Linux and Windows and Macs, oh my!

Vince013

Vince013

New Member
Linux's core belief in the free distribution of their software will, in my opinion, eventually bring about severe competition between Linux distributors, Apple, and Microsoft. Microsoft and Apple rely on a lack of computer education and an obsession with games of the masses in order to keep people buying their software.

Why do Windows-haters buy Macs when they can easily get a Distribution of Linux off the internet for free in the form of an .iso or a live-cd. Is it because there is less research and time (work) involved in getting a Mac rather than a computer compatible with Linux? There may be less work, but there is certainly more money involved if you choose Macs over Linux as a sustitute for the 200-dollar Windows XP.

All you Mac-lovers out there, i think, don't understand that you are substituting one large corporation for another with a slighty, however growing, grasp on modern technology's distributers. You choose Apple and you will force it into the position Windows currently is now - a monopoly (hyperbole).

Open-source, free software will eventually be prevalent in our growing society. more people are becoming familiar with computer technology in this enlightened age of science and discovery.
 
Nice speech and how many distros have you run? As a Linux "newbie" here installing a distro until lately hasn't been such a "piece of cake" for those still trying to learn how to operate and maintain a system let alone learn all the Bash commands and techniques for installing a boot loader as well as a distro.

Finding drivers for MS geared hardwares is another task to perform while the corporations have invested in simplifying the installation of their OSs with each new version released. Linux remains based on the UNIX platform where the essential language there has to be learned from trial and error even though the newer distros now have seen improvements with their installers.
 
If you are starting out with linux, you should get the one that is designed like Windows. SuSE, Mandrake, and Zenwalk all fit that category, to name a few. any more questions you might have, just browse the forums at www.linuxquestions.org
 
I am well familiar with the forum there and others including the one for Zenwalk which still is not up and running at the moment. First the softwares used failed to see results. Then the installation later seen where due to the lack of information regarding the size needed for the root partition. The small 409mb iso image burned to cd-r needs a root of 2-3gb apparently.

Within days of discussing installation problems with one of the developers on the 2.8 release 3.0 was announced. From early indications some are still seeing some problems with hardwares while commenting on more backgrounds for the better Xfce desktop there. As soon as the iso is burned to a cd-r a look at the latest will be seen.
 
Vince013 said:
Linux's core belief in the free distribution of their software will, in my opinion, eventually bring about severe competition between Linux distributors, Apple, and Microsoft. Microsoft and Apple rely on a lack of computer education and an obsession with games of the masses in order to keep people buying their software.
Click to expand...
Software or OS?
Lack of computer education? for the people getting their first ever PC, than yes. However for everyone else, no.
Obsession with games? Maybe for MS, but Apple doesn't really try to compete in this feild.

Vince013 said:
Why do Windows-haters buy Macs when they can easily get a Distribution of Linux off the internet for free in the form of an .iso or a live-cd. Is it because there is less research and time (work) involved in getting a Mac rather than a computer compatible with Linux? There may be less work, but there is certainly more money involved if you choose Macs over Linux as a sustitute for the 200-dollar Windows XP.
Click to expand...
Maybe because PC's don't come preinstalled with Linux. Most average run of the mill computer user do not know how to install an OS so when the thought ever comes to mind, it's usually MS or Apple, never usually Linux. Additionally, Linux isn't the easiest of all to install or use when compared to Apple or MS when it comes to a first time computer user. They just will not know the commands needed to get certain things to run while in Apple or MS, it's more of finding it and clicking on it to start.

Vince013 said:
All you Mac-lovers out there, i think, don't understand that you are substituting one large corporation for another with a slighty, however growing, grasp on modern technology's distributers. You choose Apple and you will force it into the position Windows currently is now - a monopoly (hyperbole).
Click to expand...
If it does happen, it happens. Just stick with Linux and you will avoid this problem completely.

Vince013 said:
Open-source, free software will eventually be prevalent in our growing society. more people are becoming familiar with computer technology in this enlightened age of science and discovery.
Click to expand...
Yes, hopefully.
 
Well... now that that's said I am currently downloading the latest beta release of Vista that will be installed after moving a current storage partition behind what..? a dual boot of Zenwalk. While one is still in development as an open source the other will see a final fully functional release with an "easy to install" gui for those new to Windows.

With Zenwalk an open source I have to "relearn" the bash commands to perform any tasks while Vista simply uses a "mouse click". Having come from a "dos" origin that isn't a great difficulty. But the beginner at anything most will still run Windows or MAC first. Until thery know how to run any operating system they have to start with small steps. I'm a Linux "newbie" still after many years of Dos, 3.1, 9X, didn't run ME or 2K, and have been running XP. How do you coax someone who has no idea of even how to defrag a hard drive?
 
Some Linux Distributions, those i mentioned before, don't require you to learn bash commands just like Windows XP doesn't require you to know how to use Cmd, Msconfig, or Regedit.

When changing an OS, there is always a learning curve.
When discussing about advantages and disadvantages of the multiple OS's, let's not regard the learning curves and consider the following:

Price
Hardware dependencies and avaliability
Compatible software, including games
And The overall look and feel of the OS (cuz that's what the common man [or woman!] really cares about, right?)
___Windows is the most expensive of the three, with the latest verison of XP being 200 dollars, while every Linux distro is free. Their is such a variety, one must suit your need. Getting Linux and contributting to its growing community will bring about more hardware and software that is combatible with it. With less and less people using Windows and Macs, more people will start making their products combatible with Unix platforms(won't that be a dream-come-true).
___Unlike switching from one corporation to another, you will be switching from a corporation to a community, where operating systems and programs are various and free. Apple claims not to be a money-hungry corporation like they claim Microsoft to be, but one can't really believe that and trust them. All corporations are the same, in my book, however obvious that may seem. Apple is worse than Microsoft when it comes to limiting your choice of the hardware\software you put in your computer. You can't modify a Mac, but you can modify a PC.
___I'll end with this car analogy... Linux is a dragster; it will do one thing and do it well, and it doesn't care at all what it looks like - it just performs well. Windows is an SUV; it does many things, wasting gas, and it may not be the best at any of them. And Macs are luxury cars; they are the shiniest, with lots of bells and whistles.
 
You don't have to learn bash commands for Zenwalk? Here's one example for "configuring" a dual OS setup on a SATA drive.

append="resume2=swap:/dev/hda4 splash=silent "
boot = /dev/hda
bitmap=/boot/splash.bmp
bmp-table=234p,348p,1,4
bmp-colors=220,0,,255,220,
bmp-timer=539p,396p,220,0,
prompt
timeout = 50

At present I will working with Zenwallk 3.0 where Lilo or Grub will become the default boot loader. What do you do when you gat to the Lilo or Grub prompt? You will need to learn some bash commands real fast to get a distro running unless you already have Gag or Smart Boot Manager to work with.
 
PC eye said:
You don't have to learn bash commands for Zenwalk? Here's one example for "configuring" a dual OS setup on a SATA drive.

append="resume2=swap:/dev/hda4 splash=silent "
boot = /dev/hda
bitmap=/boot/splash.bmp
bmp-table=234p,348p,1,4
bmp-colors=220,0,,255,220,
bmp-timer=539p,396p,220,0,
prompt
timeout = 50

At present I will working with Zenwallk 3.0 where Lilo or Grub will become the default boot loader. What do you do when you gat to the Lilo or Grub prompt? You will need to learn some bash commands real fast to get a distro running unless you already have Gag or Smart Boot Manager to work with.
Click to expand...

I mentioned Zenwalk before because I heard that if you want to switch from Windows to Linux, get Zenwalk. I never worked with Zenwalk, so I assumed that, like my installation of SUSe a while back, it was all point-and-click and easy on the eyes (like a windows installation). I'm pretty sure I got my information from one of your threads... http://www.computerforum.com/56458-you-afraid-linux-zenwalk.html?highlight=Zenwalk

Text-based installation of Zenwalk is probably only an option.
 
While the newer distros have improved appearances and more user friendly features with the advancements seen in being open sourced explain why the minimum 300mb root while creating a 1gb root partition failed to see Zenwalk installed? Try 2.5 to 3gb there for a start. A first time pc user certainly won't know what Grub or Lilo are. You simply don't the "right click" to install drivers in device manager or delete files in folders.

Even for an advanced Windows user there's an effort required to install and run a Linux distro even with the improvements seen. How about installing drivers for video and sound or the board itself? Your reference to the thread started on Zebwalk does seem to pose a question as you will note.
 
I think a learning curve, however steep it may be, will more than compensate for otherwise paying 200$ for an Operating System. Especially to those who are on a tight budget.
Are you honestly displaying mercy for those who don't have enough brainpower to learn a few bash commands? Like the transition from Windows to a Mac, one will still be required to be familiar with the accompanied software and drivers.

It just pains me to think that some one would rather spend 200$ on an OS when they can get a free OS, albeit one that actually (God forbid) requires you to use your head a little. Simplicity is not always the best road to take. I guess it just depends on the person.
 
Who pays $200- when you can order XP with SP2 at this time for under $100? Unfortunately despite the successful installation of Zenwalk 3.0 Lilo still has failed to install. Windows and MAC have working installers that are far easiler to use then seeing a need for Grub or Lilo boot floppies when the loader doesn't install to the hard drive.

For a free OS far closer to being as self contained as Windows or MAC a "free" OS known as ReactOS is the closest comparison to NT, 2000, XP, and Winserver 2003. The 10year old OS is described at the home page here. http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html

The main page for the several downloadable packages is found at http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=6553
 
Guys, as OS or any software get improved day by day either its commercial or free. Just make yourself comfortable in any environtment.

For me, I prefer to do Java programming in Solaris 10 (Its UNIX based and now its free) since it give me better performance and its Java Desktop System make me feel good. I feel its IDE, I used netBeans works better on it.

But sometime I really want to run my games, watching movies that completely give me better performance and rich-feature like what Media Player have. I tried new Vista. Its cool.

If you are a programmer and wish to learn more on system and programming, you have to work on UNIX or any Linux distro, but If you just newbie, Macs and Windows will give you whatever you expect computer can do. Dont think about how it work, but enjoy it!

regards,

fachim
 
At this time I use trying to use more then Windows. Another freebie besides Linux or Solaris goes by the name of ReactOS based on the NT 4.0 core while still using Fat32. It's free like Linux but runs just like Windows.

ReactOS - The First Ten Years

ReactOS has been developed since 1996, the ReactOS Developers proudly present ReactOS 0.3.0 and at the same time celebrate the 10 year anniversary of the project.

Visit the "The First Ten Year" website special to learn more of the history of the ReactOS project. http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html
 
firsttimebuilder said:
how do u make a lunix comp
Click to expand...

It's a little more involced then the easy to run installer other operating systems have to simplify the installation process. Windows and Apple/MAC have the boot loader needed to start up Windows or the MAC operating system included. Some newer Linux distrobutions are finally starting to see easier to use installation tools for creating and formatting partitions as well as installation of one distro itself.

A good majority of the things performed under Linux require a knowledge of the Bash commands that are the closest to the original UNIX operating system type commands seen decades ago. If you have never seen an MS dos prompt you would have to read a few things on dos commands and how they work there. Linux has a more complex but not impossible language to learn. For most it takes longer to learn giving it the "Geeks OS" nickname.
 
Vince013 said:
Linux's core belief in the free distribution of their software will, in my opinion, eventually bring about severe competition between Linux distributors, Apple, and Microsoft. Microsoft and Apple rely on a lack of computer education and an obsession with games of the masses in order to keep people buying their software.

Why do Windows-haters buy Macs when they can easily get a Distribution of Linux off the internet for free in the form of an .iso or a live-cd. Is it because there is less research and time (work) involved in getting a Mac rather than a computer compatible with Linux? There may be less work, but there is certainly more money involved if you choose Macs over Linux as a sustitute for the 200-dollar Windows XP.

All you Mac-lovers out there, i think, don't understand that you are substituting one large corporation for another with a slighty, however growing, grasp on modern technology's distributers. You choose Apple and you will force it into the position Windows currently is now - a monopoly (hyperbole).

Open-source, free software will eventually be prevalent in our growing society. more people are becoming familiar with computer technology in this enlightened age of science and discovery.
Click to expand...
no...linux isn't marketted... people dont use windows because they think it is better, they use it because it comes with all the computers ppl buy... only people like us computer geeks care about computers that much ot chang our operating system... just us and like the %8 of the market that changes to apple and linux...
 
For most users at this time and date the concept of "dos commands" alone is more of a mystery for the most part. And Dos is MS. Now try taking someone who can bearly use a mouse and open a few programns let alone maintain a system and repair/reinstall Windows alone and push them into a Linux distro. You won't get very far there. In fact I have to redo a Zenwalk installation to hopefully get Lilo to finally install. Windows includes a boot loader.
 
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