Norton Ghost and my Hard drive

[mikepoke]

To start, Happy Halloween, I am new and am hoping some one can help me out with my dilema. This may be a bit off topic for this subject but hopefully someone has an answer for me.

I have been working on setting up a structure so that I can back up my hard drive to 2nd hard drive, and in case of primary hard drive failure I can restore to the 2nd hard drive and be on my way. So, I found the structure I want to use but I still dont know enough for it to work properly. Hopefully somebody can help.

Let me describe what I have and did. My c:\ drive is 40gb, and under the 'computer management' utility it shows two partitions. A small FAT partition (31 mb) and the larger NTFS partition (39 gb). The 2nd drive is WD 120gb and I split it into 2 NTFS partitions. The partitions are the d: drive, at 80gb, and the e:\ drive at 40gb.

I used norton ghost 9.0 to backup and save an image of my c: drive (but just the large NTFS partition, and NOT the FAT) to the e: drive. Next I want to make sure my emergency plan would work. Once the image is all done, I disconnected my c: drive, and made the larger 2nd drive the primary drive, making sure all jumpers are set properly.

I installed a version of XP on the d: drive(now the new c:\ drive) so that I can boot the machine up if I disconnect the original c:. That all works fine so far.

In the event of a hard drive failure on my original c:\ drive, I wanted to be able to disconnect the drive, and make the secondary the primary, and boot up to make sure everything is working fine. If I got past this point, I wanted to restore the c:\ image on the old e: (new d:\) to the old d:\ (new c:\ with XP). I assumed the restore function would overwrite everything on the new c: (which had a bootable version of XP) but I didnt think that would matter because I could boot up when the image is restored.

Well I tested this and did the drive restore using the norton ghost recovery cd, and when I tried to boot, it gave me an error. The file 'hal.dll' in system32 directory is missing or corrupted. Not the case, as I copied a clean version of this file and it still does not work.

What did I do wrong? Does anyone know how to make this idea work? Thanks

Mike

 

[Blue]

What did I do wrong? Does anyone know how to make this idea work? Thanks

You over complicated somthing ..

Have you thought about RAID?

 

[mikepoke]

Oh, I dont doubt I overcomplicated it. My forte.

Not sure if I know enough about RAID. Doesnt it function more like a mirror? If so, what happens if you get a virus, do both hard drives have a virus?

And anyway, already purchased the WB120 GB hard drive, and Norton Ghost. I am sure there has got to be a way to make this work. I think I am missing something regarding the FAT, and NTSF partitions on the primary drive.

Any help on this structure would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Praetor]

The partitions are the d: drive, at 80gb, and the e:\ drive at 40gb.

Check again because 120GB drives are only 115GB

I used norton ghost 9.0 to backup and save an image of my c: drive (but just the large NTFS partition, and NOT the FAT) to the e: drive.

And what drive letter is associated with the FAT partition?

I installed a version of XP on the d: drive(now the new c:\ drive)

And what are the other drive addresses now?

If I got past this point, I wanted to restore the c:\ image on the old e: (new d:\) to the old d:\ (new c:\ with XP).

Why would you restore to D:?

In the event of a hard drive failure on my original c:\ drive, I wanted to be able to disconnect the drive, and make the secondary the primary, and boot up to make sure everything is working fine. If I got past this point, I wanted to restore the c:\ image on the old e: (new d:\) to the old d:\ (new c:\ with XP). I assumed the restore function would overwrite everything on the new c: (which had a bootable version of XP) but I didnt think that would matter because I could boot up when the image is restored.

You have a very convoluted method of conveying yourself (and thus makes it hard to help you)

Oh, I dont doubt I overcomplicated it. My forte.

Judging simply from your description, you did

This is what you've written:
STABLE
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)

RECOVERY (Temp)
[/i]NTFS[0:0] - C (80GB)
NTFS [0:1] - D (40GB)
<perform GhostRestore from [0:1] --> [0:0]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
NTFS[0:1] - C (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - D (40GB)
FAT [1:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (39GB)

Now this is what you should have done:
STABLE
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)

RECOVERY (Temp)
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)
<perform GhostRestore from [1:1] --> [0:1]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)

Since you boot off CD to perform the ghost operation then you dont need to do any drive swapping.


Now a more effective solution would be to use RAID(1,3,4,5,6,10,50 etc). This would be the scenario for say, RAID1 (the simplest):
STABLE
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)

RECOVERY (you dont see this)
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)
<RAID controller automatically, on the fly, restores [1:0] --> [0:0]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)

 

[mikepoke]

Praetor, thanks for your time.

Check again because 120GB drives are only 115GB

Its actually like 111gb, but for simplicity I said 120 gb

And what drive letter is associated with the FAT partition?

Thats where I get confused, there is no drive letter associated. Under the ghost utility it says something about 'Dell Utility drive', and it only has about 30 mb of data on it. Not on the computer now, and I dont recall exactly what files are in it. As I said originally I am a bit of a newbie, so all this partition stuff is still new to me.

I tried to recreate the same structure on the new WD 120gb drive, but I could not create a FAT partition of only 31mb, and it always seemed to want to assign a drive letter. I assume my current structure requires the FAT partition to boot up, but I dont know for sure. All very confusing to me.

You have a very convoluted method of conveying yourself (and thus makes it hard to help you)

Sorry, let me try to explain using your notation.

The following is correct as the starting point.

FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)

The following I have no doubt functions as intended, but truthfully have not tested it. I would use this solution in the case of maybe virus infection.

RECOVERY (Temp)
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)
<perform GhostRestore from [1:1] --> [0:1]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:1] - C (39GB)
NTFS [1:0] - D (80GB)
NTFS [1:1] - E (40GB)

The following desribes what I am trying to accomplish. In the event of primary hard drive failure, rendering it completely useless.

RECOVERY (Temp)
[/i]NTFS[0:0] - C (80GB)
NTFS [0:1] - D (40GB)
<perform GhostRestore from [0:1] --> [0:0]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
NTFS[0:0] - C (80GB)
NTFS [0:1] - D (40GB)

Then I would go out and buy another Hard drive and set up the original structure (but probably by then something else will make more sense).

Now a more effective solution would be to use RAID(1,3,4,5,6,10,50 etc). This would be the scenario for say, RAID1 (the simplest):
STABLE
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)

RECOVERY (you dont see this)
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)
<RAID controller automatically, on the fly, restores [1:0] --> [0:0]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
NTFS [0:0] (39GB and various logical parititions)
NTFS [1:0] (39GB from the 115GB drive)

Like I said, I dont know enough (i.e. anything) about RAID to make this work. Is it a mirror? Will both hard drives get infected in case of virus. Can it be a weekly backup/mirror?

Again, thanks for your time and help.

Mike

 

[Praetor]

Then I would go out and buy another Hard drive and set up the original structure (but probably by then something else will make more sense).

It would make more sense to restore the ghost image to the new drive rather than do twice the work (for nothing).

Is it a mirror? Will both hard drives get infected in case of virus. Can it be a weekly backup/mirror?

Its a realt-time mirror. Meaning you write a file here, it appears there. As for virii -- dont get them and you wont have to worry.


Realistically your best route might just be to make ghost images on CDs/DVDs and then you can restore them wherever you like

 

[mikepoke]

Thanks again.

It would make more sense to restore the ghost image to the new drive rather than do twice the work (for nothing).

Sounds reasonable. But I first want to make sure the emergency plan works, so for the time being I am restoring to the same drive. And right now the problem is the restore wont boot

As for the RAID, not sure if that is right for me at this time. But thanks for the idea.

Realistically your best route might just be to make ghost images on CDs/DVDs and then you can restore them wherever you like

Initially, that is what I was doing. Now the overcomplication sets in. I thought in case of hard drive failure, I dont want to reinstall all my software. So I said let me take an image of my entire hard drive. Realizing that would span too many CDs, I thought I would buy another hard drive. So far so good. I then want to test my plan, so I simulate the hard drive failure (i.e. take out the original 40gb drive, and make the 120gb drive the only and primary drive). The problem is my restore wont boot up. So my guess is regardless of whether I back up to CDs/DVDs or a hard drive, my restore doesnt boot. And I think the reason has something to do with the way Dell partitioned my original hard drive.

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Mike

 

[Praetor]

So I said let me take an image of my entire hard drive. Realizing that would span too many CDs

Shouldnt be a problem ... my C partition is 10GB and with 7GB used by software (which is a crapload) ... after compression its close to 5GB ... so thats not too bad even for CDs

The problem is my restore wont boot up. So my guess is regardless of whether I back up to CDs/DVDs or a hard drive, my restore doesnt boot

Assuming it has nothing to do with Dell then my suspicion is that you "simply just cant" do what you're doing as it in effect changes too much as far as the core OS is concerned (much like the way people have to reinstall an OS when they change major compontnets). To confirm this: the configuration you are backing up... is that YOUR installation of Windows or is it Dell's installation?

And I think the reason has something to do with the way Dell partitioned my original hard drive.

Possibly .... try and ascertain what that 31MB chunk is for

 

[Blue]

Judging simply from your description, you did

Thank you ..

As for the RAID, not sure if that is right for me at this time. But thanks for the idea.

Honestly I think it is .. but then again who am I? . Just think about and read a little about it.. It's so darn simple and it works and it's does just what your looking for.

Anyhow I'm obviously not helping so I'll shut up now. LOL.

Good luck

 

[mikepoke]

Got it!!

The solution is as follows:

RECOVERY (Temp)
[/i]Unallocated [0:0] - C (40GB)
NTFS [0:1] - D (80GB)
<perform GhostRestore from [0:1] --> [0:0]>

RECOVERY (Complete)
FAT [0:unknown] - Unknown (31MB)
NTFS [0:0] - C (39GB)
NTFS [0:1] - D (80GB)

The key is to keep the destination drive, unallocated, and unpartitioned. Obviously makes the most sense as this is how new drives come.

The small FAT partition houses the Dell Utility files, needed for boot, and is on most Dell computers. They recommend you do not remove, but doesnt matter to me now that it works.

Now that I have got that done, I can move on. And while I have been looking for answers on the above on this site, i came across some interesting stuff regarding upgrades. Hope someone is willing to help me out with upgrades on my computer.

My computer is about 3yrs old, and is your basic off the shelf Dell. This is what I know:
1. Intel P4 1.7 mhtz
2. Nvidia Geforce2 MX - 64mg (I think)
3. 256 mg RAM
4. Know nothing about MOBO
5. BIOS too basic, and will not let me OC
6. Soundblaster 5.1 Card

A. If I want to increase the 256 mgs, must it match? Do I have to add 256mg for a total of 512, or can I add 512 for a total of 768?
B. How do I find out more about my MOBO, so I can determine whether there is a faster CPU I can drop in?
C. Would it be a problem to add a 10,000 rpm hard drive to this computer?


Thanks for any help.

Mike

 

[Praetor]

The key is to keep the destination drive, unallocated, and unpartitioned. Obviously makes the most sense as this is how new drives come

You shouldnt have to do this. I Ghost all the time (all-the-time = once a day, once every 2 days at the most)

The small FAT partition houses the Dell Utility files, needed for boot, and is on most Dell computers. They recommend you do not remove, but doesnt matter to me now that it works.

There SHOULDNT be a "need" for such utility files .... unless you're running the Dell-installed OS rather than your own (even then.......)

Hope someone is willing to help me out with upgrades on my computer.

If you dont mind, please make a different post, perhaps here: http://www.computerforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2 and also have a look at http://www.computerforum.com/announcement.php?f=2 beforehand (helps to keep things neat and orderly)

 

[mikepoke]

OK

 

[ydroisier]

Hello,

You problem is due to the dell utility partition

When you have Ghost your system, the boot.ini file has been also copied.

If you edit this file, using the Symantec Recovery disk, you will see that you're are trying to boot on partion 2

Old Disk :
partition 1 : DELL utility
partition 2 : System

New Disk :
partition 1 : system

If you change the partition value, it will boot BUT ....

In my case, I can only boot on disk 2 (2 SATA drives on my DELL)
If I switch off disk 1 in the BIOS or disconnect drive 1 and set my new disk as primary Windows doesn't launch.

It seems to work properly but I get stuck on the Windows welcome screen (were normally you can choose the account tou want to log with)
I've got a blue screen with the Windows logo but no more...

I'am going to phone to the symantec support but I don't really have hope.
I will post their answer.

If after modifying the boot.ini file it works for you, please let me know !!!

Yann