Two Laptops (Mac or PC)

DMGrier

DMGrier

VIP Member
+1

I have used a friend's mac before and didn't find it that easy to use, not considering that with windows just about everything is in your start menu. Plus if you do any reading online you will find the windows 7 is extremely close in performance to OSX, My laptop multi task better then my friend's macbook but being I have a i5 I do have the faster computer (he paid the same price for his mac though). Even apple has there quality problem, if you don't believe me bing/google "macbook logic board failure". Some of the people who used apple before they went to building computer's hardware like the other companies have been complaining about loss of quality. All computers have there problems. I have no problem with apple other then there high prices and the users who are apart of there apple crazy cult. Most apple users I find will not admit to the pro's of windows based systems and the issue's with the OSX based computers. There is even a apple church these days where steve jobs has his own bible.

The i3 are better then the core 2 duo and the i5 and extremely better then the core 2 duo.
 
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mkeyfoo34

mkeyfoo34

New Member
Metalica 17
What a stupid statement to say Macs are no good, obviously you have never used one
to it's full intention
I have used every Mac since the old MacPlus
Best computer produced bar none !you couldn't do good graphics on a PC.
 
Cameldude

Cameldude

New Member
mkeyfoo34 said:
Metalica 17
Best computer produced bar none !you couldn't do good graphics on a PC.
Click to expand...

Metalica 17, lol, this is not a fact, this is an opinion, a normative statement that you believe to be true. Like some people who use macs believe what you said here, but it is just a thought, an opinion. trully if you have a good Windows based PC, you could outdo any high end macs with graphics.

farily, also funny, This is not true either - "The first myth is that Macs can’t do everything a PC can do. This just isn’t true, especially with the newest technology Mac has been using, such as the Intel Core Duo processor found in new iMacs and MacBooks.", firstly i would like to attack you on this statement on something you call newest technology, Intel core 2 duo was developed in 2006, not very new. i would have agreed with your opinion if you said something like, intel i5 processor, and the use of SSDs in macs. now that is newest technology available. Also you say macs can do everything that pc can. i tend to disagree on this note, and tend to say myself that Macs can do some things that Windows based pc's can't, and windows based pcs can do things that Macs can't. this would be a more factual statement.

Quote from you again, "the popular belief that PCs are less intuitive, prone to viruses, and more difficult to use and upgrade are all based in fact", hmm, perhaps agree here for now, but Macs can still get trojans, malware, spyware, at least pc users (or most of them) are protected against this with antiviruse programs, some mac users tend to be less protected since they think they can't get infected. well they can. (i am not saying that macs do not have added protection, they do and i know this) PC is a personal computer, not software, thats why i call "them" windows based pc's, if you are talking about intuitive OS, then Windows 7, will match the latest OS from Mac, no problems. i think now it is down to preferences as you rightly suggest.
What i am trying to point out, and with use of facts "...Mac, rip you off massively..., i mean look at my laptop below, i bought that for 1100 dollars, its got full HD screen, i5, 4 gb DDR3, nice sleek design, portable. Blu ray player. tell me how much a mac with all these would cost, 1500$, 2000$"
you are not a rational person if you don't think that Mac is a rip off, it a good rip off though, i think if apple removed their brand it would cost less than current windows based pc's.

On the note of PC (personal Computer) i know that people have called all windows based a PC and Macs are Macs. but in my view (this is an opinion, but i believe it is to be true) Personal computer is just a way of saying that the computer is for your use privately. those adverts that apple made PC v Mac, they just did not want to write Microsoft Windows.
I think i dragged on here. please do post more "Factual" comparisons. and if you are comparing laptops, macpro, please do compare on price, so if Mac costs 1500$ then compare a 1500 $ Windows based pc. and there you would really see the difference.

I do realise we are going off topic here yet again, sorry for that, main poster.

Good day sirs/ladies (if there are any ;))
 
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I

iGeekOFComedy

New Member
Woah, Find me a HD laptop with a IPS screen. Then come back. You know Macs today DO have i5 / i7 Processors but Apple decided either fast processor or better graphics in their 13" MacBook Pro line. SSDs are options on Macs up to 512GB SSD sans the Air It's not really a rip of because they have other fancy technologies in their computers like a internal IR Sensor, Magnetic Power Supply, SMS technology for clumsy people and the battery life is almost as Apple advertises. Sure it's not user replaceable but for people with laptops post a webcam photo of all your batteries, I'm sure only a Percentage of PC users have backup batteries

Also:

1100 dollars, its got full HD screen, i5, 4 gb DDR3, nice sleek design, portable. Blu ray player. tell me how much a mac with all these would cost, 1500$, 2000$"
Click to expand...

OK 13" MacBook Pro

1280x800 Screen 16.10 sometimes better than HD because people need vertical resolution for computing and this is IPS technology

Ok, Sure it's i5, This has a 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo
It's made out of a single piece of Aluminium, 0.95" Thick, Superdrive SLOT Load, Sure it's not blueray but if you live in downloading digitally iTunes has a HD Movie store. Also could you link us to said laptop :)

Yes your laptop has better performance to be sitted at a desk, Now on the go you will run into all sorts of problems with batteries, You would probably get 3 Hours if your lucky on that computer.

@ mkeyfoo3 you can do good graphics on PC with aftereffects and photoshop now if your talking about final cut then yes, But PCs do have better GPUS sans intergrated graphics.

This may not apply to every user but @ OP look at the threads in the laptop section and count how many threads include: Wheres the driver, Overheating, etc.
 
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DMGrier

DMGrier

VIP Member
I actually was walking around best buy yesterday and there was a 2000$ macbook pro and the only difference between my computer and the mac was it had a better graphics card. I only paid 999$. I do think apple computers are nice but you are paying for the name. I'm not saying the mac dont have a few nice features but nothing worth there price. And I cant think of anything a mac can do that a pc can't. They both have basic video/photo editing software. And they both can run photo shop and pro tools for music production. Honestly the difference is a preference in OS. Yes you do see more problems with PC on this forum cause there are more PC users on this forum. Go to a apple forum and you will see them have as many issue. I became a member on a apple forum when I considered getting a apple computer and every person who responded to my post said that there pc's that they paid the same amount for as there mac where as just as good in quality and last just as long. It is preference, and a question of a persons budget for what they want out of a computer. People who do like PC where the ones who bought a 400$ Toshiba during the years of vista and wonder why it had problems.
 
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C

cciotify

New Member
I started uni with a white MacBook and personally, I'm so glad I did. There really aren't any compatibility issues, iWork is an easy suite to use (except maybe exporting documents, but one you get the hang of it, it's easy), and if you're not too into gaming, MacBook Pro should have all the things you need.

If you're into recording videos and/or music, the GarageBand application on the Macbook (which comes as standard, for which there is no PC equivalent) is pretty awesome. Also, I find that the battery life of a MacBook Pro is superior (having used both Asus and MacBook Pro).

Definitely recommend a MacBook!
 
Cameldude

Cameldude

New Member
OK here we go iGeekOFComedy
IPS technology, i know what it is, but on my laptop i really have no probelms with viewing angles. be that vertical or horizontal. i can see the screen in its upmost.
Next i think you misunderstood me, i was telling farily that if he mentioned the i5 and the SSD, then his argument would be more productive. Saying that at the time of my posting i was trying to make his argument better, knowing that Macs do come with i5, and the SSD's. i think there is no argument there.
I will skip your very nice comparison and will talk about it at the end.

"This may not apply to every user but @ OP look at the threads in the laptop section and count how many threads include: Wheres the driver, Overheating, etc. "
Hmm, with windwos 7, the driver problem is gone, ok not for all devices, but for 99.99%., windows update will find the drivers and install them for you. overheating, just for those who try to push their computers too far from their actual performace.

Now i bought my computer in Russia, but here is a translation from the Sony.ru website using google translate, http://translate.google.com/transla...//www.sony.ru/product/vn-e-series/vpceb1z1r-b

Lets get to the topic of comparison:
Fancy staff: internal IR Sensor, haha, ok maybe HP has this thing
Magnetic Power Supply, wow, really neccesary
SMS technology - all latest laptops will have such technologies.
battery life - now here is a topic on discussion. i would be insane to argue that my laptop has better or similar battery life. i accept defeat on this one, but if you really want to compare, as you so magically said, my computer sits on a desk, if you look at other laptops, windows based, some of them have similar or even greater battery life for less, money, especially for those traveling type. now i would say when you are watching HD material on a Mac timewise the battery would go down, i do not have any facts on how long it will last, but i would guess the battery life would go down at least to 3 hours.
Superdrive SLOT Load - so what?
single piece of Aluminium, 0.95" Thick, ok very nice there.
Sure it's not blu ray but if you live in downloading digitally iTunes has a HD Movie store - i laughed at this.
ok, i did not know about HD itunes, i have not seen it in UK, or Russia, i know i can download HD TV shows at 720p, but did not know about movies.

ok i hope you agree on this - Macs can do some things that Windows based pc's can't, and windows based pcs can do things that Macs can't. I am just saying that Windows based pc's are better in some areas, and Macs are better in some other areas. Battery life, yes, the rest i am not so sure. that IPS technology, hmm, as i said i see my screen at angles, no problems at all. and i really do not need more battery life than what i have now. i think normal macs would have something like 3-4 hours hard use, while mine has around 2-3.5 hours hard use. ok aa bit of difference, but mac could watch a film, and i could watch a film. i could watch a blu ray, mac can watch an HD film. this is all on battery.
13" laptops which are windows based, also have long battery life
i shall say i would end argument here, but i know that it will not. Some people prefer Macs, some people prefer Windows based PCs, neither me nor you have the right to say which is better. i will acept defeat, since i am in a suit and you are in a t-shirt (link to the PC v Mac advert) trying to make joke man, a joke. D
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
PabloTeK said:
>_>

tlarkin, your thread is here!
Click to expand...

I've been lurking, no time to argue with people who won't use and/or acknowledge facts. However, if you ever work retail or a job that involves some sort of sales you are trained to take yourself out of the picture and quality your customer for their needs.

People tend to get too personal. A Mac is a tool. A PC is a tool. Different tools for different jobs, different preference on what tools you want to use. Those of you that say Mac is non intuitive, how long have you used one?

I can list the plethora of reasons why I really dislike Windows, all of my reasons are very valid, but to the end user they mean nothing. Do you think end users know what a self contained application even is? Or the registry for that matter? How about Kernel Hooks? Or direct kernel access via driver APIs, which is a still current and HUGE security risk. Or the fact I started some sentences in this paragraph with a conjunction, which is not grammatically correct?

No, end users give two craps about it. I have been using Macs since about 1999 and was forced to use them. I was forced as part of my job and I hated them. However, after using them for 11 years now I can honestly say I prefer them. For many valid and technical reasons. Ones which I will not go into because I am just tired of the debate, especially with people who have no knowledge of what they are talking about.

I wrote this a long time ago, and is out dated, but it is a starting point

http://www.computerforum.com/120762-macintosh-platform.html

I eventually (time permitting) will do an official write up for this site I just have not had time to make a new one. My opinion is that Apple makes the best laptops you can buy, period. My opinion is biased, and it is biased as a long time power user, System's Administrator, and amateur software developer. Some people hate Macs, and their reasons are as simple as, "I just don't like them." Other people play the elitist role. I have a Windows box at home for 2 reasons. 1) games 2) to stay current. Otherwise, I, after using computers for nearly 20 years, am starting to loathe Windows compared to every other OS in the universe I have tested and tried. With the exception of Microsoft's back end. Their server side stuff is, well, it is pretty damn good actually.
 
Cameldude

Cameldude

New Member
"I can list the plethora of reasons why I really dislike Windows, all of my reasons are very valid, but to the end user they mean nothing. Do you think end users know what a self contained application even is? Or the registry for that matter? How about Kernel Hooks? Or direct kernel access via driver APIs, which is a still current and HUGE security risk."

i hope you are not saying that Macs are safer, because they are not, only recently Apple issued an update (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/358837/apple-slammed-for-stealth-security-update), meaning that macs are not as safe as people perseive them to be, i suppose that Kernel is perhaps indeed a security risk.
I think the argument in this thread is by end users, so some of us do give a crap.
I would really love to see your reasons why you hate windows, lets not talk about any other version other than Windows 7.
OK and my main opinion, which i try to stick with is, DO not compare Microsoft (windows) and Macs, you just can;t compare them, it is impossible. there is nothing that you can say that would make your argument in comparing Apple and Microsoft legit. Microsoft Software maker, apple computer manufacturer, ok they do have OS, then compare OS to OS only nothing else, no computer specs and any fancy staff that comes with it. on the basic things, i am talking from as much as i know, having spent more time using Windows, you can;t say that Windows 7, is worse than Mac OS, at least it is on the same level.
you cannot say Mac's aren/t a rip off, if you strip them down there is nothing there that stands out massively, yes it has toys, wow, amazing...
I understand you have experience, i respect that. and i can't wait for you argunment, because while you concentrate on Windows disadvantages somewhere out there there will be someone who will concentrate on Macs disadvantages, in the end as i said and you said, it is down to preferences , said by you "Different tools for different jobs, different preference on what tools you want to use"
Said by me "Some people prefer Macs, some people prefer Windows based PCs, neither me nor you have the right to say which is better"
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
Cameldude said:
"I can list the plethora of reasons why I really dislike Windows, all of my reasons are very valid, but to the end user they mean nothing. Do you think end users know what a self contained application even is? Or the registry for that matter? How about Kernel Hooks? Or direct kernel access via driver APIs, which is a still current and HUGE security risk."

i hope you are not saying that Macs are safer, because they are not, only recently Apple issued an update (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/security/358837/apple-slammed-for-stealth-security-update), meaning that macs are not as safe as people perseive them to be, i suppose that Kernel is perhaps indeed a security risk.
I think the argument in this thread is by end users, so some of us do give a crap.
I would really love to see your reasons why you hate windows, lets not talk about any other version other than Windows 7.
OK and my main opinion, which i try to stick with is, DO not compare Microsoft (windows) and Macs, you just can;t compare them, it is impossible. there is nothing that you can say that would make your argument in comparing Apple and Microsoft legit. Microsoft Software maker, apple computer manufacturer, ok they do have OS, then compare OS to OS only nothing else, no computer specs and any fancy staff that comes with it. on the basic things, i am talking from as much as i know, having spent more time using Windows, you can;t say that Windows 7, is worse than Mac OS, at least it is on the same level.
you cannot say Mac's aren/t a rip off, if you strip them down there is nothing there that stands out massively, yes it has toys, wow, amazing...
I understand you have experience, i respect that. and i can't wait for you argunment, because while you concentrate on Windows disadvantages somewhere out there there will be someone who will concentrate on Macs disadvantages, in the end as i said and you said, it is down to preferences , said by you "Different tools for different jobs, different preference on what tools you want to use"
Said by me "Some people prefer Macs, some people prefer Windows based PCs, neither me nor you have the right to say which is better"
Click to expand...

Notice how I said Microsoft and not PC when stating what I did. You know why? Well, of course you don't know you cannot read my mind so I shall inform you. It is because of several reasons, but mainly because Linux as has 2% market share of PCs sold, and Unix has less. Sun, well, Sun might as well be compared to Mac since they also sell closed platform systems, write their own OS and design their own hardware. Though Solaris is now available open source for a few years now. So really when you are comparing a Mac to a PC you are comparing the two most commonly purchased consumer computers. Second reason is every PC I own (3 of them) with exception of 1, runs Linux over Windows.

I agree, you cannot really compare Apples to Oranges, but in a discussion like this you are going to have to. Apple now owns like 24% of consumer market share in the USA. That is strictly consumer, not world market share which Apple is roughly 8% at world market share.

Normally, when someone asks why should I get a PC over a Mac, or why should I get a Lexus over an Acura? You basically make a list of pros and cons and compare them, even though the engineering is much different. Then you make your decision.

The quick reasons why I really dislike Windows, and most of this has been happening since the 9x Kernel...

1) Registry - why on earth would you build an OS with a single point of failure? It is clunky, it is hard to read, it is damn right annoying. give me config files any day over a registry.

2) All users run as root (this actually changed with Vista/7 - but not totally) which means escalated code doesn't need authentication to high jack your system. Hence, why Windows has script kiddies as hackers, and every other OS doesn't (for the most part generalization to some extent).

3) Lack of self contained apps, see #1. If I have an app crash I don't want it crashing the registry thus crashing the whole damn system.

4) Lack of POSIX or any other standards. Though this is part of the security which goes into how I think an OS should be. Owner : group : everyone, and while MS has shifted more towards a Unix-like POSIX system over their last two releases, they are not quite there yet.

5) Security Access Control, I want to punch Windows in the face when this annoying message pops up.

6) Security - Windows boxes will NEVER be secure EVER as long as they allow things like drivers direct access to the kernel and applications kernel hooks. Giant security firms have caught onto this and Symantec for example makes billions of dollars a year making an insecure product slightly more secure. You are being played, and trust me, every giant corporation plays nice with each other. There are kick backs and money being exchanged. Symantec knows that MS cannot fix these known security holes or it may hurt their biz, so they lobby MS to keep them. If go back and read about when MS was going to drop kernel access from everything outside the shell and ask for authentication there were several giant software companies that said if MS does that they will drop support.

7) Total resource hog. Every other OS performs better on less hardware, this is most likely due to many things but the bulk of it is legacy support. Stop supporting software from the 90s, force your customers to upgrade, drop the old legacy code, stream line your OS and make it faster and more efficient.

I could go on and on but I don't have the time.
 
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DMGrier

DMGrier

VIP Member
tlarkin,
You have many good point's but one, I must ask have you used 7? You made the statement that it is a system hog, It is actually runs very efficient. Many friends of mine have macbook's and from what I have seen when it comes to boot up and multi tasking I have seen no difference between the two.

everyone,
Apple is more secure then windows cause it is based on a UNIX os, but I have seen mac get viruses still. If we want to argue security and light weight then we better start arguing Linux. And with ubuntu, Linux couldn't get any easier or user friendly. plus it has a ton of software support these days and they have made them easy to find.
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
DMGrier said:
tlarkin,
You have many good point's but one, I must ask have you used 7? You made the statement that it is a system hog, It is actually runs very efficient. Many friends of mine have macbook's and from what I have seen when it comes to boot up and multi tasking I have seen no difference between the two.
Click to expand...

Yes I have windows 7. Yes it is a vast improvement on resources over Vista. However, you compare it to any other modern OS and the other OS will do the same with less. Linux + Compiz and Beryl will run faster on lesser hardware than a Windows 7 box will. I am not saying you are better off throwing your computer in a lake than use Windows, I am saying that compared to every other OS out there, it is a resource hog. Why can't MS make it better?

everyone,
Apple is more secure then windows cause it is based on a UNIX os, but I have seen mac get viruses still. If we want to argue security and light weight then we better start arguing Linux. And with ubuntu, Linux couldn't get any easier or user friendly. plus it has a ton of software support these days and they have made them easy to find.
Click to expand...

There are zero OS X viruses in the wild. There are a few social engineering attacks where malicious software acts as legit software and end up being Trojan Horses, however every OS is subjected to that. You cannot build an OS that will stop an end user from installing something stupid on their computer.
 
diduknowthat

diduknowthat

formerly liuliuboy
What college are you going to? I know at my college the majority of students uses Macs. They're VERY nice machines. If it wasn't for all the engineering programs I'd have to run (which you can run on a mac with boocamp), I would have gotten one too.
 
DMGrier

DMGrier

VIP Member
How can you say there no viruses out there for mac's? From what I have seen one of my friend get on his mac it seemed to be a virus to me considering he did not run any 3rd party software that might have messed up his os. I am just curious what proof you have.
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
DMGrier said:
How can you say there no viruses out there for mac's? From what I have seen one of my friend get on his mac it seemed to be a virus to me considering he did not run any 3rd party software that might have messed up his os. I am just curious what proof you have.
Click to expand...

The burden of proof is upon the person making the claim. Find me a documented in the wild virus for OS X. Viruses self propagate from system to system. The only known malicious software for Macs are root kits and Trojan Horses, which are installed by either 1) downloaded pirated software with Trojan pre-installed or 2) social engineered to fool the user into installing it.

There were a couple of webkit and java exploits but java affects all systems since it runs on every OS and webkit only affected Safari which was patched, but details were never released on the exact info of said exploit.

Again, please show me an in wild virus for OS X, and I will gladly change my mind if you have solid proof.
 
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