PC vs xbox

mihir

VIP Member
Should I mention the fact that I just bought a new xbox 360 with 250 GB for $299.99, for the price no desktop can touch those graphics.

But a any desktop or even a cheap phone can edit a text document so you really cannot replace a desktop.
But instead add $300 to your regular Desktop budget and it can game.
So do not compare in those terms.
So only in terms of gaming experience and forgetting all other things,I enjoy gaming on my PC way more than an XBOX.
 

wellhellothere

New Member
I honestly can't play on consoles anymore - the graphics are appauling on every game.

The only reason I play on my ps3 is to play with mates. Other than that, the entire experience is MUCH better on my PC, and always will be
 

Aastii

VIP Member
Should I mention the fact that I just bought a new xbox 360 with 250 GB for $299.99, for the price no desktop can touch those graphics.

You are right, but for that price, no Xbox can be as durable as a PC.

Most people use a PC on a daily basis, or at least a few times a week, so the vast majority of people with consoles have a PC right there anyway. Go and spend an extra ~$150, and you have yourself the same PC that could do everything before, but now also game with higher quality graphics than your console.

So, ~$400 for a PC + $300 for an xbox = $700 total

Or, ~$400 for a PC + $150 to upgrade = $550 total

Yes, you can touch and greatly exceed the graphics an Xbox has with those prices :)
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Should I mention the fact that I just bought a new xbox 360 with 250 GB for $299.99, for the price no desktop can touch those graphics.

The XBOX has very outdated RV600 based ATi graphics. Rubbish. Their CPUs are based on 3 core low powered 65nm architechture which is about a mid range core 2 duo at best. Ram is based on 512mb DDR3

HD2400 - $25 on ebay
E7500 - ~$100 on ebay
Ram - $20 on ebay (for 2GB rather than 512mb)
Motherboard - $55 on ebay
Hard drive - 250GB $35 on ebay
Network card - $14 on ebay
Case and peripherals - $50 on ebay easy.

So actually you can get equivalent/better hardware for a desktop computer for about the same price. Plus you can upgrade at anytime.
 
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DMGrier

VIP Member
I have friends that have the first generation xbox which means no upgrades in 6 and 1/2 years and still able to run the most modern games with no upgrade cost.

Yes the hardware is out of date, for it's time when it came out though the hardware was highly impressive. For a almost 7 year old system it holds up well and next year end of 2012 there is going to be a new xbox anyway.

The user that already has a computer especially a laptop with a smart phone has no need for a desktop the xbox is great for the price. The only thing I enjoy about PC gaming that lacks on consol is RTS.
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
xbox sux for graphics, if you know what you're doing a desktop is infinitely better! An xbox is like Hyundai with a bonnet scoop, lots of expectations, little performance.

Put it this way, i upgraded to my current system selling my old mobo, cpu, ram and sound card - break even. I see that as a win. Try play Battlefield 3 on max settings with AA and MSA on a xbox, oh, sorry you cannot.

The vaguery of perception is not equivalent to specification and science. The specs above say it all. Rubbish.
 
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Aastii

VIP Member
xbox sux for graphics, if you know what you're doing a desktop is infinitely better! An xbox is like hyundai with a bonnet scoop, lots of expectations, little performance.

Put it this way, i upgraded to my current system selling my old mobo, cpu, ram and sound card - break even. I see that as a win. Try play Battlefield 3 on max settings with AA and MSA on a xbox, oh, sorry you cannot.

This.

Should have really gone into full detail about PC gaming costs, or rather the myth of it:

You spend £450 on a gaming PC, that will allow you to play every game currently out on medium-high settings. You spend £300 on a console(roughly the price of a 360/PS3 at launch. Xbox was less, PS3 was much more). You are currently £150 out of pocket.

You then go and buy 3 games for your shiny new system to keep you going. At £45 per game, that is another £135 for the console. At £35 for the PC, that is £105. You are currently £120 out of pocket.

You buy an average of 1 game per month, brand new, so each month that difference goes down by £10. With in a year, you are at the same price for your PC and your console.

However, there are used games and deals, right? You, you could say halve the price of the console game, over here £20 for a used console game is about right, however you go on Steam, you can get, on their weekly deals, games for ~£5-10 usually, so you are still saving that £10 a month, or more.

So, with in a year, you have spent the same amount, with games included, on both your PC and on your console.

That PC will be lasting at least 3 years, I know from experience, after ~3 years, you are going to be still gaming, but all games are going to be on low settings, medium if the game is well optomized. So, you upgrade.

Any reasonable builder, though, would do what bigfella said, and upgrade in stages. So, with a budget of £120 a year, you would be able to, in the first year, upgrade your video card, with some money left over. Right now, £115 will get you a GTX 460, which I think we can all agree, is a hell of a card and will handle games for the next few years. Bare in mind you would be able to sell your current GPU. A year old graphics card, even a mid range, is going to be selling for at least £50-70. Let's take the lower end though. You are now still £55 up.

Second year, upgrade your motherboard + CPU. That is a little more pricey, so let's say, from our £175, £160. that is the price of a Gigabyte 970A motherboard + a Phenom II 955. No, not the latest and greatest, however that allows you to upgrade, and it is going to be plowing through every game. Again, take into account resale value, which is at least £80 for both the CPU and mobo, 3 years after your initial release of the console and the PC, you are actually £215 up over your console.

You are looking at face value, not thinking about the ability to upgrade, the price of games (even with second hand and deals), which, when factored in, bring the price a hell of a lot more even.

That isn't entirely acurate figures, I know, but when you have £215 left over after 3 years, buying a game a month, you could not buy a game for 10 of those 36 months, and you are still up by £15.

The initial cost is higher, I will agree there, but over time, it is much cheaper. There is a huge myth that you NEED to have spent thousands on a gaming system, which simply isn't true. Something lass then half that price is going to be enough to play all games available on medium-high settings, which will still look and sound better than any console

=EDIT=

Also, compare games that are PC exclusive, or designed for PC primarily, which are able to fully take advantage of the much more up to date hardware that PC's are able to use, to your outdated console games and ports that are limited by the poor graphics and antique 500MHz tri core that the 360 has:

No cutscenes, all in game footage, with some editing for some of em:

[YT]ePrwLMi1fyQ[/yt]

[yt]aPYR60MgP80[/yt]

[yt]-FktL2pu2wE[/yt]
 
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Okedokey

Well-Known Member
I agree Aastii, but it gets worse.

People then go, what do i get email, word docs, pdfs, etc etc on? Can't do your tax return on an xbox etc etc, so they go out and buy a rubbish laptop ON TOP!

So, all in all, a desktop begins to look very very appealing from any angle.

Look at my rig for example, the most i have to spend it $200 bucks in 3 years to remain completely able to play the newest games, run productivity applications, do my tax and skype my mates, and that wont change for a long time to come. (read core i7 2600k, ain't going to be bottlenecked too soon). The rubbish specs of a Xbox make it a poor substitute.
 
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Aastii

VIP Member
I agree Aastii, but it gets worse.

People then go, what do i get email, word docs, pdfs, etc etc on? Can't do your tax return on an xbox etc etc, so they go out and buy a rubbish laptop ON TOP!

So, all in all, a desktop begins to look very very appealing from any angle.

Have the planets realigned or something, what is going on with all this agreeing :p

People also fail to realise that, although their xbox can play DVD's and music, you are able to play full, true HD movies straight from your PC to your TV, or able to play music, only with the clear, crisp sound that a proper, dedicated sound card has to offer with FLAC audio. So you don't only have a superior gaming machine, you have a superior media machine, and a much more versatile machine.

=EDIT=

that first video I poasted of ArmA 2 is another advantage of PC gaming - realism. You aren't stuck to all of your arcade FPS, racing, RTS games that you are on a console, you can go for the proper realism games. Be it ArmA 2, or Project Reality for your FPS, LFS or rFactor for your racing games, Men of War for your RTS, you are able to play your arcade games, like CoD, GRID, F1 and C&C, and have the option for more realistic games too
 
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Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Regardless of the branding, your hardware is at least 5 generations behind. That is it. Simple.
 

-TehXboxHackeR-

New Member
All depends on how much you are willing to spend on a PC. If you have a £600/$800 range, you will beat the Xbox 360 and play Crysis 2 in much higher detail, and faster. If its a bit lower (Say £400/$500,$600) You can still do it, just need to turn graphic settings down a tad. But even so, PC gaming is free (On most games) and usually cheaper. So even having a £200/$300 console, You will probably spend less than that buying games for your PC than your Xbox 360. After time you could be spending around £1000/$1500 for games AND your xbox 360. Get where Im going?
 

Matthew1990

New Member
Regardless of the branding, your hardware is at least 5 generations behind. That is it. Simple.

Yes but it plays new games smoothly and will always do....well until new xbox comes out.

PC gaming is dead. It has been for quite a while now.

The pirates killed the gaming. The games producers can not be even bothered to make games for PC since they are easily pirated and giving them no profit.

All games on xbox at 1080p look like DX10 so stop talking rubbish xbox is last generation console.

How many DX11 games is there for PC? Or even how many DX10 is there? We are talking 10 to 20 max.
 

mihir

VIP Member
What 10-20 games for dx10 and dx11 ???

And Xbox games can be pirated just as easily I have seen them, I have used them.
Atleast 10 of my friends have xboxes and all of them use pirated games since the console games are extremely expensive compared to pc games here. And they can get a pirated game for $2. As for Pc most of the original games are around 11 bucks.
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
Yes but it plays new games smoothly and will always do....well until new xbox comes out.

PC gaming is dead. It has been for quite a while now.

The games producers can not be even bothered to make games for PC since they are easily pirated and giving them no profit.

Lol, Battlefield 3 anyone? Made for PC as its beginning point, not the other way around. Consoles (read all) are making a loss. Also as we haven't seen the PC port for the xbox, don't be so sure it will be as good. I am glad Dice have developed Frostbite 2 engine with PC gamers in mind as i see console gaming us unsustainable.

and more here:

DICE rendering architect Johann Andersson the engine BF3 is built on -- Frostbite 2.0 -- is "primarily developed for DirectX 11"; XP and DX9 won't be supported (though you may be able to hack it). Also the engine will be especially optmized for 64-bit -- thankfully a lot of you have chosen the road less travelled. Good news in itself, but since consoles only support DX9, the implication is the PC version will be a "true" PC game.
http://www.neoseeker.com/news/14494...d-frostbite-2-engine-good-news-for-pc-gamers/



Also

EA’s DICE studio has recommend that PC gamers of Battlefield 3 should have the Windows 7 64-bit operating system and a Quad-core Intel or AMD CPU to really harness the power of its powerhouse Frostbite 2 engine
http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=31136

Min specs: DirectX 10 or 11 compatible Nvidia or AMD ATI card, sorry not on Xbox

All games on xbox at 1080p look like DX10 so stop talking rubbish xbox is last generation console.

What? How subjective is that? How can they possible look like DX10 when they're dx9 or worse? Lol.

The Xbox API is similar to DirectX version 8.1 (exclusive version 4.08.01.0810), but is non-updateable like other console technologies. The Xbox was code named DirectXbox, but this was shortened to Xbox for its commercial name. The Xbox 360 is stuck at 9.0c - never to be dx10 or above.

No matter which way you look at it at least 3 gens behind (more if you count rubbish hardware).

How many DX11 games is there for PC? Or even how many DX10 is there? We are talking 10 to 20 max.

Fail. I count around 60 DirectX 10 games and around 30 Direct X 11 games and this is for incomplete lists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support

The point is, we are seeing the rise and fall of consoles. Back in the day, the hardware would lead the software by quite a bit, now its the other way around. The hardware that is cutting edge 5 years ago, cannot play the games of today (read dx 9). Your xbox has no upgrade path and a limited lifetime and will be game-developed for the lowest common denominator. PC gamers however can upgrade over and over (remember i did it break even cost wise), and continue to play the latest and greatest - combined with the other stuff a pc can do. Xbox is for kids.
 
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PohTayToez

Active Member
Atleast 10 of my friends have xboxes and all of them use pirated games since the console games are extremely expensive compared to pc games here. And they can get a pirated game for $2. As for Pc most of the original games are around 11 bucks.

You can't just pop in a pirated game and play it. XBox DVD drives are set up at the firmware level to not play games from writable discs. The only way to get by it is by taking apart the XBox, liking the DVD drive to a computer and flashing new firmware on to it. Even then every so often Microsoft comes out with a new update that will either kill or detect popular custom firmwares and remove them and/or ban your console permanently from Xbox Live.
 

Aastii

VIP Member
Yes but it plays new games smoothly and will always do....well until new xbox comes out.

PC gaming is dead. It has been for quite a while now.

The pirates killed the gaming. The games producers can not be even bothered to make games for PC since they are easily pirated and giving them no profit.

All games on xbox at 1080p look like DX10 so stop talking rubbish xbox is last generation console.

How many DX11 games is there for PC? Or even how many DX10 is there? We are talking 10 to 20 max.

And will look worse as it plays them

PC gaming is clearly not dead. It is so not dead that it not only beats consoles in time spent playing games by the users, but in money made, unit sales, everything. What you are doing is saying "more people bought CoD on 360 than did on PC". Well that is true, for two reasons.

Firstly, most of the CoD fanboys reside on consoles. After CoD4, relatively few people on PC bought CoD

Secondly, most PC gamers aren't FPS players, and that is where the explaination for the extra time played and the extra sales comes from, your PC exclusives.

There have been more units sold of the Sims games and expansions than the top 5 games of the Xbox 360 and the PS3 combined. Same goes with units of WoW and its expansions.

Even with expansions taken out, each game, so JUST the sims and JUST vanilla WoW, total sales are more than the top 6 selling Xbox games combined.

the only Xbox game that has sold more units than Starcraft is BLOPs.

Every day, more people play just WoW and LoL, just two games, than go online on the Xbox.

The only time a console beats the PC is the Wii, because there are so many casual gamers and families, and because Nintendo bundle so many games. However, these are sales which overshadow the PC, I can not prove this point, but how long do you really think a Wii gamer will spend playing games compared to a PC gamer?

My mum has a Wii, she goes on it maybe an hour a week total. That is to go on Wii fit, do the daily stuff, then go off. I can imagine that is a similar routine for the majority of other people on the Wii, or they will go on maybe once or twice a week for an hour.

Compare that to a PC gamer. I am what you would probably consider a hardcore PC gamer, I spend probably 30+ hours a week gaming, 90% of that time online. Take me out of the equation and just consider other gamers, I can tell you for a fact that over half of the people I play with come on and play daily. These aren't friends or clan members, these are just random people that I notice on every day, and they are playing for hours a day. I do not play WoW, I rarely play LoL, so I am not seeing the two most played games, but I am seeing the third most played PC game, CoD4, and people are on it every day.

It is another myth that PC gaming is less popular than console gaming, and that PC gaming is dieing.

How many console exclusives are there really to show that "devs don't make PC games"? Halo 3, reach and ODST, GoW 2, God of War, MGS. These make up so little play time by people. The bigger titles, CoD, MoH,GTA, every one of them is on PC.

Also, consider sales of console exclusives, they are low. There are some exceptions to this rule, for instance Halo and Gran Turismo, but compare this to PC exclusives, or games released on both platforms, and the console exclusive account for so few sales.

As for piracy, my window cleaner told me how to play pirate games on my 360. That is how difficult it is to play pirated games on the 360. Once again, another myth.

DX10 was a bit of a joke, however DX10.1 wasn't. What it did was make DX much more efficient, as well as more certain features, to be included, certain features that the 360 can not use. For instance, MSAA. This allows for much prettier games, without a huge drop in performance.

What you have just said, though, is true, and there is a reason. Compare PC games that feature both, and you can see a difference, however, console games, no, and it is down to economics. It takes far too long and costs far too much to make the same game twice, hence porting, and when you port a game, you are restricted by the now hugely outdated consoles you are originally coding for.

So, what we are seeing is quad and hex core CPUs not being touched, because the 360 only features a tri-core CPU. We aren't seeing tesselation being used fully, because the 360 doesn't support it because it doesn't have DX11 support. We aren't seeing much more detailed textures, because the 360 simply isn't powerful enough.

So, saying a game is DX10, is really just a marketing scheme, because you are right, the difference, isn't. Compare though DX10 to DX11, you are seeing noticable difference. Compare, then, DX11 to the ancient DX9 of the 360, and they are two different beasts.

Thanks to console gaming, and thanks to the majority of companies trying to make more money by being able to release games on both consoles and PC, we are seeing hardware from 2011 being held back by hardware and software from 2004. It isn't that the 360 is magic and able to keep up and look amazing, it is that the potential that the PC has isn't being shown because of the pathetic performance the consoles have in comparison.

bigfella covered the DX10/11 games point

All depends on how much you are willing to spend on a PC. If you have a £600/$800 range, you will beat the Xbox 360 and play Crysis 2 in much higher detail, and faster. If its a bit lower (Say £400/$500,$600) You can still do it, just need to turn graphic settings down a tad. But even so, PC gaming is free (On most games) and usually cheaper. So even having a £200/$300 console, You will probably spend less than that buying games for your PC than your Xbox 360. After time you could be spending around £1000/$1500 for games AND your xbox 360. Get where Im going?

For £450 I built a system for a client last week that is able to play every single game currently out on high settings. You don't NEED to spend massive amounts.
 

Okedokey

Well-Known Member
You can't just pop in a pirated game and play it. XBox DVD drives are set up at the firmware level to not play games from writable discs. The only way to get by it is by taking apart the XBox, liking the DVD drive to a computer and flashing new firmware on to it. Even then every so often Microsoft comes out with a new update that will either kill or detect popular custom firmwares and remove them and/or ban your console permanently from Xbox Live.

You can chip them for about 20 bucks, done.
 

mihir

VIP Member
@Pohtaytoes I know, being an Indian I have seen a lot of mods and piracy being done. :p
 
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claptonman

New Member
Side discussion: In theory, wouldn't be easier to port games from PC to Xbox instead of the other way around, like they usually do? It seems like it would be harder to code a game that would work on a variety of different systems (PC) than it would to code to a specific system. (xbox)

And brilliant post, Aastii.
 
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