macbook vs hp?

tlarkin

VIP Member
i wouldnt buy a porche because it would be impossible to insure

Yeah, I am just making an analogy, and to be honest car analogies aren't the best to computers either. However, you can't say that cheaper is better. Apple is very competitive for what you actually get. I won't get into specifics because you can just pull up any of my threads explaining why they aren't over priced. They are just high end, kind of like a Porsche.
 

DMGrier

VIP Member
I wouldn't say a mac is like a porsche, Those cars come with a lot of performance for the price, macs don't. Macbook start's at 1100$ and you get I think it's a 120 GB HDD, 2 GB memory and the crappy Intel x3100 graphic cards. For the price you could get a pc with twice the power.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
I wouldn't say a mac is like a porsche, Those cars come with a lot of performance for the price, macs don't. Macbook start's at 1100$ and you get I think it's a 120 GB HDD, 2 GB memory and the crappy Intel x3100 graphic cards. For the price you could get a pc with twice the power.

Macs have every feature out of the box. The graphics card only really purely matters for gaming. It doesn't help in any other application really. Porsche's also come with a lot of features which add up to it's performance.

I already said car analogies aren't that great for computers, but they are easy to use because most people can understand.
 

gamerman4

Active Member
If you look at computers with identical price:

Mac = A Porsche body with a Honda engine

Manufacturer PC = A Porsche with a Porsche engine

Custom Built PC = A Buick with a Lamborghini engine (because custom PCs are usually forced to have big, bulky ugly cases but they perform better than any manufactured Mac or PC.)

If you know nothing about computers and want the easiest experience and you just have a lot of money to blow, get a Mac

If you know enough about computers to fix simple problems that they all have (yes Macs crash, and in my experience, just as often as my PCs) the I would get a Windows PC (Vista has been made much better with SP1, I actually deleted my XP installation)

Basically I recommend Macs only for people that are complete electronic idiots that don't even know how to turn a computer on (old people, people that have never used a computer, etc....)

Windows can do more than OSX and it can't be argued, the only exception is out-of-the-box, OSX wins but thats why I recommend it for the technically declined. If you know how to download something then Windows is pretty much the winner in terms of features.

Thus if you are willing to spend $1000 on a mac, then just spend $1000 on a good Windows Laptop. If you want pretty white shiny laptops.....Sony makes em too.
 

tlarkin

VIP Member
If you look at computers with identical price:

Mac = A Porsche body with a Honda engine

Manufacturer PC = A Porsche with a Porsche engine

Custom Built PC = A Buick with a Lamborghini engine (because custom PCs are usually forced to have big, bulky ugly cases but they perform better than any manufactured Mac or PC.)

If you know nothing about computers and want the easiest experience and you just have a lot of money to blow, get a Mac

If you know enough about computers to fix simple problems that they all have (yes Macs crash, and in my experience, just as often as my PCs) the I would get a Windows PC (Vista has been made much better with SP1, I actually deleted my XP installation)

Basically I recommend Macs only for people that are complete electronic idiots that don't even know how to turn a computer on (old people, people that have never used a computer, etc....)

Windows can do more than OSX and it can't be argued, the only exception is out-of-the-box, OSX wins but thats why I recommend it for the technically declined. If you know how to download something then Windows is pretty much the winner in terms of features.

Thus if you are willing to spend $1000 on a mac, then just spend $1000 on a good Windows Laptop. If you want pretty white shiny laptops.....Sony makes em too.

The argument that Macs are for simple minded people is pretty ridiculous, and not valid. OS X is Unix, which means there is a robust command line. Add in things like Applescripts, shell scripting, automator, you have yourself a very and powerful plus robust operating environment. The fact that they made it simple and stream lined it, just goes to show you how efficient it really is. To try to say that Windows is better because it is more complicated is asinine. More complications equal less efficiency as well as less security. The registry for one, is the most bloated piece of crap thing I have ever encountered in an OS.

To say that custom built PCs are the best performance is also wrong. In the world of custom built PCs there is always the chance of incompatibility with different configurations. Granted, with the right configuration and if all the drivers and software play nice you can and will have a really decent system. You also have control of the parts that go into a custom build so typically they are higher quality.

To break it down for you since no one can apparently read specs on laptops, Apple only uses high quality parts. They for one use high quality LED LCD screens, which most PC laptops don't use. If you go build a Dell laptop spec for spec to a Mac they are very comparable in price. Adding the LED LCD high resolution screen typically adds about $350ish to the price tag. Now add things like ABGN wireless. Not all cards have A radios. Most of them are B/G. That adds to cost. Built in isight camera, bluetooth 2.0 EDR, back lit keyboard (pros only), SMS sensor, remote control, the fact that it is 1" thick, and then to top it all off, the software that comes with. Add all of those features to a PC and it will cost you loads more than a Mac would.

Now look at longevity. Macs that are 6 years old can run Leopard, and they can run it pretty well. I recently sold my G4 which was running Leopard with no problems. That G4 was around 6 years old. Tell me what PC that is 6 years old that can run Vista? Apple designs every aspect of their systems. From the hardware, the printed circuit boards, all the way up to the OS and a lot of applications. When you have that much control over the design of your systems, you typically have more quality.

Microsoft can't possibly design their OS to run specifically for every hardware configuration out there, that would not really be possible. So, they have a lot more third party. Windows actually can't do more than OS X, unless you are specifically talking about third party. Windows machines have more third party options, but that does not make Windows better. Quantity does not equal quality. Plus there is nothing Windows can do that a Mac can not, and vice versa.

So, really it depends on your preference, and what you want to do. You want a hassle free computer that is easy to use and just works and will last you at least 4 years if not longer then maybe look into getting a Mac. The only reason I sold my G4 is because I also have a G5 desktop and I wanted money to buy something else. Macs hold their resell value and I sold my G4 that was 5-6 years old for $400. You can't do that with a PC either.

If you want to build a computer then get a PC. You can kind of build a Mac but by the time you buy all the parts you'd be spending way too much money. If you want to be a hardcore gamer, then build a PC. If you want to just surf the web, do office documents and listen to music then maybe a Mac or a PC would work.
 

gamerman4

Active Member
Oh boy...alrighty

The argument that Macs are for simple minded people is pretty ridiculous, and not valid. OS X is Unix, which means there is a robust command line. Add in things like Applescripts, shell scripting, automator, you have yourself a very and powerful plus robust operating environment. The fact that they made it simple and stream lined it, just goes to show you how efficient it really is. To try to say that Windows is better because it is more complicated is asinine. More complications equal less efficiency as well as less security. The registry for one, is the most bloated piece of crap thing I have ever encountered in an OS.

Windows isn't more complicated, it is just not as pretty when doing basically the same thing. I have had a chance to play with the Automator a lot, definitely not for anyone but the more technical OSX users, the same can be said for any Windows-based macro solution. Simple? yes, only if you are willing to learn how to use it which the average user is not. Macros are really not for people that just want to use their computer anyways. Complexity is not "complicated", just because a lot of Windows apps have more advanced settings (things which many Apple apps don't have, iDVD for example.) doesn't mean that you have to use them.

To say that custom built PCs are the best performance is also wrong. In the world of custom built PCs there is always the chance of incompatibility with different configurations. Granted, with the right configuration and if all the drivers and software play nice you can and will have a really decent system. You also have control of the parts that go into a custom build so typically they are higher quality.

The reason many people build custom PCs is the price vs performance. In the world of custom built computers it takes informed decisions to make sure you don't get incompatibilities. Custom built computers are inherently cheaper because you have much less of a mark-up on the price. Even the crappy $400 emachines at walmart can be built for less.

To break it down for you since no one can apparently read specs on laptops, Apple only uses high quality parts. They for one use high quality LED LCD screens, which most PC laptops don't use. If you go build a Dell laptop spec for spec to a Mac they are very comparable in price. Adding the LED LCD high resolution screen typically adds about $350ish to the price tag. Now add things like ABGN wireless. Not all cards have A radios. Most of them are B/G. That adds to cost. Built in isight camera, bluetooth 2.0 EDR, back lit keyboard (pros only), SMS sensor, remote control, the fact that it is 1" thick, and then to top it all off, the software that comes with. Add all of those features to a PC and it will cost you loads more than a Mac would.

I agree about part quality in Macs but that is because the cheapest mac lappys are already $1100 at the lowest. Here is what $1100 buys you:
2.1Ghz C2D
1GB RAM (not even DDR2-800 but DDR2-667)
120GB Hard Drive
Not exactly a speed demon.
I couldn't care less about how thick a laptop is because the laptop case is always going to be bigger because you have to carry around all of your accessories and power adapter. Oh and with that $1100, no software comes with it. No iWork, FCE, etc.. iZilch


Now look at longevity. Macs that are 6 years old can run Leopard, and they can run it pretty well. I recently sold my G4 which was running Leopard with no problems. That G4 was around 6 years old. Tell me what PC that is 6 years old that can run Vista? Apple designs every aspect of their systems. From the hardware, the printed circuit boards, all the way up to the OS and a lot of applications. When you have that much control over the design of your systems, you typically have more quality.

Vista actually has roughly the same minimum specs as OSX and as long as you have a decent amount of RAM, I don't see why Vista wouldn't run on a 6 year old computer, of course not with Aero but Aero was made to take advantage of the graphics power of modern computers, not ancient ones. Also, once your computer is running an OS it will continue to run that OS, its not like as your computer gets older it somehow just loses the performance it had. The fact that Apple has so much control over their stuff is what irks me because I like tweaking things and doing stuff my way, thats why mine and everyone in my family that has a computer, has a computer built by me and no one has called me about issues with it, not even my grandmother.

Microsoft can't possibly design their OS to run specifically for every hardware configuration out there, that would not really be possible. So, they have a lot more third party. Windows actually can't do more than OS X, unless you are specifically talking about third party. Windows machines have more third party options, but that does not make Windows better. Quantity does not equal quality. Plus there is nothing Windows can do that a Mac can not, and vice versa.

The quantity does not equal quality doesn't actual measure up because not every app is a "quality" app. By having a larger user base, you actually have more chances of someone producing a high-quality app. Specifically from a third-party stance Windows can do more but not in a practical sense, it can do more in the face that someone, somewhere has made an app that is so specific to a certain group of people that it is very unlikely that it is multi-platform, this matters to me because I am often looking for very obscure software that probably wouldn't exist for OSX.

So, really it depends on your preference, and what you want to do. You want a hassle free computer that is easy to use and just works and will last you at least 4 years if not longer then maybe look into getting a Mac. The only reason I sold my G4 is because I also have a G5 desktop and I wanted money to buy something else. Macs hold their resell value and I sold my G4 that was 5-6 years old for $400. You can't do that with a PC either.

Well considering they start out priced so high, of course they will sell for higher than PCs later on. Also, it is in the consumer mindset that Macs are expensive so you are more likely to get a good price for it if they "think" they are getting a bargain.

If you want to build a computer then get a PC. You can kind of build a Mac but by the time you buy all the parts you'd be spending way too much money. If you want to be a hardcore gamer, then build a PC. If you want to just surf the web, do office documents and listen to music then maybe a Mac or a PC would work.

Not really.
http://lifehacker.com/software/hack-attack/build-a-hackintosh-mac-for-under-800-321913.php

illegal? thanks to Apple. Awesome? yup

Also, if you just want to do office docs, listen to music....wouldn't you want the cheapest option since even 10 year old crappy PCs can do that. I just recently built my mom a computer from newegg for almost exactly $300 that has a 2.6 Ghz E2180 (OCd it a tad), 1GB of RAM and a 320GB hard drive.

basically it is the Power Users that rant and rave (im guilty) about their OS of choice because we Power Users are smart enough to make do with the resources given so we will always find ways of doing what their needs are. All power-users know how to get those obscure pieces of freeware and good old open-source projects. It is the power user that drives the hype.
I love Windows but even though it may have sounded like it, I don't hate Macs, they are exceedingly easy to use for basic things but if you want to go past the basics (things that even Ubuntu can do) you MUST get your hands dirty. Final Cut Pro (love it BTW) is just as easy to use as Adobe Premiere (love it as well).

I am biased for the sole fact that I like getting a bargain and the most for my money. If I had a lot of cash to blow, I would love to be both a Mac and PC user.
 
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tlarkin

VIP Member
I'll give you the "mac way" argument because I agree with you on that one. However, my point still stands. Cheap PC laptops don't have the high quality LED LCD screens. Those just plain cost more, and Apple uses the highest end parts.

Automator by the way, is way easier to use than any macro. You can just record actions and save them and then with a little bit of learning turn them into automated tasks.

I am extremely biased because I am a system administrator by trade, and have managed very large deployments of every platform. 10,000 Windows PCs plus 80 HP Proliant Servers running Netware, Suse Linux and Windows Server 2k3. Now I run 30 Xserves running OS X 10.5 server and manage 6,000 Mac clients. I have been on both sides, used, fixed, maintained, repaired, and owned every single platform. I am really truly someone who uses both Macs and PCs in depth and has a decent understanding of both.

When I say it is about preference it really truly is. Why get a Macbook Pro or a Macbook over a PC laptop?

-OS X is stable, secure, and has very little of the nasty things like viruses that go out and attack you

-It being 1" thick and weighing under 6 lbs is awesome, because I lug mine around every where, every day for work, and I am sometimes very mobile at work

It is all about preference, but the next time you think they are over priced go look at the PC that you are comparing it to, and look to see if they do match up spec for spec. LED LCD screens are way expensive, which is what drives the price up of the Mac laptops. Compare an iMac to a desktop but add in the monitor and everything else and all the standard features you get with the iMac, and they are very evenly priced. That is if you want to compare only hardware specs.

And come on, a 6 year old PC run Vista? No, Leopard's minimum required specs are 867 G4 processor and 512 MB of RAM and I think 10 or 8 gigs of HD space. That is pretty low for what Leopard can do.
 
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gamerman4

Active Member
And come on, a 6 year old PC run Vista? No, Leopard's minimum required specs are 867 G4 processor and 512 MB of RAM and I think 10 or 8 gigs of HD space. That is pretty low for what Leopard can do.

Well I looked up both the Vista (Home Basic which doesn't have Aero for obvious reasons) and Leopard minimum specs and they are almost the same.

I agree that Automator is a pretty easy macro app but its stil a macro app so you pretty much have to be a power user to realise Mac even has it and to even know what a macro is. I have come across so many people that think every program that is installed on OSX is what is on the dock, they don't even know that there is a "programs" option when they open the hard drive.

About OSX is stable, yes it is, so is Vista. OSX has less viruses for reasons outside of it being a "secure OS"

Mobility is a good point and it is hard to find a portable laptop with Windows without having to order one off the internet with only a few options to choose from (currently, I am saving up for an eeePC, yes I realise its slowish but its still great.)

Apple puts very good LCDs in all of their products from the iPhone to the iMac, they are great. I have a 24" Acer screen that cost me $400 and it has great color accuracy but the iMac has a little better contrast than it. Also, making it glossy is kind of a cheap way of making it look like it has added contrast, I like my matte screen. I am not a big fan of the viewing angle of the iMac (even then newest one) but that is a minor issue.

And also, next month I'm getting one of the new uber-slim iMac keyboards for my PC because its nice and I can type really fast with it, if only I could see how the DiNovo Edge performs as well...

Now that I think of it, I'm totally going to find an old ass computer and throw a half a gig of RAM and install Vista. just gimme some time to find one.....hmm my grandma has a 5 year old lappy....
 

TrainTrackHack

VIP Member
Personally, I would get the HP. For an average user, PCs usually offer better value than macs - macs are more of a thing for professionals; Macs have things like Adobe CS3 and many other professional products/suites available on them, many that you can't get for PC. Macs are more stable and secure than Windows, by the very nature of being based on unix. Because of their stability and security, Macs (or any computers with unix-like/based operating systems for that matter) are something that you frequently see being used in universities, at research labs, as servers, by hackers&execs and so on, by people that need secure, stable computer systems, but very few average users are willing to get a mac, simply because windows has a lot larger user base and a lot more software/stuff available on them (not talking about professional suites here), and macs are rather pricey.

Of course my opinion is biased... I use both windows and Linux, and the only thing Macs appear to have over those two is ease of use (windows is, well, windows, and usually you need to be just a tiny bit geeky to make any use of Linux), but that's something I don't consider a big plus. For an average user, Vista or XP are very easy-to-use, my family (apart form me they're all a bunch of computer illiterates) can easily figure out how to use something on XP/Vista, even my grampa has no difficulties using Windows even though he's about as good with computers as a dead bird. When it comes to more advanced/technical stuff, well, we have at least tlarkin's word that Windows is a pain.

Also, I really hate the apple logo - of course, it makes sense to have an apple as a logo when the name of the company is Apple, but having a glowing apple on your computer... I just find it childish - imagine having a glowing banana sticker on your laptop - I just don't like it. Other than that, the design of Macs is great, but I still prefer PCs. Macs have heaps features PCs don't, but the only one of them I would find useful is the keyboard with a backlight.

As for the weight of the macbook, think working out :)P), I can hold my big, bulky lappy on my left arm extended for hours at once, size/weight is no consideration for me. If it matters to you, you may want to get the macbook.

Again, IMO PC would be a better option for an average user, but that's just my opinion.
 
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