Laptop won't startup

[PC Hobbyist]

I have a laptop here that all of a sudden decided to not startup. At one point, you could still enter the configuration utility at startup, but now that doesn't even work.

Any ideas? Nothing already in it is important - so if files are lost, it's not a problem. We just want to get it up and running for internet purposes only. It currently has Win ME on it.

Here is a picture of what I get when I boot up. It has a floppy drive and a cd drive, but neither seem to do anything. I tried putting the original Win ME cd and I also have a boot floppy, but the laptop doesn't respond to any of it. The CD drive runs, but like I said this is the screen(s) that I get and I cannot get past them. F1 or Ctrl+Alt+S (or +Del) don't do anything.

 

[The_Other_One]

Geeze, thats a lot of errors! Try replacing the CMOS battery. No clue how easy that will be in a laptop, but that's my first guess...

Have you tried to enter the configuration and manually configure your drives? Can you go in there and see if your time is set correctly?

Also, I know you say it doesn't matter, but you haven't lost any data. It's all still there. You just have to get your laptop to see your drives again. That or just pop the drive out and into some other computer using a converter

 

[PC Hobbyist]

Try replacing the CMOS battery. No clue how easy that will be in a laptop, but that's my first guess...

Thanks for responding.
So, how do I do that? And what kind of a battery is it (same as a desktop pc)?

Have you tried to enter the configuration and manually configure your drives? Can you go in there and see if your time is set correctly?

No, I can't get into the BIOS or configure anything. Pressing any key on the keyboard does absolutely nothing. I guess that can be explained by the error: "Keyboard Controller Failure".
Also, what exactly would I need to configure in my drives?

I have opened up and worked on PCs quite a bit, but I have never opened up a laptop. I know they are not that easy to work on, but maybe with some help I can change the cmos battery and see if that does it.

If you or anyone else has any other thoughts - they would be greatly appreciated. I am kind of stumped on this one.

 

[The_Other_One]

So, how do I do that? And what kind of a battery is it (same as a desktop pc)?

All laptops open differently. I had one that litterly had levers that let you lift the keyboard(exposing all the internals) as easily as opening the LCD... Some have the same battery as a desktop, some don't. It's really hard to tell without just getting in there, I'm afraid...

No, I can't get into the BIOS or configure anything. Pressing any key on the keyboard does absolutely nothing. I guess that can be explained by the error: "Keyboard Controller Failure".

Probably won't help, but have you tried an external keyboard? As for configuring your drives, just the normal setup. Sometimes just getting into the BIOS, then saving and leaving is enough. Sometimes you have to set the drives to auto detect, sometimes you have to enter the cylinders, heads, sectors, etc etc...

I have opened up and worked on PCs quite a bit, but I have never opened up a laptop.

Laptops are a major pain to work on...well most of them are... But normally the CMOS batter isn't THAT hard to find. Hehe, though you might be one of the lucky ones that has a non-removable CMOS batter (they are removable, but require a soldering iron and such...)

 

[PC Hobbyist]

Does the CPU chip look melted to you?

Ok, so I opened up the laptop to replace the CMOS battery and give that approach a try, but when I did so, I noticed that the CPU looks weird to me and I wanted to run it by people here in the forum to see what you think.

To me it looks like it started to melt. I took a few pictures of it for you guys to check it out. The "heat-sink" / fan sits right on top of the CPU and it has a little heat-sink-pad that rests directly on top of the CPU chip. When looking at the different pictures, you can see the matching line marks on the pad and on the chip.

What concerns me is the dark brown boarder directly around the chip, especially as it spreads more toward one side (toward top of picture) and has no distinct clear bordered line. I don't know if that is part of a "glue"-type of substance used to adhere the chip or if it is an overheated and melted chip.

Anyway, the CMOS battery was easy to take out, but that might be the least of my problems. If the CPU is melted,

Any thoughts and experience?

Part of me also thinks it is ok, because looking at the "service manual" for this laptop, they show how to disassemble it and their CPU also looks like mine.
You can check out the service manual from the following link (and then see the bottom of page 3-10).

http://www.acomp.hu/pub/gericom/Notebook/Manuals/Service/Service Manuals/2200C Service Manual .zip

I appreciate anyone taking the time to look at this.

Cheers.

 

[Robertw18]

Some of this discoloration could be caused by wear, but it does look like something did get fried... Do you smell anything "electrical" or did you when you opened it up?

Also, did you have your laptop plugged in during a storm or a power spike?

 

[The_Other_One]

Odd, but I doubt that's the problem. Basically anytime there's something wrong with the processor, it just plain won't work.

Seeing as you removed the heatsync, you should probably reapply some thermal paste to it, espeically if it works correctly

 

[PC Hobbyist]

Some of this discoloration could be caused by wear, but it does look like something did get fried... Do you smell anything "electrical" or did you when you opened it up?

Also, did you have your laptop plugged in during a storm or a power spike?

Nope, I didn't smell anything - and I was careful to pay attention to that, too.
I also don't know that any storm / power problem could have affected it - it actually belongs to a friend of mine, and she can't think of any incident like that. It did fuss like this a few months back and then some computer-wiz-teenager helped her get it going and gave her a boot diskette. He said it might fuss in the future, but with the boot diskette she would be able to get it going again. Well, we tried that, but it won't recognize that there is even a floppy drive installed (as you can read in picture of the error messages).

I wonder if that "glue-like" goo is thermal paste. I don't know if that hardens up like that or not.

By the way, when I put it back together at some point, should I put thermal paste on it before closing it up? If so, I'll have to see where I can get some (never used it before).


EDIT: Oops, there, I just saw your suggestion to use thermal paste. Thanks The_Other_One
I guess what I'll do is buy a new CMOS battery tomorrow along with some heat paste and put it all back together to see if the battery was the problem or not.
I'll let you guys know what happens. In the mean time, if anyone else has any thoughts, please post them. Thanks.


.

 

[Robertw18]

In all honesty, if you're just using the computer for normal everyday use, and not over-clocking the machine, or doing heavy gaming... you may not even have to worry about the paste.

 

[The_Other_One]

In all honesty, if you're just using the computer for normal everyday use, and not over-clocking the machine, or doing heavy gaming... you may not even have to worry about the paste.

I hear anytime you remove the heatsync, you're suppose to reapply the paste. It's not a MUST, I suppose, but on a laptop, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt. They get hot enough as is!

 

[Robertw18]

True... On my AMD 4400+ I don't even use any, and I've had it rendering graphics for over 60+ days... it gets hot (warms up the room by about 5 degrees) but I've never had any processor problems.

 

[PC Hobbyist]

Just out of curiosity, if the CPU is indeed the problem - how much would a new one cost? This one is a Pentium III about 800 MHz (as you can see on the sticker in the photo).

EDITED: Hey, I was just looking at the initial pictures with the screenshot errors and on there it says it is a Celeron processor. However, as you can see in the CPU pictures, the white sticker and black plastic label on it say CPUPIII866 which I assumed meant a Pentium III processor. So which one is it? Hm....

 

[The_Other_One]

How strange... I noticed Celeron earlier, but I didn't even pay any attention to what the processor said... I know some computers can say werid things if the processor settings are wrong. If it's not running at the full 133MHz FSB, it might just bump the multiplier up to make the it run full speed, but think it's a celeron? Or the bios might be old... Hard call, I don't really know why it's doing that.

For whatever reason, I still don't beleive it's your processor. Again, if something was seriously wrong with your processor, you really shouldn't have anything on the screen...

 

[Robertw18]

If it was your CPU, you would also probably get some POST errors. I would be more inclined to lead toward a motherboard error/malfunction...

 

[PC Hobbyist]

I just bought a new CMOS battery (the old one was tested and was absolutely dead). I installed the battery, used some thermal paste on the CPU. I fired it up hoping it would work, but I get the same errors as before and the keyboard still does not respond.

I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do next. Not sure how I could even test to see if the motherboard is working. Hm, any ideas on anything?

I tried an external keyboard just for the heck of it (knowing it would not work) - and still nothing.
I have been googling to see if I find anything new. So far, I found that: "CMOS FAILURE - RUN SCU (SCU= System Configuration Utility)" equates to the "CMOS RAM has lost power and needs to be reinitialized". I found a forum (Avaretec Forum) where people discussing a similar issue noticed differences when they booted from the laptop battery alone versus plugged into the wall. I tried it then with the laptop plugged in and oddly enough, a couple of my errors don't appear anymore, but I am still left at that screen and the keyboard does not respond. I still have the CMOS failure - run SCU message.

I'll keep googling and see what else I find.


PS - Any Russian speakers here? I found a forum where someone listed the same errors that I am getting, but then all the comments are in Russian. In case anyone here can read that, here is the link I found via google. The entry is toward the end of the page.
http://forum.ru-board.com/topic.cgi?forum=81&active=11&topic=0353&start=40

 

[Robertw18]

Well, it looks like you've tried quite a lot of things, there really are only a couple of things that would keep the keyboard from working, but if you can't get an external one to work either, this limits things pretty much to the motherboard. I've seen MBs go bad after a week, and I've seen them go bad after 12 years. There really isn't a way to check if a motherboard is working per-se, but you can check how select parts of it are working (IE CPU, memory, GPU, external ports) and is this case it looks like some controller might be on the fritz. Face it.... you just might be out of luck on this one.

 

[PC Hobbyist]

Back in business!

Hey.... GOOD NEWS !!!!!!!!!

I got it up and running again. I think it was the CMOS battery (since I had the old one tested and was told it was completely dead). Then, for some reason, after installing the new battery, the keyboard was not recognized and I still got the same old errors. Then, I tried booting up with the laptop plugged in to the wall (instead of through the battery alone - which was just about empty) and then I got the same error page, BUT the only error this time was "CMOS Checksum Invalid - run SCU". The keyboard still did not respond (although no keyboard error was listed this time). I completely took out the keyboard and rebooted and oddly enough, I still got no error about the keyboard not existing.

So, I tried an external keyboard this time, and with that one, I was able to enter the BIOS. There I reset everything to default factory settings and I entered the new date and time. I rebooted and was back in business. Then I shutdown, took out the external keyboard and re-plugged in the laptop keyboard. I rebooted and once again windows started up.

I don't know if maybe I hadn't inserting the laptop keyboard in all the way or what (after CMOS battery replacement), but in any case all is good now and the laptop has resurrected.

So key things were:
replacing the CMOS battery
resetting BIOS configuration

Thank you all again for all your input and help. I'm glad this story has a happy ending. This forum rocks!


PS - By the way, now in Windows, the processor is recognized as a Pentium III 866MHz. So, it matches what the actual CPU chip label says and not what my error window was telling me (that it was a celeron). So, that's good news too!

 

[Robertw18]

Hurray for happy endings!!!

 

[The_Other_One]

Hehe, i was expecting most of that to be related to the CMOS battery. Some odd errors with the keyboard and all, but I have seen where just getting into the CMOS once and saving will fix a lot. I guess in your laptop's case, it just had to be kicked a few times before it realized it's battery wasn't dead.

As for the Celeron deal, as I mentioned, it probably was running in a "safe" mode, with a lower bus speed. If you could of gotten to windows, I suspect it'd be at 66 or 100MHz FSB rather than 133MHz.

Well at least it's working again. Seeing as it's an 866MHz you must of had it for quite a while now, eh? Hopfully it'll last a good bit longer!