painted black. I think they will be ok, I just would like a second opinion.

Thanks again for all of your help. I really do appreciate it.
 
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salvage-this

Active Member
Rather than editing this continually, I'll just bump it with more info...

So I found out that I was wrong with the initial calculations. Here is another calculation that I found online. I am still not sure if this is right either but it seems better than my way of looking at it

From http://daemonkin.hubpages.com/hub/Choosing-a-radiator-for-pc-watercooling

((TDP*OCF)/SF)*(VC^2/VID^2) = Overclocked Heatload

TDP = Thermal Design Power (Point). Get this with google by using "<chip name> tdp."

OCF = Overclocked Frequency in MHZ. This is how far you have overclocked to. If you have a 4ghz overclock, this entry will be 4000

SF = Stock Frequency in MHZ. This is pretty self explanatory. 2.66GHZ will be represented as 2660.

VC^2 = V Core squared. This is the V Core you have set for your overclock.

VID^2 = The stock V core setting. You can find this with google by using "<chip name> stock vcore."

So using that calculation here is what I am looking at for heat values

4.5GHz @ 1.24v = 109w
4.8GHz @ 1.42v = 152w
5.0GHz @ 1.55v = 189w

So that kind of changes my views on what is necessary since I was going off of the idea that 1.55v was going to be giving off 108w of heat at full load.
 

Machin3

New Member
Hey Salvage, took a look at your current final setup. Everything looks pretty good so far. Saved some money I see but not a whole lot. Its one of the drawbacks I guess to watercooling :/

To answer your questions:

1. Yes the pump sucks in water through the side and discharges it through the top.

2. You shouldn't have any problems with flaking especially with the compression fittings even though they are painted black. I have enzotech with are also painted black and ive had no problems at all.

As far as the fan controller, it really a matter of preference on whether you want it or not. Its nice to have so that when your playing games for example or using an application that is heavy on cpu power, its nice to be able to control the speed of the fans so that you can cool your radiators to your preference. Its hard finding something that matches and looks nice. For me it was somewhat easy, I have an 800D and I managed to find a zalman fan controller that matches the case perfectly.

Any other questions, Im here to help.
 

salvage-this

Active Member
Alright I did a lot of research on how to calculate what I would actually need for this system. I read a lot of helpful posts but I am finding an inconsistency with the graphs that I was looking over.

Both reviews are for the HWLabs SR1 360. On MartinsLiquidLab the SR1 with 3 push fans at 1400RPM can remove just under 200w of heat while maintaining 10c or less change in the water temp. On SkinneeLabs the SR1 is reported to be able to handle around 450w of heat. I understand that there might be slight differences in the testing methods but not enough to more than double the performance. :confused:

**I was looking over the SR1 review because it was on both websites and it seemed to have similar performance to the MCR320-XP at 1400RPM and below**

Since they are both comparing the same radiator at 10 degrees delta and at 1400RPM do you have any idea what is the real number I can trust or what might have led to the discrepancy in the two reviews?

http://skinneelabs.com/hwlabs-sr1-360/4/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/08/hardware-labs-sr1-360/4/

It would make sense to me that 450w would be the right value. Otherwise one of the clarkdale i7's at 4.2 and above would need a triple radiator at a bare minimum. On my own system I had a i7 930 at 4.0 with an H60. Clearly the H60 doesn't cool on that level.

If it is not too much trouble can I ask you what voltage you are running your i5 at and how you have your loop set up. I just want to get a good comparison that has been running stable for a while.

Thanks again. You have been really helpful.
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Could you explain why? Right now the two one liners that you have here are not exactly giving me a lot of faith in your opinion.

Here is what I read about different coolants.
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/02/distilled-water-is-the-king-of-water-cooling/

Ive written about this at length multiple times on this forum, and to be honest, im not going to go through it all again.

But to give you a reference,

The introduction of additional metals into the system (silver, etc.) or the use of ionic algaecides (copper sulfate, etc.) even in minor concentrations can trigger the corrosion processes.

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...rt_Final.pdf&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13595113372035
 

Machin3

New Member
You know, in all honesty, I've had a silver coil sitting in my loop for a year now with the system I have and its absolutely fine. There's no damage to the blocks and such. And I've only cleaned the system once and it runs on almost a 24 hour basis.

I don't use special coolants but I'm also not afraid of using a coil.
 
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