Server setup for 5-10 PCs

[Tom0822]

Hello All,

Was just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction in setting up a home office of 5-10 PC's with a server.

Here's what I would like:
All 5-10 PC's to be able to share files and programs like Quickbook (any changes made in quickbook should be seen by all PC's connecting).
All PC's to share same printer
All PC's to access internet.

I've never setup a server before, but I do have some background in computers.

I was thinking of a peer to peer setup, but correct me if I'm wrong, a peer to peer setup can't see "live" updates in Quickbook.

Can this be done with using XP as the server or would I need Server 2003?
I'm assuming setting up a domain would be best?

Is it a fairly easy process to set this up?

TIA

 

[blondie]

Hi,

You don't need to buy a server if you don't want to. Nor do I see a need to buy a server operating system. You can happly use something like windows XP on a regular PC.

Again you dont need a domain. The point of a domain controller is to provide centralised authentication/access control. If you want users to sign in, it preforms this function. If your aren't concerned with controlling access to login or files, they its simpler to live without.

On the PC enable the guest account, add a printer on USB (use network printers if thats what you want to do) and under right click you can share the printer. On the shared folder (see my computer) just right click and share. Its that easy. To see the shared folders and printers appear on the network make sure all the computers have the same workgroup, and you've no firewalls installed other than windows firewall. Windows can auto configure the windows firewall but others may need doing manually. I'd turn firewalls all firewalls off if you can. Especially if your having problems.

For shared Internet Access just use any broadband router, must be router not broadband modem. You can use a modem but it requires a small amout of work.

If you need further help, just ask.

Regards,

Dan
Internet Generation

 

[Tom0822]

Hi blondie,

Thanks for your reply.
Actually, purchasing a server won't be necessary. I was just thinking about installing Small Business Server 03 on a PC.

As for setting up workgroup, does that allow others on the network to see "live" updates?
For example if something were to be done in Quickbook, can someone else at another PC see those updates?
That's my main concern.

 

[blondie]

I've installed quickbooks in a shared network enviroment,

The short answer is yes. Read the documentation carefull on installing quickbooks, refer to manufacture website if needed.

If I remember correctly, don't install the quickbooks server component. I think the simplest way was to just create a shared folder on the server, and save all your quickbooks accounts in there. Install the program normally on the computer. Just save the documents (peoples accounts in your case) in the shared space. That was the way I set it up. Only one person can work on a set of accounts at any one time but thats unlikely to be a problem. I guess your an accountancy company or something.

I don't remember if its was a easy as that but thats the basic principal, install normally but documents are saved in a shared folder, i didn't install all that quickbooks server stuff.

Regards,

Dan
Internet Generation

 

[tlarkin]

Just an FYI, on non Server OSes from Microsoft, you get a maximum of 15 connections via SMB, if you want to expand ever more than 15 devices (like you add laptops to your environment) then you would want to get a server. Small Business Server would probably do you just right.

Are you going to host email services as well? It all really depends on what you want to do with the technology you have. The real art in designing networks is not spouting out specs, or knowing how to build a computer, it really comes down to knowing how to balance everything in your environment so it all works simultaneously with out a hitch.

Also, if you are file sharing better get a good back up solution in works too.

 

[Tom0822]

blondie:
I think I see what you mean. If I'm understanding it correctly, you're saying install Quickbooks on all the PC's. Then create a folder on one PC and share that folder with all the other PC's on the network.
Any changes made on any PC is to be saved within that shared folder.
So all changes made can be seen by every computer on the network by going to that shared folder.
Correct?
What my concern would be is what if someone on the network saves it, but accidentally saves it on their local computer forgetting to save it in the shared folder.

tlarkin:
hosting email service and adding more PC's may be an option in the future, but at this moment, the answer would be no.

 

[tlarkin]

What about workgroup management and policies, and mass imaging and deployment?

A server would be ideal I think from a business perspective, that way you would have more control over what goes on and it leaves you open to expand.

 

[blondie]

Hi,

There is nothing to stop them doing that, a little instruction should help. I find it worthwhile doing a quick 1 page instruction sheet as a handout, and keep on file for new starters.

Have a play doing it that way see how you feel, is it sufficent. Can you specify a default folder location, does the program always open looking in the same folder. Remeber if your opening an existing file, clicking save will autmatically save in the same location. Its only creating new sets of accounts its a problem.

Alternatively investigate the quickbooks server option, I've no experience with that. Just because its called a server, doesn't mean you can't still run it on XP, check documentation carefully.

It would be preferable to keep as simple as possible, less room for things to go wrong. Tlarkin is right though, backup, backup, backup. You can't backup an SQL database simply, so it would be nice to avoid that if we can.

Regards,

 

[tlarkin]

Well with out some sort of ACLs or what not you are going to run into permissions problems and if you leave them wide open then you have several users opening and modifying the same file at the same time, which is bad.

You can't depend on users to listen to your instructions either. I know my users don't read my emails, they just delete them.

 

[Zatharus]

For a multi-user/multi-pc business environment, a peer-to-peer setup is not the best option. It can be the cheaper route, but you will soon find all sorts of frustrations. Tlarkin has raised some excellent points regarding permissions, security and expansion issues. Even in a relatively small work environment, setting up a good server/network policy is highly beneficial.

The benefits of such include:
- Centralized storage/access/backup of important files.
- One master computer to manage setups on/with vs managing network shares spread across multiple workstations.
- Less convoluted and overall better network security.
- Ease of network expansion.
- Keeping machines dedicated to their specific tasks increases overal efficiency.


Setting up Quickbooks on the server is not too hard. You can have it set up (provided you purchase the proper version/licenses) so that more than one user can work on the file at a time as well. This is facilitated through the Quickbooks database server manager. You would be better off running this on a dedicated server instead of a workstation...though you can run it on a workstation if you want.


Edit:

...You can't depend on users to listen to your instructions either. I know my users don't read my emails, they just delete them.

You must have the same users I do...

 

[fmw]

It gets down to trust and security. I use peer to peer for my 6 node network but I don't need to hide anything from anybody - even though I could if I wanted to. I don't even require login on our network. Trust and security simply aren't issues here. If you need to change permissions for various users or keep files restricted, a domain server is a better approach. It also centralizes management. It keeps all the files in one place so that things like backup are easier to manage. I think others have said the about the same thing above.

 

[tlarkin]

I have supported small 5 to 10 computer networks with no server and they always get mad because someone leaves their excel file open on a desktop and locks it, while someone else tries to input a ton of data into it, then realizes they can't write, and if by chance they both write data at the same time, you get corruption.

Even if your management is minimal, you should at the very least put some sort of policy in place that prevents such things from happening.

 

[bilbus]

He will have a server, it will be the computer with quickbooks on it.

You can use windows xp, and you can use a desktop clas computer. Anything else is just a waste of money. You do not need SBS!

Just install QB on the central pc.

Install QB on the other computers, point their QB to that central pc. Thats it.

As for printer, best bet would be to get a printer that prints via IP, not usb. You can then add the printer to the network with no issues.

 

[tlarkin]

He will have a server, it will be the computer with quickbooks on it.

You can use windows xp, and you can use a desktop clas computer. Anything else is just a waste of money. You do not need SBS!

Just install QB on the central pc.

Install QB on the other computers, point their QB to that central pc. Thats it.

As for printer, best bet would be to get a printer that prints via IP, not usb. You can then add the printer to the network with no issues.

It depends on what they want to do. I agree that it may be a waste of money in some respects but in others it is better. I would never want to rely on a windows desktop as a server ever in a business. If the client insisted in using a desktop I would load Linux on it. After all, in that case it is just P2P networking. Then I would have a router run DHCP and secure the wireless or disable it if there is no wifi clients.

 

[Zatharus]

I agree with tlarkin on this. Don't use Windows' desktop OS as a stand alone server - or standard desktop hardware for that matter if up-time/reliability is important.

I second the networkable printer idea though. With this size of a network, there is no need to host off of a workstation or server if you get a proper business class printer.

 

[blondie]

Hi Zatharus,

I enjoyed your post. I agree with your points. But reading the users origional request, they didn't express these as objectives. I also did not feel the user capable of creating the enviroment as I invision your description. Whilst your right, I felt it was more complex that required to meet the set objective. Its a personal choice both have merrit.

Tlarkin, Yes i would do a linux server, but he'll be hard pressed finding a linux engineer. Got one customer on a linux server, fantastic, works year upon year, never have to do anything. SBS has lots of bugs and things just need fixing from time to time.

Best Regards,

 

[Zatharus]

No worries. I thought the original request was for insight into the best way to set up a small office network (be it a home office or not) with a server. From my experience, I find it much simpler to set up and maintain a dedicated server environment to meet the objectives outlined. I would still recommend using at least Windows Home Server over just XP or Vista to host even such a small work load as long as there is no intent to expand in the future (WHS has a 10 user limit). WHS is also extraordinarly simple to setup and maintain, and it's cheap.

The server equipment does not have to be on enterprise grade equipment. It can run just fine on a run of the mill PC. The important difference is that Windows Server (any variety) has capabilities well beyond that of the XP and Vista desktop environment.

As for Quickbooks, to enable simultaneous multiple user access you will need to run the database server component. It isn't hard to set up. You are correct that without it only one user can access the "shared" account at a time. If simultaneous access is not important, just sharing the account on one computer can work. I have run in both scenarios in the past. It eventually ended up being hosted with the database service for convenience.

I would also agree with Linux as a simple option. Give SME from contribs.org a try. It is free and very easy to setup simple file sharing and even an internet gateway (and it makes a decent email server if you want in the future). It also has a great support community.

Setting up a server to meet Tom0822's needs is not complicated. It will take some sweat to get a server going but even more with a peer-to-peer setup if you are doing more than two computers as in this case.

 

[dannaswolcott]

Do you want all the users to be able to log in with there user account on any one of the computers? also, do you want to set access restrictions at all for users?

 

[Tom0822]

Do you want all the users to be able to log in with there user account on any one of the computers? also, do you want to set access restrictions at all for users?

First off, thanks for all your replies.

I'd like them to login on any one of the computers.

 

[Zatharus]

First off, thanks for all your replies.

I'd like them to login on any one of the computers.

Would this be with one account for all or individual accounts?