Cant Decide - Lots of Questions

dragoon38900

New Member
Awhile back, I decided to build a computer (AMD of course). However, now theres the new Core 2 Duo. I was originally planning on getting a Athlon X2 4400+, but now they say the "Conroe" is better. Before I begin with the questions, I decided to create 2 builds, one for Intel, one for AMD:

AMD

CPU - AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Dual Core Processor
(2.2GHz, 2MB, 1GHz Bus, Socket AM2) - $234.99

http://www.acnt.com/product.asp?pf_id=CPA8AM24400

MOBO - ABIT KN9S AM2 S940 NVIDIA MCP55S DUAL DDR2 AUDIO GBLAN SATA RAID - $99.95

http://www.atacom.com/program/print...5013122_65_123_7_81&Item_code=MBAM_ABIT_AM_00

OR

ABIT KN9 SLI Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 SLI MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $115.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127236

OR

ASUS M2N-E Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 570 Ultra MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $96.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131022


INTEL

INTEL BUILD

CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Dual Core Processor (2.13GHz 1066FSB 2MB LGA775) - $245.99

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...Product_Code=120383&Category_Code=intel-core2

MOBO - Intel BOXDP965LTCK Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - 119.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813121035

RAM - pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model PQI26400-2GDB - Retail - $184.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141064

OR

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model F2-6400PHU2-2GBNR - Retail - $161.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231084


The Ram, Video Card, and Hardrive in both builds will be the same:

RAM - pqi TURBO 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model PQI26400-2GDB - Retail - $184.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820141064

OR

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model F2-6400PHU2-2GBNR - Retail - $161.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231084


Hardrive- Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $79.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701

Videocard - Leadtek PX7900GT Geforce 7900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail - $269.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122244

OR

XFX PV-T71G-UDE7 GeForce 7900 GT EXTREME (520MHz) 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail - $284.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814150139


OK, now on to the questions:

1. Which build is better?

2. They say core 2 duo is better, but how? The Athlon X2 4400 has 2.2GHz, 2000Mhz bus speed, and 2 x 1Mb L2 cache while the Core 2 Duo E6400 has only 2.13GHz, 1066Mhz bus speed, and 2Mb L2 cache. Exactly why is the conroe better? Is it actually better?

3. After the first 2 questions are answered, I will choose the better build. However, Im not too sure which motherboard to get. I asked my friend who has a friend that teaches computers and he says to go for ABIT. Is that necessary? What boards would you guys recommend?

4. I placed 2 sets of Ram (pqi and G.Skill). Which is worth getting? I heard Corsair is good...

5. Hardrive - Can anyone find a better deal?

6. Videocard - I placed 2 kinds of 7900gt. Which is the better pick? The XFX has higher numbers, but look at the ratings and reviews... Is there a better choice out there?

7. About the PSU:

XCLIO GOODPOWER 500W ATX 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB, VDE, FIMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO, SEMKO - Retail - $48.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189005

OR

COOLMAX CP-500T EPS12V 500W Active PFC Power Supply 100 - 240V - Retail - $49.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817159040

OR

HIPRO HP-P500W/TOP-500P5 ATX V2.01 500W Power Supply 115/230 V - OEM - $36.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023

Again, I have trouble choosing... the first one has SLI support (but I dont think I need SLI...), the second one has Active PFC, and the 3rd one is cheap.

8. Lastly, does anyone know any good cases? One that would fit my system nicely. Also, any good case with PSU deals? I dont plan to spend more than $100 on the Case and PSU.

With all of these, the price is around $950. Adding a 17/19 inch CRT, Mouse/keyboard and a DVD RW drive... I think this will be a $1100 computer.

(BTW, are any of them not compatible with each other?)

Thanks to anyone that replies.
 

Bobo

banned
dragoon38900 said:
1. Which build is better?

2. They say core 2 duo is better, but how? The Athlon X2 4400 has 2.2GHz, 2000Mhz bus speed, and 2 x 1Mb L2 cache while the Core 2 Duo E6400 has only 2.13GHz, 1066Mhz bus speed, and 2Mb L2 cache. Exactly why is the conroe better? Is it actually better?

3. After the first 2 questions are answered, I will choose the better build. However, Im not too sure which motherboard to get. I asked my friend who has a friend that teaches computers and he says to go for ABIT. Is that necessary? What boards would you guys recommend?

4. I placed 2 sets of Ram (pqi and G.Skill). Which is worth getting? I heard Corsair is good...

5. Hardrive - Can anyone find a better deal?

6. Videocard - I placed 2 kinds of 7900gt. Which is the better pick? The XFX has higher numbers, but look at the ratings and reviews... Is there a better choice out there?

7. About the PSU:

XCLIO GOODPOWER 500W ATX 500W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB, VDE, FIMKO, DEMKO, NEMKO, SEMKO - Retail - $48.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817189005

OR

COOLMAX CP-500T EPS12V 500W Active PFC Power Supply 100 - 240V - Retail - $49.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817159040

OR

HIPRO HP-P500W/TOP-500P5 ATX V2.01 500W Power Supply 115/230 V - OEM - $36.50

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817174023

Again, I have trouble choosing... the first one has SLI support (but I dont think I need SLI...), the second one has Active PFC, and the 3rd one is cheap.

8. Lastly, does anyone know any good cases? One that would fit my system nicely. Also, any good case with PSU deals? I dont plan to spend more than $100 on the Case and PSU.

With all of these, the price is around $950. Adding a 17/19 inch CRT, Mouse/keyboard and a DVD RW drive... I think this will be a $1100 computer.

(BTW, are any of them not compatible with each other?)

Thanks to anyone that replies.
  1. The Intel build is better, unless you plan to do SLI
  2. Speed isn't everything, look at some benchmarks
  3. Don't get an Intel board. I would recommend This One or This One, or if you can afford it, This One
  4. Both sets are pretty much the same, go with the PQI cause it's cheaper. Or go with This One, which has better timings
  5. Actually that is a really good price
  6. The XFX is considerably better, it is 520/1500 as opposed to 450/1320. However, reviews aren't too great, so you could get the Leadtek and OC it. But I would get This One, considering price and performance
  7. The Coolmax is the best power supply out of those
  8. I don't know what you like in a case, but Aspire is a very good brand to choose from. In that range, they don't have much, but you could go for an X-Gear or an X-Dreamer. I personally have an X-Dreamer II and love it.
Everything is compatible.
 
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Decadence

New Member
I like Lian Li cases, they're so stylish and from what I've read are very nice, I'll find out for myself on monday.
 

Bobo

banned
Decadence said:
I like Lian Li cases, they're so stylish and from what I've read are very nice, I'll find out for myself on monday.
Yeah, but the cheapest one is $78, not in his price range
 

JG30

New Member
Decadence said:
I like Lian Li cases, they're so stylish and from what I've read are very nice, I'll find out for myself on monday.

Yes but Lian-Li comes at a price. My other favorite brand would be Silverstone. Both have some of the best interior designs IMO.


As Bobo stated, it's not all about numbers. Benchmarks are what is important. This seems to be a problem in the computer world as far as the general public is concerned. People see bigger numbers and assume better performance. If that was the case then the P4 3.x GHz processors would still be kings wouldn't they? But that is obviously not the case when things like an AMD with a supposed clock speed of 2.5GHz will blow it away. Same thing when people try and compare PC's to Mac's...the numbers just don't work that way. So yes the Intel Core 2 Duo is the better system and can be proven by looking at any benchmark tests.

As far as motherboard choices for the Intel system right now...I'm going to tell you what I have said to everyone else (including myself). Wait for the new boards coming out. The Asus board will be available VERY soon and will support SLi. If you can wait into august I'm going to guess your options will be much greater (I'm hoping DFI will come in August:) ). If Sli is not that important to you I'd still advise you to wait and see what these new boards are going to offer but truth is you could be very satisfied with the boards posted above.
 

JG30

New Member
Bobo said:

Not the one I'm talking about and it's that board is an intel chipset.

The board I'm talking about can be seen here along with the asus board that is coming out VERY soon...http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=72861.
There in the first post and there is alot of discussion about it as well.


EDIT for all you lazy people....

Asus
000000040302.jpg


DFI
MotherboardB.jpg



Both support SLi as both are going to be using nvidia 590 chipsets.
 
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dragoon38900

New Member
Thanks for the input everyone. I guess ill go with the Core 2 duo then. I agree with the Video card, Bobo. I think Ill go with the EVGA. As for the Motherboard... woah. Those are quite expensive, $150+ is really pushing the price (I mean, sure some people would say whats $40 more going to do? however, thats exactly what I did for all the other parts... I find something, then I find something better thats only a couple of bucks more... it adds up! For an example, I origally chose the 4200/6300, but the 4400/6400 was only 40 bucks more. Another example, I originally wanted only 160 gigs, but the 250 gigs was only 15-20 bucks more...) . Is there any other alternative? As for the case, ill look into it some more.

One more thing... do black cases make your system hotter? Like how it is when wearing black clothes? Just wondering...
 

JG30

New Member
LOL no black cases shouldn't make the system hotter unless they are out in the sun...and that would be a whole other problem.

As for the video card. I'd stay away from factory overclocked units. That XFX card is factory overclocked and well they suck at it. Almost every card that comes from the factory overclocked has issues. If you read around you will hear people complain about this. Just overclock it yourself...and if you don't know how read about it.

As for the motherboard. Well I'd have to say this is the one thing i would NOT skimp on price. People seem to forget that the board is the backbone to any good system. It is what makes or breaks a system (especially overclocking it). $150 is really nothing compared to what some enthusiast boards first retail at. Your going to save youself some money anyway if you don't go with the more expensive (and IMO worse) video card so put that towards the motherboard.
 

dragoon38900

New Member
Ahh, I never actually had the intention of overclocking, let alone get an overclocked product. How do you know if its overclocked? Where/which is the normal version? As for the Motherboard, Ill put your word for it. But I want to research some more. What exactly should I look for in a Motherboard for this system?

BTW, I really dont want to go over $1000 for the 6 major parts (CPU,MOBO,PSU/Case,VIDCARD,RAM,HARDRIVE).
 

Bobo

banned
I certainly agree with JG about the motherboard. Intel does not make quality boards. If you need to save $40, take it from the CPU, not the motherboard.

dragoon38900 said:
Ahh, I never actually had the intention of overclocking, let alone get an overclocked product. How do you know if its overclocked? Where/which is the normal version
Overclocking isn't nearly as bad as you make it out to seem. The eVGA card is OCed, but it is a much better card than the XFX (just not necessarily in sheer performance)
As for the Motherboard, Ill put your word for it. But I want to research some more. What exactly should I look for in a Motherboard for this system?
Look for not Intel. That basically depends on what you want, like how many IDE slots, or types of SATA RAID, etc.
 
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dragoon38900

New Member
Ill stick with the GIGABYTE board for now untill I find another one. Anyways, the X-Dreamer case looks really good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144122

I didnt really like the others since they had lights and all. I like front temp LED though .Question: Is the power supply on that case good enough for this system (I doubt it)? If not, is it possible to get this case without the power supply (and hopefully cheaper). If thats not possible... i'd end up spending a little over my $1000 limit (maybe 15-30 bucks more). If it is good enough for this system, that would be great since the final price would be about $980.

EDIT - I found 2 interesting cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144125
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144163

One of them comes with 4 fans (that kind of suprised me), while the other only 2... which do you guys think is better out of the two? Also, is the PSU that comes with it good enough? If I get these, the final price still goes 1000+, but at least I didnt spend more than 100 on the case and PSU.

Also, about the Core 2 Duo processors. I know, ive seen the benchmark scores, and hands down they beat the X2s. However, what exactly is the reason? The numbers are less, yet the benchmarks are better... there has to be a reason to that...
 
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Bobo

banned
dragoon38900 said:
Anyways, the X-Dreamer case looks really good.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144122

I didnt really like the others since they had lights and all. I like front temp LED though .Question: Is the power supply on that case good enough for this system (I doubt it)? If not, is it possible to get this case without the power supply (and hopefully cheaper). If thats not possible... i'd end up spending a little over my $1000 limit (maybe 15-30 bucks more). If it is good enough for this system, that would be great since the final price would be about $980.

EDIT - I found 2 interesting cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144125
and
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144163

One of them comes with 4 fans (that kind of suprised me), while the other only 2... which do you guys think is better out of the two? Also, is the PSU that comes with it good enough? If I get these, the final price still goes 1000+, but at least I didnt spend more than 100 on the case and PSU.
The PSU that comes with the X-Dreamer is not good enough, but those 2 X-Navigators have very good power supplies

Also, about the Core 2 Duo processors. I know, ive seen the benchmark scores, and hands down they beat the X2s. However, what exactly is the reason? The numbers are less, yet the benchmarks are better... there has to be a reason to that...
Yeah, cause they're better :D
 

JG30

New Member
The Core 2 Duo is better because it was designed and engineered better. If you take some computer engineering classes you'd probably be able to understand. But as I assume you have not I will not go into details of how they achieve a faster more efficient CPU because in all honesty it will be over your head. If your really interested search the internet because there are plenty of articles that will lead you to the reasons (if you can understand it). But I think it is much easier to just take the benchmarks for what they are and leave it at that. Unless you really want to spend a lot of time understanding CPU design and architecture. Don't take this the wrong way because I'm always one for learning but I just don't think it's necessary in this case.



For $1,000...

Core 2 Duo E6400...http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...Product_Code=120383&Category_Code=intel-core2-$245.99
580W Hiper Sli certified PSU (you can find cheaper but this one is modular and so sleek:) )...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817128003-$99.99
eVGA GForce 7900GT...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130032-$239.99 (after mail-in rebate)
Western Digital 250GB Sata HD...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701-$79.99
GSkill 1GB DDR2 800 (PC6400) RAM (upgrade later)...http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820231088-$96.49

That puts us at $843 and leaves a case and motherboard. Your case selection I'll leave up to you and hold my opinions on that to myself. As far as the motherboard...I would wait a month and buy one of the boards coming out in the near future (aka the ones I linked you to). Spend the money on these boards (even if it sends your budget over a $100) because in the end it will be MORE then worth it! If you go with any of the previously mentioned motherboards then you will not be doing SLi and will mostly defenitly not be taking full advantage of your processor. I think that including motherboard and case you could pull off the system I just proposed for $1,100.

PS: I'd wait on the anything that is not discounted right now, like the processor, until the motherboards come out because more then likely you will save a few bucks when they bundle them together.
 

dragoon38900

New Member
CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Dual Core Processor (2.13GHz 1066FSB 2MB LGA775) - $245.99

http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merc...Product_Code=120383&Category_Code=intel-core2

MOBO - Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3 Socket T (LGA 775) Intel P965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $149.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813128012

*OR Wait for new ones to come out

RAM - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory - Retail - $177.99

Hardrive - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $79.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144701



Video card - eVGA 256-P2-N583-AR Geforce 7900GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail - $269.99

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130032

PSU - COOLMAX CP-500T EPS12V 500W Active PFC Power Supply 100 - 240V - Retail - $49.99

-Is this a good power supply alternative? It has PFC. Can it handle SLI?

I will only buy the PSU seperatly from the case if these cases:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144165
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811144125

are not good enough. Can they handle SLI?
 
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