Need workstation build advice -- have some specific needs!

S

saturnine23

New Member
Hi! So glad I discovered this forum -- you guys are awesome. I haven't built a computer in years and feel very behind the times.

My current workstation is an old beast -- a 1GHz frankenputer that served me well for 7 years. It recently started resetting without warning. I've had power supply and cooling issues with it before, and I'm sick of these problems. Add on the general sluggishness, annoying stuff like only having USB 1.1, and the bulky footprint ... and it's time to upgrade!

My budget tops out around $700. I can go higher, given a compelling reason to do so. But I'm putting all of this on my credit card, so I don't really want to go on a spree.

Here are some additional requirements:

HD: I would really value being able to keep my current HD (Seagate Barracuda 7200 RPM 160 gig -- not sure of the connection, but I can find out if necessary) with Win XP installed. Being able to plug my old HD into my new righ would be an immense help, not to mention a time-saver. If that's an impossibility, I'd love a recommendation for how to convert my current HD to a USB external. Which leads me to ...

OS: I'd prefer to stick with XP as my OS unless you can give me some very compelling reasons to upgrade to Win 7. I have tons of software that's very settled into XP, and XP has always been stable for me. I would strongly prefer not to shell out for a new version of Windows.

Case: I would love a case that has a very small physical footprint. All I need to install in terms of hardware is one DVD-R and one hard drive. Something like this, with lots of front-accessible ports, is really attractive to me. (I use TONS of USB peripheral devices, including an external HDD.) Looks are of secondary importance, so if ugly saves money, let's beat that case with the ugly stick. :D

Processor: I think some kind of Intel multi-core proc would be best suited for me. I routinely run Photoshop, full screen hi-quality movies, and Firefox with A LOT of tabs. Multi-tasking is a big part of my work, so I need a system that can do that with speed and stability.

RAM: My current RAM has ECC, and I've had a really good experience with that. Don't know if ECC is standard on RAM nowadays, or if/how it has improved over time, but it's a feature I'd like -- again, unless given compelling reasons to do differently.

Graphics card: Again, I have a graphics card already, so I'd just as soon not shell out for one. However, it's ancient (it's an ATI AGP RADEON 9000 64MB VGA DVI-I TVOUT). If I can get a significantly better one for chump change, I want to, even if it's still considered old by current standards. Multi-monitor capability would be nice, if silly. Would help me do my work writing on one screen while researching on another.

As far as gaming goes, if this rig will let me play Half-Life 2 someday, I'll be thrilled. My gaming needs are pretty satisfied by my roommates' Xbox 360 and Wii - I already spend way too much time playing Borderlands. :P

One last note: Long-term, I need to get a lot of life out of my investment. I'm interested in system stability and longevity. If overclocking will significantly reduce that, then I don't want to overclock. If adding cooling will increase stability and longevity, then let's!

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP. Any advice would be most appreciated.
 
700 is a pretty tight budget for a workstation. Motherboards that support ECC can get pretty pricey, as are n processors that go with them. They're usually server-class boards.

What are you going to be doing?


edit: Also, was your frankencomputer store-bought? If so, you can't transfer windows over.
 
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Thanks for the quick reply! Does ECC really keep systems that stable? Is it worth it to cough up the extra cash for it as compared to a non-ECC system?

Basically, I'm a freelance music writer and photographer, so I do a lot of MS Word, Photoshop, Firefox, MP3 downloading and listening. I'm also a massage therapist, so I use web apps to send out mass e-mails, and even more graphic design in Photoshop. I don't need to do any serious number-crunching or database stuff or whatever.
 
ECC stands for error checking and correction, and basically it helps to keep the system from crashing. Its generally designed for systems that need constant uptime, like servers, so you should be ok without it.

If the system is connected to the internet, I would really advise going to Win7. It's much more secure. Actually I would advise keeping your workstation disconnected form the internet, but that doesn't seem to be possible in your situation, since the old rig is failing.

I do need to know what your other rig is, btw. If it's branded, like Dell or HP, you'll need a new OS.


Another question: Could you make it to any of the locations on this page?
http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/index.html

That store provides amazing prices, but it's in-store only. There's a few locations that may be within driving distance for you. Google says Yonkers is only an hour and a half from Middletown.
 
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Thanks, Drenlin. I just did some reading myself about ECC, and I'm not really sure how/why it ended up in my current desktop (other than the fact that it was built by an uber-nerd back in 2003). :) I think you're right; we can do without it.

Other info about my old rig:
Mobo: ASUS A7V266-E
Processor: think it's an AMD; struggling to get the heat sink off :(
PS: Enlight Corp 250W
RAM: Apacer 512MB UNB PC2100 CL2
DVD-R: Lite-On (starting to act a little malfunctiony, but will probably work in a new rig)
Sound is onboard the mobo and works just fine.

As for MicroCenter, I can drive to the Boston store. However, it would cost me about $30-$40 in gas to get there and back home, so it's only worth it for me to drive if I'll save more than that in store (plus I won't have to pay S&H like I would for online orders). Let me know if you think we can beat NewEgg or eBay or whoever.
 
So your other rig was a homebuilt one? That means you can transfer windows over if you want, though it may require a reinstall.

Google says yonkers is 1/2 hour closer than boston...?

Depending on the build, it could be very possible to beat newegg.

To demonstrate, the i7 920 is $289 at newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115202&cm_re=i7_920-_-19-115-202-_-Product

At microcenter, it's $230
http://microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0302727

Newegg is cheaper sometimes, so the build would probably be a mix of newegg and microcenter, provided enough money gets saved. If not newegg is ok...their prices aren't exactly bad, lol. For online stores they're usually the best in the business.
 
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Yes, the old rig was homebuilt. I'm also very meticulous about backups so luckily I'm not very worried about data loss in this case. That external HD is a lifesaver.

I would go to Boston over Yonkers because I have friends in Boston and lived there for a while. I know exactly where that MicroCenter is. :) I'd probably crash with a friend for the night and turn it into a field trip :)

Do you have any parts recommendations?
 
I will in a few moments. Trying to work out weather an Intel or AMD system is the better option right now.

Since you're staying with XP, that frees up ~$100 to work with, so it may be intel...
 
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Alright, got it. Microcenter wasn't sufficiently cheaper, so it's all newegg except the case. Zipzoomfly often has better case prices because they ship everything free.

CPU- Core i5 750- $200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

Mobo- MSI P55M-GD45 $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130246

RAM- G-Skill Ripjaws 2x2GB- $85
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231277

PSU- Corsair CMPSU-550VX- $80 (after $10 rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139004

DVD Burner- Lite-On 24x with lightscribe- $31
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335

Hard Drive- Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB- $55 (much faster than whatever would be in your old system)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152181

GPU- MSI Radeon HD 4550- $30 (after $15 rebate) (agp cards won't fit in newer motherboards)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127458

Case- Aerocool M-40- $80 (I think you'll like this :) )
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007801

Case Fans- 2x Cooler Master 80mm- $16 ($8 each)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999069

Total- $697

I'm pretty sure it can even pull off half-life, though probably not on full, lol. It can do dual screens. :)
 
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AWESOME!

Some questions for you:

1: Are there any parts on this rig that you're kind of disappointed in? As in, there's a better part that's a little more expensive but gives a lot more bang? You did an impressive job of staying inside $700, but remember, for me that number isn't as fixed as it is for some people. Another way to put it: is there any part where an upgrade would significantly increase the usable life of the computer?

2: I totally forgot to tell you this before, totally my fault: I have an HP LaserJet 1100 printer. The thing is a beast -- it's awesome. Very low page count for its age and I want to hang on to it. But it uses an old LPT port. I didn't see an LPT port on the MSI board. Is there a converter cord or something similar that I can buy to keep using my printer?

3: I found this case on eBay and it comes with a power supply. Now, I've never invested in a nice power supply before. (And this might be why my current PC is currently dying! Dunno.) It's the same price as the other case you quoted, and it has free shipping as well. Seems about the same size with the same number of ports on the front. Which do you think is better and why? Would you recommend getting the case from eBay and ditching the nice power supply from NewEgg?

4: I noticed the new drive you're recommending is SATA. Will my old drive work -- will I be able to put it in the new rig? I'd be just fine with a slow drive if my old one will work. If not, I'd still love to have the old one as a secondary internal. If I'm right and the old one is EIDE, is there any way to make it work in the new rig? Or will I have to buy an external USB enclosure?

5: Here's a random one for you. My current Lite-On DVD-R burner does this weird thing where if I eject a disc, the tray opens, stays open for a second or two, closes again, then opens again, then closes again. Weird! Other than that, it works just fine. Do you think I should shell out for the new burner? Is my old one biting the dust as we speak?
 
1: The GPU and power supply are the weak links...mostly the GPU. The power supply is a good one but if you want to get a better GPU you might want a bigger one. The GPU itself is pretty terrible compared to modern ones, but it's still better than integrated. Like I said, it will play HL2. Not much more though.

2: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...17&cm_re=lpt_port_card-_-15-317-017-_-Product :)

3: That's a mini ITX case...normal motherboards won't fit in it. It's quite a bit smaller than the one I posted, lol.

4: It will work, but it will seriously bog down the system. It's also quite old, which means it's probably near the end of its life. You're better off backing your data up and reinstalling on the new drive. (You'll have to reinstall the OS anyway since you're moving to a new motherboard)

5: It probably is dieing, yeah. That or there's a bug in a driver somewhere. Either way, the new one has lightscribe, which could be useful for you. It also burns dual-layer DVD's, which are a decent way to back stuff up on the cheap.
 
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Rockin'!

So I have a few more annoying questions :P Thank you so much for being patient with me.

Do you think Mini ITX is out of the picture for me? If so, what's knocking it out of play -- are the smaller parts more expensive?

In the future, if I want to upgrade to Win 7, will I be able to with this config?
 
It's all good :)

Mini ITX uses much less powerful platforms. Generally, they roughly equate to a netbook in power. There are a few systems that are designed to take socket 775 CPU's, but they're generally designed for low-power dual core cpu's.

And yes, you can definitely upgrade to win7 with that. :good:
 
Ok, so now I'm looking at possibly keeping my old HDD in the new rig as a secondary drive. You told me earlier that the old HDD would work in the new rig. It'll definitely fit in the case, but the old HDD is EIDE, and it doesn't look like there's any EIDE connections on the new mobo. Is there some conversion cable I can use? Do I have to buy some kind of converter card?
 
Assuming EIDE means ATA2, it will work with no adapter. There's both a PATA/IDE and a floppy drive port on that mobo. :good:

Oh, and just to give you an idea of how much faster SATA is, EDIE has a maximim throughput of 16.6 MB/s, while SATA has ~3000MB/s. (it stated at 1.5GB/s and moved to 3GB/s, and is now moving again to 6GB/s)
 
So now we have the million dollar question.

Since I can include my old HDD inside the case as a secondary drive, and since I already have a 1TB external for all my excess media, should I go with an SDD for my OS and basic programs? Cutting down on the load time would make this whole upgrade significantly more worth it to me -- not to mention that the budget money we put towards the HDD could now go towards the SSD, which means I won't get TOO too far from my initial budget.

That's the hope, at least ;)

I'd need something between 40 and 64 gigs to reliably have room to upgrade to Win 7 in the future, and still have room for updates, big programs (Photoshop, Cool Edit, etc.), as well as some free space for page files, scratch space, hibernate, etc.

I can't seem to make heads or tails of the specs on SSDs, though. No clue about these weird dimensions ...

Any recommendations? The key for me, as I mentioned, is decreasing load times and increasing overall speed/responsivity.
 
I don't think SSD's are really stable enough for that yet. You're better off getting 2-4 rather fast regular drives and running them in some sort of RAID array.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAID

The drive I listed is $50 now, btw...I'll edit the post.

Also, you might want to check this out...photoshop supports it:
http://www.amd.com/US/PRODUCTS/TECHNOLOGIES/STREAM-TECHNOLOGY/Pages/stream-technology.aspx

All HD4xxx and HD5xxx GPU's support it, including the one in the above build. Pretty cool stuff. Nvidia has it too (CUDA) but ATI offers more power for the price.

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Alright man, it's ordered! The prices changed a little from when you first put it together, but it was more or less the same.

I wanna send you cookies or something! You've been such a huge help!
 
Nah, for real! If you're comfortable with it, you should e-mail me your address and I'll send you some goodies. saturnine23@gmail.com.

Also, I'd love to try and troubleshoot my old rig. Is this the right forum for it? I think it has something to do with the non-CPU chipset on my mobo overheating... But replacement fans were a pain to find. Is this a common question that gets asked here -- is there some FAQ that I can read first?
 
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