Building my own Vs. Best Buy

Wildduk

New Member
I've been researching and on this board for a few days...In the 500-600 dollar range, is it really worth building your own system vs. buying a prebuilt one. I'm up to the challenge of buiding it myself, but want to know if I really can build a better system if I do it myself....Or would they be about equal to what I can buy at the store....

thx
 
You can build yourself a system that has better parts and has a longer warrantee on them. When you buy a store bought PC you only get a 1 year warrantee no matter what the part. On a self built system you get 3 years on the cpu and HDD, lifetime on the memory. Depending on the power supply you get, you can get usually 3 to 5 years warrantee on that.

Basically store bought pc's have cheap parts, you can build your system with good parts for about the same price. With store bought pc you usually only get a 300 watt power supply. If you plan on upgrading it, you would have to upgrade the power supply to put in a decent graphics card.
 
With a prebuilt, you get a copy of Windows included (fonts, codecs, DVD playback, etc.) If you buy windows separately, you might not get the libraries needed for DVD playback. (Maybe you do get those with retail copies of Windows, but it is a potential extra cost.) Also, a keyboard and mouse are usually included.

Personally, I would like to build my own so that I can more easily upgrade later. Unfortunately, prebuilts are generally cheaper for the same amount of power (do to using cheaper parts of lesser quality). It really depends on how picky you are about specific components and whether you ever intend to upgrade. I'm planning on building something in the $500-600 range but upgrading it later, so it can certainly be worth building your own with that amount of money.

(Also, all the prebuilts I've seen have those horrid "drive-covers." That's something you can avoid if you build your own - unless you happen to like those covers of course.)
 
If you after gaming/ video editing, build it yourself.
If you just surfing web/ office application, buying one is not bad idea. But always cross check with the actual cost of the hardware to make sure you are not being ripped off.
 
Building one gives you so much more knowledge. You cannot put a value on that and it will be with you for ever. There are disadvantages in that it's a one-off machine so you may be doing all your own servicing and troubleshooting. You have a problem; you are unlikely to find anyone on the Internet who has exactly the same. For most people, it's more convenient having something that is standard.
 
Most everyone here considers it worth it to build your own. This way, like they said, you know for sure that you're getting good quality parts. You also won't pay for anything you don't need. I've seen too many white box computers with 8GB(or more :eek: ) of RAM, a decent cpu, and mobo-integrated graphics. Meaning, you can't game on it since the gpu sucks, you've payed for 2-4 times as as much RAM as you'll actually use, and worst of all, the money that they put into all of that RAM and other useless gimmicks has been cut from the parts where it actually matters.

Whitetree, what on earth are you talking about with the DVD playback? I built mine, and I can play DVD's just fine. So can everyone else here, and probably 98% of us have home-built rigs.
 
I'm referring to the libraries that you need (not Windows Media Player which can play DVDs, but still depends on the libraries). Do the standalone versions of Windows have that? Maybe they do, I just know that OEMs often add DVD players, so I wasn't sure if it was included in Windows itself. It may very well be that modern versions of Windows include those now (involves license fees).

[edit] And if they do include that now, then that would be a nice little bonus to the overall cost. :)
 
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I'm referring to the libraries that you need (not Windows Media Player which can play DVDs, but still depends on the libraries). Do the standalone versions of Windows have that? Maybe they do, I just know that OEMs often add DVD players, so I wasn't sure if it was included in Windows itself. It may very well be that modern versions of Windows include those now (involves license fees).

You can play DVD's with freely available software, or using the software that is included with many retail packaged DVD drives.
 
I'm not going back on my early comments - building your own is a good idea but I'm not sure you do much worse quality-wise getting pre-built. Modern electronics are so reliable. Cheap does not automatically mean unreliable. It's too easy to point at the major manufacturers' quality when they sell millions of PCs and are bound to have failures. Most run fine. If you looked at posts in this forum, you could deduce that gaming PCs must be crappy given the number of problems. You have to look at the big picture.

I have a cheap PC from a local store that sells their own builds, ASUS motherboard. It's run for 7 years, 24 hours a day (around 60,000 hours). One hard drive failure (one of the major brands), several dvd burners (even the expensive ones don't last). I have a refurbished Gateway a few years old, $250 "new" which runs fine, intermittent use. I'm sure members could relate horror stories about their PCs. How many people post in forums saying how great their PCs have been? Only the spammers.

The average user runs their email, Word, browser, dvds and that's about it.

There is a great enough variety of PCs on sale that you can find something that fits your needs quite closely.
 
^ If a small store built it, then they're likely using off-the-shelf parts, same as you'd get with a home built. They probably overcharged you for it, too, and I'd be willing to bet that both machines have a crappy power supply, or at least a low powered one. The gateway probably has a bad mobo, too.

Post the specs and I'll tell you. ;)

Now, I'm not saying that a store-bought desktop is going to die on you in 3 months. It's very possible for one to last 5 years or more...but it's much more likely that a homebuilt one will outlast it, since they aren't subject to any cost-cutting. For example, during the pentium 4's heyday, almost all major brands had a Bestec ATX-250-12E in at least one of their product lines. A re-purposed unit designed for 5V-based systems, this unit was absolutely notorious for frying motherboards, most of the time after the machine was past its 1-year warranty. Ironically, it's the +5V rail that this thing used to kill its victims. It was a cheap design, though, so it was very, very popular among OEM's. It would have cost the companies maybe $10 more per machine to get a much, much better design, but they chose to save that for something else...probably to develop more crapware to spy on your system with.

That is their mentality. As long as it lasts through the warranty, they could care less if it dies.
 
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If the store built it, then they're likely using off-the-shelf parts, same as you'd get with a home built. They probably overcharged you for it, too, and I'd be willing to bet that both machines have a crappy power supply, or at least a very low powered one.
If you take into account the number of hours you spend reading what is the "best", go shopping for parts, putting it together and testing, multiply that by your hourly wage, what does that come to?

A power supply that lasts the life of a PC is not crappy, it's correctly sized. It all comes back to what I said - problems in forums are no guide. For every person that wants to heat their dorm with their PC, there are a hundreds that do trivial tasks.
 
The PSU in most white box machines will likely be the first component to fail. They don't design them to last the life of the computer...they design them to out-last the warranty. (which, if you recall, is almost always one year)

The argument about research time isn't valid, simply because we've already done all of the research. All TS has to do it ask.



Let's take a look at your average white box computer. We'll say a Dell Inspiron 580, configured today at $830. (picked because I found a review and could easily identify most of the parts)

For $830, you get:

Mobo- Mostly non-solid caps, some solids in the VRM section. Appears to be un-cooled 4-phase cpu power. Most other caps are not solids. Lots of parts, mostly caps, that have places silkscreened for them but are missing. (includes the PATA connectors) Rear panel includes 4 usb ports, ethernet, DVI out on the (unused) IGP, and your standard 7.1+mic sound outputs. Market value, about $50, if that...I couldn't find anything else this crappy.

CPU- Core i5 650, with a cheap, noisy non-standard cooler. Retail value, about $180.

RAM- 8GB DDR3 1333, 4x2GB. Completely unnecessary...this is just a gimmick. You're paying for RAM you'll never use, because people seem to think that more RAM means it'll go faster. There's also no room to upgrade, since they've used up all 4 slots...though I have no idea why you'd need to. Retail value, about $75, and I think that's being generous.

PSU- what appears to be a 300W Bestec. No PFC of any sort, which is a must in any quality unit...this means it's very susceptible to surges. It likely can't even top ~175W or so. Has 4 SATA connectors, 1 floppy ( :confused: ), 24-pin mobo, and 4-pin CPU. Nothing else. Knowing Bestec, it's probably pretty low quality, and could possibly kill the system eventually. Retail value, about $20.

GPU- Nvidia Geforce 220 1GB. Not even close to matching the CPU for gaming power, but it should handle everything else. Low build quality. The anemic cooler means the tiny fan can get loud under load. Retail value, about $50.

HDD- 1TB, most likely the cheapest brand they can find. (usually Hitachi or Seagate) Retail value, about $60.

DVD- DVD+/-RW / CD-RW drive. It's 16x, rather than the standard 22x or 24x. Retail value, about $15.

Case- interesting one here. One available expansion slot, which can only be used by an optical drive due to the non-removable hide-away doors. Built-in card reader. Single 80mm fan, poor airflow even if it had a 120mm, no 3.5" bays. The hard drive is mounted sideways, directly to the frame. No coating...it's bare galvanized steel on the inside. Cheap single-screw-for-all-4-cards PCI bracket holder. Does have USB ports on top as well as in front. Tough to place this one, but I'd have to say about $50 if it was sold retail.

Wireless card- B/G/N, dual antennas. Retail value, about $20.

Mouse and keyboard- Standard Dell ones...similar one s could be had for <$20.

Monitor- none.

Windows 7 home premium x64, OEM license. Comes with free crapware! Retail, $100.

So, in total, they've charged you $830 for what I estimate to be around $640 worth of parts, if it was sold retail. They didn't pay anywhere near that much for it. So let's take that same $830 and see what we can get out of it. (Assuming that this isn't a gaming computer.)

I'll be using the same Socket 1156 platform, even though I could go with Sandy Bridge and whoop up on it even more. I'll even use 8GB of RAM like the Dell.

And, partially because I'm lazy, I'll only use Newegg...no deals from elsewhere. No combos, either. So yes, the price on this could be improved.


Well would you look at that...I've absolutely murdered Dell for the price. There is absolutely nothing on this machine that isn't better than what Dell offered. Further, all of the important bits have at least a 3-year warranty. The PSU has 5-year, and the RAM has lifetime.

I didn't include shipping because it would have skewed the results, and you can nearly always get free shipping if you try hard enough anyway.

Any member her could repeat this at any price point, easily.

Still think it's better to go white box?
 
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The PSU in most white box machines will likely be the first component to fail. They don't design them to last the life of the computer...they design them to out-last the warranty. (which, if you recall, is almost always one year)

The argument about research time isn't valid, simply because we've already done all of the research. All TS has to do it ask.



Let's take a look at your average white box computer. We'll say a Dell Inspiron 580, configured today at $830. (picked because I found a review and could easily identify most of the parts)

For $830, you get:

Mobo- Mostly non-solid caps, some solids in the VRM section. Appears to be un-cooled 4-phase cpu power. Most other caps are not solids. Lots of parts, mostly caps, that have places silkscreened for them but are missing. (includes the PATA connectors) Rear panel includes 4 usb ports, ethernet, DVI out on the (unused) IGP, and your standard 7.1+mic sound outputs. Market value, about $50, if that...I couldn't find anything else this crappy.

CPU- Core i5 650, with a cheap, noisy non-standard cooler. Retail value, about $180.

RAM- 8GB DDR3 1333, 4x2GB. Completely unnecessary...this is just a gimmick. You're paying for RAM you'll never use, because people seem to think that more RAM means it'll go faster. There's also no room to upgrade, since they've used up all 4 slots...though I have no idea why you'd need to. Retail value, about $75, and I think that's being generous.

PSU- what appears to be a 300W Bestec. No PFC of any sort, which is a must in any quality unit...this means it's very susceptible to surges. It likely can't even top ~175W or so. Has 4 SATA connectors, 1 floppy ( :confused: ), 24-pin mobo, and 4-pin CPU. Nothing else. Knowing Bestec, it's probably pretty low quality, and could possibly kill the system eventually. Retail value, about $20.

GPU- Nvidia Geforce 220 1GB. Not even close to matching the CPU for gaming power, but it should handle everything else. Low build quality. The anemic cooler means the tiny fan can get loud under load. Retail value, about $50.

HDD- 1TB, most likely the cheapest brand they can find. (usually Hitachi or Seagate) Retail value, about $60.

DVD- DVD+/-RW / CD-RW drive. It's 16x, rather than the standard 22x or 24x. Retail value, about $15.

Case- interesting one here. One available expansion slot, which can only be used by an optical drive due to the non-removable hide-away doors. Built-in card reader. Single 80mm fan, poor airflow even if it had a 120mm, no 3.5" bays. The hard drive is mounted sideways, directly to the frame. No coating...it's bare galvanized steel on the inside. Cheap single-screw-for-all-4-cards PCI bracket holder. Does have USB ports on top as well as in front. Tough to place this one, but I'd have to say about $50 if it was sold retail.

Wireless card- B/G/N, dual antennas. Retail value, about $20.

Mouse and keyboard- Standard Dell ones...similar one s could be had for <$20.

Monitor- none.

Windows 7 home premium x64, OEM license. Comes with free crapware! Retail, $100.

So, in total, they've charged you $830 for what I estimate to be around $640 worth of parts, if it was sold retail. They didn't pay anywhere near that much for it. So let's take that same $830 and see what we can get out of it. (Assuming that this isn't a gaming computer.)

I'll be using the same Socket 1156 platform, even though I could go with Sandy Bridge and whoop up on it even more. I'll even use 8GB of RAM like the Dell.

And, partially because I'm lazy, I'll only use Newegg...no deals from elsewhere. No combos, either. So yes, the price on this could be improved.



Well would you look at that...I've absolutely murdered Dell for the price. There is absolutely nothing on this machine that isn't better than what Dell offered. Further, all of the important bits have at least a 3-year warranty. The PSU has 5-year, and the RAM has lifetime.

I didn't include shipping because it would have skewed the results, and you can nearly always get free shipping if you try hard enough anyway.

Any member her could repeat this at any price point, easily.

Still think it's better to go white box?

True. However, it also depends who using it and if the personal know to figure out what went wrong when the machine broke down.
 
My biggest beef with Big Store computers is all of the garbage software that comes with them; most of them are set to start up with the computer as well. So much trial this, register that, your brand new computer is slow as hell because it's trying to run 15 applications. No thanks, I don't need a copy of Office Frisbee 2012.
 
If a machine breaks down, there will be time and effort spent no matter the origin.
Stands to reason that better quality components would be more trouble free.
 
We have had a Dell Dimension 3000 since 2004. We have had to replace the ram because it went bad (not the ram it came with, some upgraded ram) and a fan. We added a cheap Nvidia PCI graphics card that gets power from its slot. So, the PC is running a separate graphics card, an extra DVD drive, and has double the ram it came with. We've been running it 24/7 (in standby) for the last several years and the PSU has been fine. (We only clean the dust out every few years...) Not a bad deal for 7 years considering that it has had to run some taxing (for the time) games, etc.

I say this to note that a prebuilt isn't necessarily going to break right away. Also, you can't really beat the price of budget prebuilt models (unless you want to buy cheap parts that aren't really any better than the OEMs).

However, you can build a midrange computer for about the same price (or even a little less) and get better quality parts. I recently compared different configurations of the Dell XPS 8300 (sandy bridge model) with reasonable quality parts from newegg. The individual parts were a better deal (even with a $100 copy of Windows 7).

So, it really depends on the price range (intended use) as to which is a better deal.

bomberboysk said:
You can play DVD's with freely available software, or using the software that is included with many retail packaged DVD drives.
That's very true. I had forgotten about that. Since our computer came with DVD support already installed, I didn't bother installing the included software we got with the extra drive. (I guess I'm thinking of Linux where you have to buy all of that separately since the software that they include with the drive won't work on Linux.)
 
If a machine breaks down, there will be time and effort spent no matter the origin.
Stands to reason that better quality components would be more trouble free.

Yeah, but it depends on who fixing it. Me and my parents not living in same country.
I built a PC for my brother, and written a guide to tell him and my mum how to format the machine & reinstall windows in case any software goes wrong. at the end, the PC get inflected by virus, they phoned me up telling me there is are problems & we spend hours on phone to figure out it was not hardware failure...

If i bought the white box, they just send it to Dell/ Acer/ HP, etc...
 
My biggest beef with Big Store computers is all of the garbage software that comes with them......
I'd agree with that, especially the AV that is sometimes difficult for the uninformed buyer to remove.

There's no doubt you can get better parts if you shop around but unless you take into account your own labour costs, the economics are rubbish. If you earn $20 an hour and the entire project including all the steps I noted in my last post takes 10 hours, that's another $200. I could do my own plumbing but if I go to work for the same time instead, I can pay the plumber to do an unsavoury job and pocket some money myself. The only benefit in doing the plumbing myself is to learn to be a plumber and to get some brownie points with the old lady.

When people buy an iPhone, laptop, fridge, vacuum cleaner, they want something that is cool, works and maybe a good price. Why is a desktop so different? Just because it can be modified doesn't mean it has to be or judged by different rules. Subscribers to this forum are interested in PCs etc. Most of the general public don't care two hoots what's in the box. Who can tell me the size of the motor in their vacuum cleaner?

When it comes to reliability, I can't think of a single electronic item I've returned in at least the last 10 years. My one hard drive failure had a long hard life.

Edit: I did some quick research into reliability. It's very difficult to find statistically significant results at all and most is urban myth. Here's an excerpt from one article:
"Sometimes if you ask people what they think of their PC, they may answer, "Aw it's just okay." But if you ask them how many problems they've had with it, they may say, "No problems at all." "
The summary table of the article (for 2003) is here.
 
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I'd agree with that, especially the AV that is sometimes difficult for the uninformed buyer to remove.

There's no doubt you can get better parts if you shop around but unless you take into account your own labour costs, the economics are rubbish. If you earn $20 an hour and the entire project including all the steps I noted in my last post takes 10 hours, that's another $200. I could do my own plumbing but if I go to work for the same time instead, I can pay the plumber to do an unsavoury job and pocket some money myself. The only benefit in doing the plumbing myself is to learn to be a plumber and to get some brownie points with the old lady.

That analogy isn't valid. In your comparison, the outcome is the same, but here, it isn't. You get higher quality on every front by building.

And you can't really say that you're losing money by taking time to build one...I've never met anyone who didn't consider it a fun experience. At the very least, it's not exactly an "unsavory" job, you know? It doesn't take anywhere near 10 hours to put one together, either, and like I said, we've already done all of the research on what the good parts are.

TS doesn't seem to have been back, but AFAIK his intended use for this is as a media/internet computer, with no gaming or other resource-heavy software. That being the case, I'm going to recommend this:

Mobo + CPU- Athlon II x4 640 + Gigabyte GA-770T-USB3- $188/$178 after MIR
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103916

RAM- 2x2GB G.Skill DDR3- $40
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231396

Asus Radeon HD5450- $41 (silent, supports newer features than any onboard graphics)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121377

HDD- Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB- $70
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185
cheaper here, good store- http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=HD-HD103SJ

DVD- Lite-On iHAS124-04- $21
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

PSU- Antec Neo ECO 400C- $48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094

Case- Cooler Master Elite 360- $50 (There are "better" cases for the price, but none are this compact)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119195

OS- Win7 OEM- $100
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116754

Total- About $560 (this can be brought down a bit if need be)

Let's see a white box machine beat that, hmm?

It's pretty easy to add a card reader or wireless card if you think you'd have a use for either.
 
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