New Computer for Father's day!!!

[Bobo]

Sorry for the double post, but I didn't want to make an insanely long one

To flanker: I have an HP computer, so I will be speaking for bigsaucybob to answer some of your questions here

By {lower quality} Please give some facts to backup your statement?

They are not necessarily lower quality, but they take the bottom end boards and mess with the BIOS so that the user can't change anything

Just what brand RAM is being used?

They basically use whatever is the cheapest, I had Hyundai RAM in mine, which I had never heard of (actually, I thought it was just a car company)

Just what brand is the Mother Board in my computer? And what gives you the idea the case is [not compatible with other cases}?

The motherboard in mine is an Asus, i don't know what bigsaucybob is talking about, because i have mine in a different case right now, and it works fine. I just can't have the same floppy drive.

What brand and wattage is in my computer? What give you the idea it will need upgrading?

Mine is a 300W, 18A. If you know anything about computers, that will tell you that I can't put anything very good into it.

So just what is all the {pre-loaded with so much crap}? If I don't want someting loaded I will remove it.

Things like Norton cannot be uninstalled without a format

And please don't stay up past your bedtime.

Enough with the smartalecky noobism

 

[liquidshadow]

What does sober have anything to do with anything? Don't make retarded statements.
First of all, do you know anything about economics? Use the least amount of resources to gain the most profit? Exactly what retail computer manufacturers usually do. That's why their motherboards are "cheap" and unoverclockable. You asked, "So?" when someone said it was unoverclockable. Obviously, either you don't know what overclocking is or you're just being dumb. It's called "to get more performance for less money". Does that get through your thick head? You might not need to overclock but others may want to or need to.
It's not just motherboards. Their RAM is poor compared to brand-name companies. First off, have you seen their timings? They aren't the best. They don't have heatsinks which would make them more overclockable. Their RAM chips are lacking in "quality".
Also, let's consider this. You said that the computer you chose was better than thousands of dollars worth of a custom computer. My computer was only $1200 and it clearly beats yours. Look at my sig if you need info.
You call that a graphics card? Tell me what it can play at high settings besides Tetris .
Finally, my concluding statement: This is not a thread about your computer so stop making dumb comments that are of no use.

 

[holyjunk]

Wow, I feel special! I was included in the same sentence as Omega!

Anyway....

Newegg does not have the AM2 X2 series, but they are out. I would suggest going with AM2, because it is an improvement over s939

So here we are:
Motherboard:
MSI K9N Platinum AM2
$115

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
$297
*note* I have never bought from Monarch Computers, generally I buy from Newegg, Zipzoomfly, and Tigerdirect, but they are a recommended site, and carry the X2 AM2 processors

GPU:
eVGA Geforce 7900GT
$275
*note* I highly doubt that you need SLI. The 7900GT by itself will perform very well on all modern games

HDD:
WD Caviar 320GB
$115

RAM:
G.SKILL 1GB DDR2-800
$120
I went with the DDR2-800, because on all DDR2 RAM the CAS latencies are very high, so you will get faster performance with the increased speed. If your budget can support it, then get 2 sticks

SOUND:
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2
$75

OPTICAL:
BenQ 16X Lightscribe Drive
$44
I don't know if you will need Lightscribe, but it is really cool to have and doesn't really raise the price by much

CASE:
Cooler Master Centurion 5
$45
*note* this is a very good case, but it doesn't have any of those fancy bells and whistles. If you want that, find another one. I was having a little bit of trouble getting this into the budget

PSU:
XCLIO 480W
$64

So all of that comes to $1150 (I think, I was doing it in my head)
If I remember correctly, there are $60 worth of rebates in there if you buy it now, but there is also shipping, so it will come out to basically $1200

Possible upgrades in the future:
Upgrade the 3800 to something better.
2GB of RAM

Ya, I kinda of forgoten a couple things. That system looks pretty good to me.
-I really don't think lightscribe is necessary. In my opinion why put fancy lables on cds?

 

[mgoldb2]

This whole thread gave me a headache. flanker Asked a question. Every one proceeded to call him an idiot. Then you say he the one that should be banned?

First of all when someone says something incorrect you provide them with why they incorrect not just call them an idiot.

If I asked a question and the answer was because I know more then you with out giving me a single piece of information I would have had the same response he had.

To flanker

He looking for gaming and the 7300GS in that computer is not a good option for gaming. From my experience if you try to find a good graphic card in a pre-built with all the same specs except the graphics card of another pre-built computer the price is going to jump a lot more then the difference in prices of the graphic cards.

Generally the power supply given won’t power something like an x1900XT but I don’t know for sure about this particular HP since that the one part of the computer that HP don’t give any information on at all.

Finally under the assumption that he don’t need any of the software that comes with the computer except maybe windows you can build a higher spec computer then that HP for the same price.

As for quality it depends on what you do with the computer. The Ram is 533 MHz which is lower spec DDR2 then most people buy today. The motherboard support up too 677mhz ram which is still lower then the 800mhz ram that most new computer support these days. I am talking only about AMD M2 and Intel since AMD skt 939 still uses DDR ram not DDR2.

If you into over clocking it more then likely you simply won’t have the bio options needed with that computer. Then again someone that buying a computer for over clocking simply would never think about buying a HP to begin with.

It is not that the HP a horrible computer I known people that had HP computers for 5 years with out having a single problem with it. It more that you can generally get more for your money when building. If you a heavy gamer or an over clocker custom building is really the only good options. Unless you want to pay big bucks to someone like Voodoo to make you one.

 

[LSR]

This whole thread gave me a headache. flanker Asked a question. Every one proceeded to call him an idiot. Then you say he the one that should be banned?

First of all when someone says something incorrect you provide them with why they incorrect not just call them an idiot.

Noone called him an idiot.
People called him a noob after he decided he was right and everyone else was wrong, that much is just plain obvious.

Now once again in ENGLISH PLEASE.

^This doesn't really help his cause.

And neither does his smart alek comments regarding just about everything.

Where did I post I bought it for playing games?

A fair point, but he was just pointing out that the P4 is not the best for gaming, and for the same price you can get a chip which is just as good for everything else AND better for gaming.

And please don't stay up past your bedtime.

Really makes people want to help you..


Anyway, Bobo's setup looks good.
And yeah, it is $1150.

 

[way2evil]

HP:

1. There motherboards are lower quality then an after market board
===
By {lower quality} Please give some facts to backup your statement?
====

2. They are not overclockable
====
So?
====

3. The one you posted a link to was a P4, not the best by any means for gaming
===
Where did I post I bought it for playing games?
====

4. There RAM is cheaper, which also means it is not as overclockable
===
Just what brand RAM is being used?
====

5. They are harder to upgrade in the future, the case is not compatible with other motherboards and the motherboard is not compatible with other cases
===
Just what brand is the Mother Board in my computer? And what gives you the idea the case is [not compatible with other cases}?
===

6. The PSU is a standard low wattage low priced PSU, which means if you want to upgrade your GPU. You will probably need to upgrade the PSU
===
What brand and wattage is in my computer? What give you the idea it will need upgrading?
====

7. You will regret buying an HP, they come pre-loaded with so much crap on them.
====
So just what is all the {pre-loaded with so much crap}? If I don't want someting loaded I will remove it.

I hope I am not asking you to really work hard giving any answers to my questions. And please don't stay up past your bedtime.

1. Lower Quality, They have a contract with Asus to make a real cheap mobo only compatible with what they use. And if you dont order a video card with your HP, you get a board with an AGP slot.

2. In most cases the CPU that is in the PC is not powerful so you want to overclock it. thanks to HP, you cant.

3. Dont care

4. Heres the problem with mine. THERE IS NO BRAND! its just generic crap ram.

5. Its an Asus. Its a standard ATX case and i have my mobo in another computer working fine.

6. If you ever want to upgrade your video card you will need to get a new PSU. I learned this the hard way.

7. Like Bobo said, Norton wont go away without reformatting it. And if you use the driver CD the computer came with, Here comes Norton again

 

[Bobo]

Ya, I kinda of forgoten a couple things. That system looks pretty good to me.
-I really don't think lightscribe is necessary. In my opinion why put fancy lables on cds?

Because it is like $5 more than a regular drive Doesn't matter

Guys, let's please stay on topic here. This thread is about a guy getting a new computer for father's day, not HP computers. If you want to discuss that more, create a new thread

 

[flanker]

So long

Since I now know this is mostly just a gamers forum and I have no need for any gaming hardware Info. I won't be bothering posting here again. I thank the few who gave me advice on other subjects.And with that said. So long.
DK

 

[gALOSAT]

Wow, I feel special! I was included in the same sentence as Omega!

Anyway....

Newegg does not have the AM2 X2 series, but they are out. I would suggest going with AM2, because it is an improvement over s939

So here we are:
Motherboard:
MSI K9N Platinum AM2
$115

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+
$297
*note* I have never bought from Monarch Computers, generally I buy from Newegg, Zipzoomfly, and Tigerdirect, but they are a recommended site, and carry the X2 AM2 processors

GPU:
eVGA Geforce 7900GT
$275
*note* I highly doubt that you need SLI. The 7900GT by itself will perform very well on all modern games

HDD:
WD Caviar 320GB
$115

RAM:
G.SKILL 1GB DDR2-800
$120
I went with the DDR2-800, because on all DDR2 RAM the CAS latencies are very high, so you will get faster performance with the increased speed. If your budget can support it, then get 2 sticks

SOUND:
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2
$75

OPTICAL:
BenQ 16X Lightscribe Drive
$44
I don't know if you will need Lightscribe, but it is really cool to have and doesn't really raise the price by much

CASE:
Cooler Master Centurion 5
$45
*note* this is a very good case, but it doesn't have any of those fancy bells and whistles. If you want that, find another one. I was having a little bit of trouble getting this into the budget

PSU:
XCLIO 480W
$64

So all of that comes to $1150 (I think, I was doing it in my head)
If I remember correctly, there are $60 worth of rebates in there if you buy it now, but there is also shipping, so it will come out to basically $1200

Possible upgrades in the future:
Upgrade the 3800 to something better.
2GB of RAM

Thanks Bobo for the solid repply.

I really liked your suggestion.

One thing you mentioned was to maybe upgrade the 3800 to something better, what do you mean? Faster cpu or different type?

And what's the case you would buy that has the wistles?

Please let me know and maybe I'll go up a little more on my budget.
Maximum of $1.400.00

Thank you again!

Galosat.

 

[way2evil]

for the 3800 he means a faster chip like the 4200 or 4400. for the case, he just gave you a standard case. a "bells and whistles" case has like the neons or something or like this one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129017

 

[Bobo]

One thing you mentioned was to maybe upgrade the 3800 to something better, what do you mean? Faster cpu or different type?

I didn't necessarily mean now, I have a feeling that AMD is going to use the AM2 socket to come out with a new and better processor in the future. But yes, you can, for about $70 more, get a 4400.

And what's the case you would buy that has the wistles?

Not real whistles I meant like windows and that stuff. Unless youu want them, there is no reason for lights and windows, but in general those cases have better cooling.

Please let me know and maybe I'll go up a little more on my budget.
Maximum of $1.400.00

I'll include the shipping price, because it will be a considerable amount

Motherboard:
MSI K9N Platinum AM2

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+
($360 w/ shipping from Monarch Computers)

RAM:
G.SKILL 1GB DDR2-800

HDD:
WD Caviar 320GB

GPU:
XFX Geforce 7900GT Extreme

SOUND:
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2

CASE:
Thermaltake SViking

PSU:
HIPER 580W

From Newegg, shipping to my house, it would cost $978.14. Add the $360 from Monarch, and it is $1338.14, right in the budget.

Everything that I put on there is very good quality, top of the line stuff. The only thing that I am not sure about is the RAM.

Could somebody else give some opinions on what RAM should be with this system? I don't know a whole lot about DDR2, with the speeds and latencies.

edit: I forgot to put the optical drive in that list, it is the same one in my last post. It was included in the price.

 

[holyjunk]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145566
I would go with this just so you could run it in dual channel mode.

 

[Bobo]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145566
I would go with this just so you could run it in dual channel mode.

Yeah, that is a good idea.

Does anybody know for sure if the RAM will run at DDR800 speeds? Because I have seen a lot of articles saying that the RAM does not run at the correct speed. Both the processor and the motherboard support DDR2-800, but will it run at that speed?

 

[Jet]

Yeah, that is a good idea.

Does anybody know for sure if the RAM will run at DDR800 speeds? Because I have seen a lot of articles saying that the RAM does not run at the correct speed. Both the processor and the motherboard support DDR2-800, but will it run at that speed?

I don't know for that particular ram and board, but unless there is some weird incompatibility issue between them the memory should run at the DDR2-800 speed.

 

[Geoff]

Yeah, that is a good idea.

Does anybody know for sure if the RAM will run at DDR800 speeds? Because I have seen a lot of articles saying that the RAM does not run at the correct speed. Both the processor and the motherboard support DDR2-800, but will it run at that speed?

I had a similar concern with mine, since I bought DDR2-800 and it said my motherboard supported DDR2-800. As it turned out, it did run at DDR2-800, but the performance was exactly the same as DDR2-667 (bandwidth wise), thats why i decided to just lower the timings and have it ru at DDR2-667.

The only way for me to get it to "true" DDR2-800 speeds was to have it set at DDR2-667, and just raise the FSB until the memory was around DDR2-800 speeds, and only then did the memory bandwidth increase.

 

[Dr Studly]

Hey Guys, the wife just told me I'm getting a new computer for father's day! Cool hah!

SO guys I need your help.

My budget is US$1.200.00 for Tower: Case, mobo, Cpu, Cideo card sound card, memory and a dvd burner.

Usage: I will be using for surfing, burning dvd's, gaming, and some video converting.

Don't need keyboard, mouse or monitor.

Guy's please help me build the best pc for my buck,

Thank you!

Galosat.

alrighty, lemme work my magic...

Processor AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Dual-Core 1MB Per Core 90nm (Socket AM2) - $321
Motherboard:MSI K9N Neo-F ATX AMD Motherboard - $83
RAM: OCZ Gold Series 2GB (2 x 1GB) DDR2 667 (PC2 5400) - $150
Video Card: MSI Radeon X1800XT 512MB - $270
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS - $65
Optical Drive:get this either in black, silver, or beige... depending on what case you get - $35
Harddrive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 250GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - $80
Power Supply: Rosewill RP550 550W Power Supply - $60
Case:any of these will do fine... just pick the one that you like the way it looks the most... - i'll say $60

i left you about $80 to get Windows XP...
the PC features a dual-core socket AM2 processor, DDR2 2GB ram, a 512MB video card... u have it all!

Edit: oh, i see you have a budget change... then just get the X2 4400+

 

[mgoldb2]

I don't know for that particular ram and board, but unless there is some weird incompatibility issue between them the memory should run at the DDR2-800 speed.

Depends on what the mutiplier is of your CPU. This from anandtech explains it pretty well.

The Odd Multiplier Issue

Another item that was working against the Athlon 64 X2 5000+ on the previous page was the fact that it used an odd clock multiplier, in this case 13.0, in order to achieve its 2.6GHz clock speed. The problem with odd clock multipliers on AM2 CPUs is that the memory controller actually runs at DDR2-742 instead of DDR2-800. AM2 CPUs with even clock multipliers can run at DDR2-800 without any problems, and the reason why is pretty simple.

Below is the equation for calculating the memory speed of any Athlon 64 processor:

Reference Clock * Clock Multiplier = CPU Frequency

CPU Frequency / Memory Divisor = Memory Frequency

AMD only supports integer memory divisors, but let's start out by looking at how an AM2 CPU with an even clock multiplier fits the equation. For example, an Athlon 64 X2 4800+ runs at 2.4GHz and supports DDR2-800.

200MHz Reference Clock * 12x Clock Multiplier = 2400MHz CPU Frequency

2400MHz CPU Frequency / 6 = 400MHz DDR2-800 Memory Frequency

No problems, right? Now let's see how an odd clock multiplier changes things:

200MHz Reference Clock * 13x Clock Muliplier = 2600MHz CPU Frequency

2600MHz CPU Frequency / 6 = 433MHz DDR2-866 Memory Frequency

2600MHz CPU Frequency / 7 = 371MHz DDR2-742 Memory Frequency

See a problem? Because we can only use integer memory dividers, the only options for memory speed on a CPU with an odd clock multiplier are DDR2-866 or DDR2-742. Since AMD can't run above DDR2-800 spec, the only option is to underclock the memory to DDR2-742. This wasn't a problem on Socket-939 CPUs because DDR-400 ran at a 200MHz frequency, which you could always obtain by dividing the CPU clock frequency by an integer (since AMD never supported half multipliers). In fact, you simply used the same integer as the CPU multiplier. With DDR2-800, you need a 400MHz clock frequency, which you can only generate if you have an even CPU clock multiplier.

The problem gets even more complicated when you take into account the fact that Semprons and single-core Athlon 64s only support DDR2-667, which also has a similar issue.

While we haven't seen any significant downside to only running at DDR2-742 vs. DDR2-800, it is something to keep in mind when deciding what CPU to purchase. If you want your memory controller running at DDR2-800, you may want to stay away from the odd clock multiplier CPUs (X2 5000+, 4400+ and 4200+).

 

[Praetor]

About that odd multiplier, that doesnt apply to you verbatim is you INTEND to drop the multiplier (or you use a 0.5 multiplier)


Here's something to consider

• AMD Athlon64 X2 4200+ ($357.00)
• Western Digital 500GB [7200rpm, SATA3.0, 16MB] ($239.99)
• MSI K9N Platinum [NF570] ($114.99)
• eVGA 256-P2-N564 7900GT KO ($259.99 after $15.00 MIR)
• NEC 3550A DVDRW ($35.99)
• Corsair XMS2 2x1024MB [CL4, EPP] ($270.00)
• Antec Sonata II +450W [12V@32A] ($94.99)
• Chaintech AV-710 [ENVY24] ($23.00)
• SUBTOTAL: $1395.95