Your opinion on pirating windows

[tlarkin]

Linux isnt better. The vast majority of apps exist for windows. It would not be cost effective to port these to a new platform

I personally think NT is superior to linux.

I agree, a computer is only worth what you use it for, and most people like and want to use Windows.

Its not growing as fast as windows is.
Secondly, the engines would need to be ported

Other platforms are actually growing faster than Windows, and the 1 laptop per a child project will make Linux the most widely used OS period. Though both Microsoft and Apple are now getting their hands on that project. However, they have stated that they will not put any major OS on the laptop by itself. They will offer some dual booting ones.

NT is not vulnerable to malware unless you are an idiot (which most windows users are - they run as admin user!). If you have a linux system and use the root account for day to day taks you would be just as vulnerable.

This is a bit misleading. First off some distros of Linux don't even have a root user you can log in and use. Instead they have what is called /etc/sudoers which allows admin accounts to escalate into root privileges. Also, in theory nothing in the GUI can access the kernel in Linux at all. They have to go through the shell which requires authentication. While in NT, there are things like kernel hooks, which allow software applications and drivers to directly access the kernel with out having to require admin rights at all. This allows for malicious software to automatically install itself and have direct access to the kernel. Also, all accounts are logged in as a root user in Windows. While, this did change in Vista a bit, and I think that Windows will shift to a more Unix-like set of permissions, it is still inferior security wise by design.

Now also look at technologies like Active-X, which also are granted access to kernel hooks into the NT kernel. Which means that you can install a wrong or malicious Active-X plug in that can root your whole system in Windows. The plus side is you get perhaps a bit of more robustness in your product as far as what it can do with the OS, the down side to these kernel hooks is that it is a security nightmare and it also allows developers to become lazy and sloppy.

So, while your statement is true, it is also misleading.

99% hardware and software support, thats what
and a larger user base

Really it is more of marketing. In the early and mid 90s during our huge technology boom Microsoft played it very smart and was able to get their product out to the masses, because of how they did business and how they marketed it. Now, if Linux, Unix, Mac OS, or anyone else were able to do that, they would be the standard. Since it has become that way people don't want to change because they fear having the burden of learning something new.

Now, that I am done digressing, about piracy....

Piracy is a weird thing with me. I think that companies should offer full on trial programs for those who want to buy their product. A lot of times you can't demo a product with out the full version. I understand the need not to, but I have in the past downloaded and used pirated software to merely test it out. Then if it was a product I liked I actually would have my company buy it. Also, when I have to deploy an application to thousands of computers and that company who makes the product has some jacked up ridiculous design or licensing which makes it impossible for me to deploy, I get mad and call and complain. When my organization pays $60,000 for a site license, it should work with out having to jump through hoops or activation woes to get the software to freaking work. I can see where people would buy a license and then use the pirated copy just because of the less hassle.

Now, that being said, you should always pay for your product. I am a big fan of try before you buy, but I always buy if I truly like it or want that product. Operating systems are required so if you are going to use one that you pay for then you need to pay for it. Granted I think Vista is a huge marketing mishap and I hate how they feature limit, but then again our MS rep gives us IT guys free copies of Vista Ultimate. So, I have a free legit copy from the vendor but probably would not spend $300 on Vista Ultimate as i don't think it is worth the money at all. However, I think that if you are going to use it you should pay for it, no matter what it is. People don't sacrifice their hours each week to give you a free copy and they need to earn their pay check.

 

[atentora]

I try to avoid pirating software, although there are a few exceptions *cough*adobe CS3*cough*, and use open soure alternatives. I even donate to some of these. An OS should be bought or obtained legally. Games should be bought, but I do have some exceptions to this rule, but those are due to companies *cough*EA*cough*Spore*cough* punishing users who buy a ligit copy.

 

[patrickv]

Pirating windows is a crime, pirating anything in that manner but some** cannot afford, because first off mind you a copy of windows locally here costs $393 or 217£ approx... now tell me would you buy at a high price ?
maybe am wrong but after searching online XP PRO SP2 does not even top 250$.
(well maybe i searched at the wrong place)

I won't give details on piracy but you'd be surprise at the level of piracy here....

 

[Dropkickmurphys]

why do they diserve a reward? at the end of the day that is what they are paid to do,its not like theyre doing it in their own free time and not getting paid to do it.

Microsoft pay them to make the OS,they pay them to see what people want in a OS and its their job to make sure it works....looks like with Vista they did not do a very good job.

Agreed with Nevakonaza. Also, for me, developers only deserve a reward from customers when the program or game is very good. Portal and CoD4, for instance, two great games and I bought them because I felt the developers did a great job so I felt that they needed praise by giving them my support.

My whole point was, their reward is Microsoft (or whoever) paying them, how do you think Microsoft gets the money to pay the staff! (...ok...thats not a great example, but you get the point...).
And they are not always going to get everything right are they? Vista isnt a bad operating system, people just dont like it, I know its been built so that people who dont live in front of their computer can use it easily, but still, i dont see that much more wrong with it... its more secure and up to date than XP... there might be a few problems with Vista, but you try writing 60Million lines of code and get its all completely flawless...even with however many people microsoft have working on it.

 

[tlarkin]

Well, MS, also doesn't prosecute piracy all that much in other markets. China for example: Why would any Chinese citizen pay like a whole month's salary for Vista, when they can buy it for a dollar pirated off the street? MS knows that chinese citizens can not afford their product, but what they do know is that everyone over there is using it, and their economy is booming right now.

So, what happens in 5 years from now when their average citizen's monthly salary goes up so high that they can afford spending $300 on an Operating System? They will start to pay for it. What OS will they use? The one they are used to using and have been illegally for years. It is in MS's best interest to allow them to keep pirating their OS because when their economy catches up and allows their consumers to buy such products they will, and MS will benefit from that.

Piracy definitely has its perks for sure. However, I do think that if you can afford it you should pay for it. I also think that all software companies should offer full money back guarantees as well if you don't like the product. A lot of software companies don't allow for that once you open it and install it.

 

[Calibretto]

I also think that all software companies should offer full money back guarantees as well if you don't like the product. A lot of software companies don't allow for that once you open it and install it.

Agreed...it sucks when you buy a piece of software and then install just to find out that it's not what you really wanted. Once you open it, the value goes down by like 10 or 20%.

 

[jdbennet]

MS sell legal copies of xp for like $10 in africa and china, to try and stop the pirates, but its Starter Edition which is shit.

This is a bit misleading. First off some distros of Linux don't even have a root user you can log in and use. Instead they have what is called /etc/sudoers which allows admin accounts to escalate into root privileges. Also, in theory nothing in the GUI can access the kernel in Linux at all. They have to go through the shell which requires authentication. While in NT, there are things like kernel hooks, which allow software applications and drivers to directly access the kernel with out having to require admin rights at all. This allows for malicious software to automatically install itself and have direct access to the kernel. Also, all accounts are logged in as a root user in Windows. While, this did change in Vista a bit, and I think that Windows will shift to a more Unix-like set of permissions, it is still inferior security wise by design.

by default vista doesnt allow access to the local administrator account, and you must use UAC to escelate (same way)

I do agree though that windows needs to seperate the GUI and the kernel - maybe follow an X Server model. I mean, it shouldnt be too hard, windows terminal services provides the client/server functionality. However, physically seperating the drivers would require a different HAL midel and when they change it it tends to break things

 

[tlarkin]

OS X did it by simply requiring admin authentication to install software or modify a system file. While not bullet proof, it doesn't allow for things to install them self.

 

[jdbennet]

same on windows....
a non admin user cant do it

but windows users are idiots and run as admins

 

[funkysnair]

had and used all version (xplite-xpblack edition- vista ultimate by experience and more)

i found a few problems with them-people adding backdoors and other nasty stuff along with alot of the functions dissabled....

not worth it-!! seriously! you are asking for problems

i got a legit copy of vista home premium 64bit, xp64bit and xp 32bit pro and ive never looked back

 

[tlarkin]

same on windows....
a non admin user cant do it

but windows users are idiots and run as admins

From my understanding it doesn't work that way, it doesn't require authentication just the option to run as admin, hence the right click ability to run as admin in Vista. While everything in OS X (and Unix and Linux) will prompt for you credentials any time it tries to modify anything outside your home directory. Windows still has a registry and shared resources which makes it, in my professional opinion, not as secure and kind of clunky.

I don't use Vista every day but have been using it since the beta. It is a transition OS, and Windows 7 will be more like Unix and it will require the authentication, which will make it more secure. People will complain and cry out how much it sucks, but they will get over it. Hopefully they will fully stop allowing developers access to kernel hooks as well. Windows has allowed many developers to develop some sloppy habits. Symantec is one of them that boycotted Windows taking away kernel hooks, and well when a Software company about the same size or maybe even larger than MS says if you do this we will pull the plug, you aren't going to get any sales on your new OS. Symantec pretty much runs most of the corporate back end on virus scanning, imaging, data mining, but they are slowly losing their market share to more competitive companies.

So, back to piracy.....

In some ways it helps get the product out and in circulation and in use. It also takes money out of the developers hands. When a company charges $30 for a new DVD I am more inclined to download it. If they charged like $8 I would be more inclined to buy it. So, one of the main problems with piracy is that these media and software companies are living in the past, wanting to charge you all this extra cash for boxes, shipping, marketing, etc. If you could just download a legit ISO of the OS for half the price how many people do you think would start to pay for it?

 

[twalker323]

Very interesting opinions and information.

Well I started this thread for this reason.

I want to address many of you that have stated that it is MORE of a crime to download music/games/movies etc then downloading an OS- many of you have stated that although you have download games/music/movies etc, you have not and will not pirate an OS. But let’s look at this situation in depth.

A DVD is about $15 to 20. A CD about $10, and games are about $50 to 60. Now combine all the music/movies/games that you have pirated and actually think of the value in cash that you have taken. It probably far exceeds the $200 to 300 that it costs in U.S to purchase a legit copy of Windows OS.

As Dirty D86 has aptly said, Microsoft can go the next 500 million years without making a single profit and would still have more than enough money left over- which is true. If this is true, isn’t downloading music/movies/games MORE of a crime then downloading an OS? After all as big as some (emphasis on some) music/movies/game companies are, they are nowhere as big as Microsoft- hence hurting them more (much more if the company is a budding buisness).

So to those that wag their fingers at the idea of pirating an OS- I ask of you, are your hands any cleaner? If you are okay with the idea of pirating music/games/movies, shouldn’t you be okay with the idea of pirating an OS?

Once again I am not trying to justify pirating an OS or any product for that matter. I just don’t understand the stance many of you take when it comes to pirating.

 

[jdbennet]

no, windows 7 will be crap

all the cool bits like WinFS and MinWin have been shelved

It will be Vista SE (hell, i dont even know why they should call it NT7, should be nt 6.2 or 6.3 because its not a feature release)

 

[just a noob]

how would you like it if you were holding 100 dollars, and someone ran by and grabbed it? and you would never see it again? don't like that? then don't pirate anything

 

[Calibretto]

how would you like it if you were holding 100 dollars, and someone ran by and grabbed it? and you would never see it again? don't like that? then don't pirate anything

right but it's not like that....

 

[ellanky]

If you do it right, you can pirate Windows with no problem and still get all the updates. So with that said, I don't see why it's not worth it. Yes it's illegal and wrong but some people don't have $100 lying around to put a stinkin' GUI on their PC. Yes I know, there is Linux but there is a lot of stuff you can't do on Linux like game.

I have to agree with this and with a comment about supporting developers. I admit I did download CoD4 and HL2: EP1 & 2 but I later bought them because they were great games and by me paying for those games its like me saying "thank you for your games" and them saying "thank you for your support"

 

[tlarkin]

Very interesting opinions and information.

Well I started this thread for this reason.

I want to address many of you that have stated that it is MORE of a crime to download music/games/movies etc then downloading an OS- many of you have stated that although you have download games/music/movies etc, you have not and will not pirate an OS. But let’s look at this situation in depth.

A DVD is about $15 to 20. A CD about $10, and games are about $50 to 60. Now combine all the music/movies/games that you have pirated and actually think of the value in cash that you have taken. It probably far exceeds the $200 to 300 that it costs in U.S to purchase a legit copy of Windows OS.

As Dirty D86 has aptly said, Microsoft can go the next 500 million years without making a single profit and would still have more than enough money left over- which is true. If this is true, isn’t downloading music/movies/games MORE of a crime then downloading an OS? After all as big as some (emphasis on some) music/movies/game companies are, they are nowhere as big as Microsoft- hence hurting them more (much more if the company is a budding buisness).

So to those that wag their fingers at the idea of pirating an OS- I ask of you, are your hands any cleaner? If you are okay with the idea of pirating music/games/movies, shouldn’t you be okay with the idea of pirating an OS?

Once again I am not trying to justify pirating an OS or any product for that matter. I just don’t understand the stance many of you take when it comes to pirating.

Piracy is piracy, there are no degrees of it. It is illegal and wrong to steal that way. Now, most people don't think it hurts MS, but it does. The things we discussed here are mostly circumstantial.

 

[kal2509]

i love pirating.... there is something about the open sea that just shivers me timbers.... ARGG


*shakes his head in shame*

that was really gay wasn't it?

 

[Respital]

i love pirating.... there is something about the open sea that just shivers me timbers.... ARGG


*shakes his head in shame*

that was really gay wasn't it?

Yeah that was.

Back on topic. Like someone said pirating can't be stopped completely, as long as there is a will there is a way. Like someone else said, not everyone has $200 to spend just to stick a GUI in their comp.
Those are my thoughts.

 

[Kesava]

I don't think I have ever paid for software, and the only games I have ever paid for were Audiosurf and The Orange Box. The rest, such as OS's, Music, Games, Porn and so on, I have pirated. If possible I will usually use freeware alternatives such as open office and VLC player and so on.

There have been times though when I have bought the CD of a local band because they actually need the money to support themselves.

I don't have the money to buy games, so it's not like I am just downloading them for free when I could be buying them. The makers aren't loosing money from me deciding to download the game instead. Because if I wasn't able to download it, I wouldn't buy it anyway.

That doesn't make it the right thing to do though.

Even though the manufacturers are making huge profits from the sales and your little download doesnt seem to hurt them at all, it also doesn't make it right.