Whats a good surge protector or ups?
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BassAddict
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This one is around $55 at Walmart. 4,000 joules will get the job done
Best protection for that coax cable is a wire. Coax cable must drop down and connect short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground via a wire. Wire is superior to any protector. Then a surge does not enter the building on that coax cable.
Some wires cannot be connected directly to earth. That is what a 'whole house' protector does. Make the same connection to earth when a utility wire (ie AC mains) wire cannot connect directly.
Surges seek earth ground. Either you connect energy harmlessly to earth before it enters a building. Or that surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Only you make that choice. Only you decide what path a surge uses to find earth. Once inside, nothing (as in nothing) will stop or absorb the typically destructive surge.
Informed consumers earth a coax cable, before it can enter the building, to have best protection. Much fewer and informed consumers earth one 'whole house' protector from more responsible companies such as General Electric, Siemens, ABB, Square D, Intermatic, or Leviton - to name only a few. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.
Above is protection for all appliances. Some also need protection for the building. So lightning rods are earthed. In both solutions, neither a protector nor lightning rod does protection. Both solutions are only about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Both solutions are only made better by upgrading the only thing that does protection - earth ground.
Essential for any protector is the low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to earth. A ground wire from the breaker box and from the coax cable that must have no sharp bends, not be inside metallic conduit, no splices, as short as possible, and must route separated from other non-grounding wires. Again, protection is never about a protector. Protection means energy is not hunting for earth destructively inside the building.
Only effective solutions will discuss where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. No previously recommended solution does that or even claims protection from destructive surges. Even one number says near zero protection. Only you choose how hundreds of thousands of joules connect to earth.
If a modem needs protection, then so does the furnace, air conditioner, every clock radio, the TV, chargers for mobile phones, dishwasher, etc. Informed consumers protect everything for about $1 per appliance using the only solution proven by over 100 years of science and experience. Earth one protector from more responsible companies. A superior solution - from over 100 years of well proven science - costs that much less money. Coax cable has even better protection only using a wire from a ground block to single point earth ground.
Above is only a secondary protection system. Each protection layer is only defined by what does the protection. You are strongly advised to also inspect your primary protection system. A picture demonstrates what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
One fundamental fact exists. And will not be discussed by ineffective (profit center) solutions. Protection is always about where energy is absorbed. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
I think I get most of what your saying westom, but just for simple clarification...
Here in Australia "safety switches" in your fusebox has been mandatory for many years which have mostly been promoted to stop electrocution within the property as they trip the main fuse when you for example stick a knife inside your toaster or drop a hairdryer in the bath.
From your information, is it safe to assume that the safety switch in my fusebox will stop an unusual power surge(storm etc) from entering the property and there is no need to have a surge protector on powerboards/extension leads to my computers and other appliances? After all why should I need to spend $100 on a surge protected powerboard when I can rely on my safety switch to protect my appliances and settle for a $30 powerboard?
Have I understood you correctly or should I still have surge protection within the house for important appliances such as pcs/tvs etc?
Here in Australia "safety switches" in your fusebox has been mandatory for many years which have mostly been promoted to stop electrocution within the property as they trip the main fuse when you for example stick a knife inside your toaster or drop a hairdryer in the bath.
From your information, is it safe to assume that the safety switch in my fusebox will stop an unusual power surge(storm etc) from entering the property and there is no need to have a surge protector on powerboards/extension leads to my computers and other appliances? After all why should I need to spend $100 on a surge protected powerboard when I can rely on my safety switch to protect my appliances and settle for a $30 powerboard?
Have I understood you correctly or should I still have surge protection within the house for important appliances such as pcs/tvs etc?
Thats good advice if you actually need surge protection, but we have a very stable power service in our area and it's been extremely rare that we've had a power outage due to a storm in 20 years or more, possibly because most power cabling here is underground. If there was storm damage it's most likely to affect the local substation which takes out power to a limited area but unlikely to create a surge at an individual property, unless that property unluckily suffers a direct lightning strike.
So how important for the average punter is the need for surge protected powerboards and the warranties they provide if there is an external safety switch on the property which I'm assuming westom referred to.
So how important for the average punter is the need for surge protected powerboards and the warranties they provide if there is an external safety switch on the property which I'm assuming westom referred to.
FuryRosewood
Active Member
Id say Tripplite and APC make good stuff...
MMM
New Member
Safety switches and surge protectors are entirely different to each other.
Safety switch is to protect you and the surge protector is to protect the equipment.
Safety switch (RCD) do not have surge protection.
Westom statement is not valid and there is more to grounding than what is stated in his post.
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Destructive surges typically occur once every seven years. A number that can vary even within the same town. Stable power and transients are two completely different anomalies. One can have extremely stable power. But still suffer transients at an extraordinary once every three years.
Safety switches and fuses are for human safety. So that a damaged appliance does not burn down the house. Power panel circuit breakers and fuses can never stop a surge for so many simple reasons. For example, safety switches take tens of milliseconds, minutes, or even hours to trip due to excessive current. A surge is done in microseconds. 300 consecutive surges could pass through a fuse before it even decided to blow.
Safety devices do nothing for a completely different anomaly - transient over currents. Grounding for human safety may be insufficient for transient protection. Human safety and transistor safety involve different factors.
As for voltage stability, well, all electronics work fine and happy during large voltage drops. Incandescent bulbs dimmed to 50% intensity and all electronics must work fine. However, the utility will maintain voltages much better than what all electronics desire. Because extreme voltage variations can be harmful to motorized appliances such as the refrigerator or furnace. Should you need voltage stability, then the solution is required on the dishwasher and washing machine. Not on electronics.
Code defines human safety. Transistors safety requires things well in excess of what the code requires. For transistor safety, every wire inside every incoming cable must connect short (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth before entering the building. If your buildiung only meets code, then those additional requirements do not exist. Earth either directly (ie TV coax cable, satellite dish, TV antenna) on incoming wires. Or earth via a 'whole house' type protector for others (ie AC electric, telephone) wires.
You assumed safety switches stop anomalies. Safety switches and fuses operate after damge has been done. So that damage does not cause a house fire. Nothing stops anomalies such as transients. Nothing. Either that energy is connected harmlessly to earth. Or that energy blows through anything that might try to stop it.
Do not confuse human safety issues with transistor safety issues. Different equipment adresses each anomaly.
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General Motors has the industry's best warranties. That proves GM products are superior to Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota? Hardly. The best warranties are often found on some of the worst products. For surge protectors, the long list of exemptions explain why so many never get that warranty honored.
For example, some fine print in an APC warranty said a protector from any other manufacturer in the house voided their warranty. The fine print includes so many exemptions that, well, Newsman on 10 Sept 2002 in "SONY TiVo SVR-2000" defined another:
> Eventually it boiled down to a line in the warranty that said "Belkin at
> it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any reason".
Surge protection is selected for what it does. Warranties are how inferior products get hyped to less informed consumers. In free markets, better products typically have less warranties.
Many warranties from better manufacturers are not even published. They once told me at the Honda dealership, "That should not have happened. Honda will replace it for free."
MMM
New Member
Any Surge protector will do you, as it is better than having nothing.
Brand names in my opinion does not mean one is better than other but the specifications will be an indicator of quality.
If unsure which to buy go to your local computer shop and ask, quite sure they will sell one to you that would be suitable to your needs.
Brand names in my opinion does not mean one is better than other but the specifications will be an indicator of quality.
If unsure which to buy go to your local computer shop and ask, quite sure they will sell one to you that would be suitable to your needs.
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As far as asking local computer stores, reasonably priced products from a local specialist outlet is rare for me, so it's either major retailers with little knowledgeable advice or shop online. That's mostly why me(and I assume many others) come to this forum to gather advice from the many people here who can suggest products/specs/brands etc. together with minor debates on pros and cons so we can shop for the best products that suit our needs.
So now I'm convinced I need surge protection and I agree with not buying products solely on brand name, so what specifications should be given priority?
MMM
New Member
Here is one example
• Surge protection: Metal oxide varistors
• Supply voltage: 230-240V
• Current rating: 10A max. 2400 watt
• Protection mode: A-N, N-E, E-A
• Max surge current: 144,000A
• Typical capacitance: 400pF
• Clamping voltage (@50A): <775V
• Energy absorption: 4300 joules
• Response time: < 2 ns
• Filtration : EMI /RFI
Since you are from Australia I suggest you purchase from Dicksmith Electronics or Jaycar Electronics as the staff are very knowledgeable with these products.
Stores/branches are every where through out Australia.
Expect to pay fron $40 to $100 for a good quality product.
On this subject a better solution for Surge protector is to get an Electrician to install a Surge Divertor to your Switch Board of your house as this will offer the best protection for every appliance in the house.
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How does that protector rated to absorb 4300 joules (which means only 1400 and never more than 2900 joules) somehow make hundreds of thousands of joules disappear? Those specs do not claim protection from any typically destructive surge.
Where do those 140,000 amperes go? If 140,000 amperes are incoming to the protector, then the exact same 140,000 amps are also outgoing via adjacent appliances. It is electricity. The incoming and outgoing current is same and simultaneous. How does the same 140,000 amps outgoing from that protector not cause appliance damage? That 4000 joule protector does not even list protection from each type of surge. Protects from a type of surge that does not typically cause damage.
Most every professional discusses surge 'diverters' that make an always required short (ie 'less than 3 meter') connection to single point earth ground. Critical is the only item that absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. Not a protector. Single point earth ground. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
Informed consumers earth protectors from more responsible manufacturers including Clipsal and ABB. Obtain superior protection for everything - a protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance. The only solution used by Telstra in all of their facilities. Earth a solution proven by over 100 years of science and experience.
MMM
New Member
I think you are starting to make an Ass of your self with answers like this...
A simple question was asked and a simple answer would have been appreciated.
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Ya i still say just get any one that gives you warranty. Saves you a headache and hassle.
Mine warrantys up to $50,000 lifetime. I paid $70. The event of something happening and wrecking my crap, very minimal, and i live in an area where we get violent spring storms.
So i say, go for warranty.
Mine warrantys up to $50,000 lifetime. I paid $70. The event of something happening and wrecking my crap, very minimal, and i live in an area where we get violent spring storms.
So i say, go for warranty.
I think you are posting insults due to insufficient technical knowledge. Where is the spec number that claims protection? You posted none because none exist. How does that 1400 joule protector make hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear? Simple science. Those who cannot answer that question with numbers must post insults.
A diverter you recommended at the power panel will provide protection if its earthing is low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth. And if rated at least 50,000 amps. That is how protection is done everywhere that damage cannot happen. Protection means no damage even from direct lightning strikes. The best warranty comes from a licensed insurance broker.
Magic boxes that somehow make hundreds of thousands of joules disappear are best called scams. Magic boxes that will stop what three kilometers of sky could not stop will not even discuss each type of surge. Where is the spec number for protection from each type of surge? Not posted because it is not surge protection.
A warranty is also how to promote inferior products. Contains enough exemptions so that, for example, "Belkin at it's sole discretion can reject any claim for any reason".
Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Always. One must say where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Those who cannot will post insults. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which plug-in protectors do not have and will not discuss. More responsible companies such as Clipsal and ABB sell well proven solutions. With an always required and dedicated wire to earth.
MMM
New Member
Yeah you baited me for the last reply to you....
A bit of earth wire wont help you in a lightening strike, most certainly melt like a fuse wire..... how come you assume all surges are extreme excessive voltages/amps/joules....
I think you been googling too much.....to much technical hype and no practical experience....
You baited yourself. Due to hearsay and emotions, then you have posted subjective claims that also demonstrate no technical knowledge. Even those posted specs make no protection claims.
Urban myths quickly identify the least technically educated. A perfect example: "A bit of earth wire ... most certainly melt like a fuse wire". Nonsense.
From Electrical Engineering Times in Oct 2007 entitled "Protecting Electrical Devices from Lightning Transients". How much current can 18 AWG lamp cord wire conduct without melting?
> ... consider that a bare 18 AWG (1 mm diameter) copper wire, in air, normally will
> conduct at least 10 amperes safely, with very low self-heating temperature rise. ...
> [Melting] temperature could be reached "instantly" by an 8x20 µs pulse at a current
> of 61 kA.
A typical lightning strike (the classic 8x20 us pulse) is about 20,000 amps. Even lamp cord can conduct something approaching 60,000 amps.
Why does a 'whole house' protector earth use a 12 AWG (2 mm) wire? Because a minimal 'whole house' protector is designed to earth 50,000 amps without damage. 50,000 amps without "speculated melting".
Meanwhile, wire from breaker box to earth ground typically is 6 AWG (4 mm). Will conduct at least 10 times more current than the above 18 AWG wire. Where are all these ‘melting like a fuse’ wires? Please stop posting fables. Please stop posting insults. Please first learn well proven science. Only one who did this stuff could also post these numbers.
You baited yourself. Posted by using wild speculation; by not first learning any of that well proven (100+ year old) science.
OP asked how to protect a modem. Incoming wires connected short to earth will dissipate that energy harmlessly outside the building. Then protection already inside that modem and other appliances is not overwhelmed. If he needs modem protection, then he needs protection for everything. How that is done routinely was described in previous posts (with numbers).
A 'whole house' protector from more responsible manufacturers costs about $1 per protected appliance. Is typically 50,000 amps or greater. Is always connected low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to a single point earth ground.
OP's coax cable needs no protector. Best cable protection is to connect that cable directly and as short as possible to earth using a 12 AWG (or larger) wire. Protectors are implemented only when a direct wire connection cannot provide even better protection. But only one of us actually does this stuff. The other only replied with mockery. And no specification numbers that claim any protection.