Upgrade existing or Build/Buy new

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riley454

New Member
My 8yo desktop is getting a bit slow and I'm considering the best value options to either improve this machine or build/buy something new.

Current system
Packard Bell iMedia X821
Motherboard: Intel Model D845GVAD2, i845G Chipset with onboard graphics
CPU: Intel Pentium4, 2.5GHz
1Gb Kingston DDR RAM (PC3200 200MHz)
Windows XP Home with SP3

I'm hoping to spend around $500 but I am not really restricted on cost, so if there is good reason to spend more I will.

Firstly am I likely to get much improvement by adding a PCI video card, adding extra 1Gb RAM, upgrading OS and either reformatting and starting again or buy cleanup software or something? And is this going to be cost effective compared to buy/build new?

Secondly if I build new, how much of what I already have is worth salvaging?
How can I find out if modern MBs will fit my case and whether PSU may need upgrading etc? I have a good 21" monitor and speakers so they don't need replacing, but HDD is too small(only 40Gb) and DVD burner has problems. I have plenty of wiring and USB sockets from this and other old pcs.

The machine is mostly used for websurfing with some gaming and a fair bit of video(streaming and downloading) as well as the everyday low effort programs most people use at home, so I don't need anything too fancy but a nice midrange setup would be preferred, and I don't mind paying a little extra for quality components where required. What are people's thoughts on this, and what components should I spend good money on and what is ok to get cheap?
 
Your machine is too outdated to upgrade, you'll be wasting your money for such little performance gain you'll get out of it. You can build a decent system that will suit you for around $600 I'm guessing. What type of games do you play or would like to play?
 
really if you've managed to play on that for this long then there's a 500 buck build i put up on another thread that would suit you fine, otherwise we can just change the psu and gpu to make it a little longer lasting if you plan to play some newer stuff like bf3.
 
That's pretty much what I thought johnb.

Gaming is mostly young kids online "wizard 101", "Moshi", me playing poker etc so nothing too labor intensive. PS3 and Wii is used for "proper" games.
 
 
OK so I'm convinced now from my research that building new is the best way to go. And thanks johnnyp for putting the effort of sourcing components for a complete machine. Everything in there seems to suit my likely needs with a bit of extra punch and room to upgrade if needed. As I am in Australia not all the exact products you suggested are always available and where they are, variations(good and bad) in pricing can affect my decisions on individual components, so I have a few questions to help me research and source locally available parts at a good price.

As johnnyp's suggested machine seems to suit my needs, I'll base my questions around that level of product here so I can later take the general advice to the relevant forum for more specifics.

Mobo/CPU: What specs are important and is the manufacturer a consideration and why?

RAM: Many brands and variations in price. Important specs? Good/Bad manufacturers?

Video card: Western Digital have a 1Gb card for similar price as the 500Mb ASUS. Once again, how important is the manufacturer and what are the important specs?

Power Supply: How can I calculate what size PSU I need for the planned system? I have 2 or 3 that haven't been used for a while but not sure their specs off the top of my head. If they suit, should I get them inspected for safety/performance or something?

HDD: For the same price locally Western Digital have 64Mb cache, 6Gb/s. Also there are products SATA II/SATA III. Are any of these likely to affect me? Again, how important are brand names for HDD?

DVD/CD Burner: For some reason these seem to be way overpriced in Australia. I don't rip/burn or play many discs as most vids/music is on External drive or iPod/iPhone so speed is not a huge issue. Is it worth buying cheap and expecting to replace from time to time or better to pay a bit extra for a brand that will last longer? From my experience they all have a short lifespan.

Operating System: I have Win7 on laptop but at the moment prefer XP. Can I transfer my current XP license to the new machine or purchase an additional license to save a few dollars or is this a bad idea?

Case: I have a couple of cases available including from my current machine, how can I tell if the new Mobo and components will fit in one of them?
 
You can't transfer your XP license from your laptop to your new build unless you installed the retail version of XP on your laptop and not the OEM. And you must uninstall XP from your laptop. I would definately consider going with windows 7, you can make it look similar to XP and will be more future proof. Unless the power supplys you have are name brand units, I wouldn't put them in my new build. Western Digital doesn't make video cards, they make hard drives so you must have gotten that one confused. Motherboard manufacturers can't test every different stick of ram available in their boards. For the most part, as long the memory matches what the board supports, it should be ok. You might get a bad stick every now and then but thats common. I would actually get a little better video card then what he picked though, really don't want to go too cheap on it.
 
johnb35 said:
Your machine is too outdated to upgrade, you'll be wasting your money for such little performance gain you'll get out of it. You can build a decent system that will suit you for around $600 I'm guessing. What type of games do you play or would like to play?
Click to expand...

well ive got a packard bell istart 2369 and i have fully updated MINE!

I cant see why you cant do it... get a new mb first.
 
scopestech said:
well ive got a packard bell istart 2369 and i have fully updated MINE!

I cant see why you cant do it... get a new mb first.
Click to expand...

Getting a new motherboard basically means you are building a new system because you have to get all new hardware. But a lot of times you can't use a standard motherboard in an OEM case as the case connections for power and usb usually won't connect to the motherboard without modding and you will get better airflow if you buy a new and better case.
 
riley454 said:
how much of what I already have is worth salvaging?
Click to expand...
Might as well find another use for it. Once you get the new one up, you could fresh install the os to the old one, which will help it's performance.

riley454 said:
1) Mobo/CPU: What specs are important and is the manufacturer a consideration and why?
2) Power Supply: How can I calculate what size PSU I need for the planned system? I have 2 or 3 that haven't been used for a while but not sure their specs off the top of my head.
3) HDD: For the same price locally Western Digital have 64Mb cache, 6Gb/s. Also there are products SATA II/SATA III. Are any of these likely to affect me? Again, how important are brand names for HDD?
4) DVD/CD Burner
5) Case: I have a couple of cases
Click to expand...
1) A couple of diffs in MB - get the latest socket design. Intell - 1155 or AMD - AM3+. Most newer boards will have Sata III (which is 6.0 Gb/s) and Sata II ports (or 3Gb/s) and high speed USB 3.0. Some motherboards, or cpu+mb(depending on the brand/models) have graphics processing built in (IGP)for things like HD/BR content and 1 or 2 monitors, but not good at higher graphically demanding games/prog's. A system that has an IGP will run a dedicated video card.
2) Power Supply (PSU) Tech Guide
Most likely you'll want a new PS for a new rig. A quality maker like Seasonic/XFX/Antec/Corsiar/Pc Power&Cooling/Silverstone.
What PS's do you have? (manuf+model). And how long have you hade them/it? Maybe just sell them if they are worth anything.
3) No, the Sata II/Sata III part won't affect the speed of the HDD because they can't transfer that fast anyways. Sata II will still work in a Sata III mb sata port. The amount of cashe doesn't have a lot to do with it's speed , either. But, lol, Sata III is newer tech, so migh as well go for it. Samsung F3/F4 are reliable and fast. WD Caviar Blacks are as well and have a bit more warranty. Either one. Or Seagate Baracuda w/7200.12 firmware is good.
4) Whatever burner is cheapest. Samsung is a good, quiet unit.
5) If they are not OEM you could post them here for feedback.
riley454 said:
Firstly am I likely to get much improvement by adding a PCI video card, Gaming is mostly young kids online "wizard 101", "Moshi", me playing poker etc so nothing too labor intensive. PS3 and Wii is used for "proper" games. The machine is mostly used for websurfing with some gaming and a fair bit of video(streaming and downloading) as well as the everyday low effort programs most people use at home, so I don't need anything too fancy but a nice midrange setup would be preferred, and I don't mind paying a little extra for quality components where required. What are people's thoughts on this, and what components should I spend good money on and what is ok to get cheap?
Click to expand...
I looked breifly for the requirements of those 2 games and didn't find much. But I think a setup with a better IGP will run them just fine, and for sure your other stated tasks. Then a dedicated vc can be added as an upgrade later on if needed. But we need to make sure about Moshi and anything/other games that the PC needs to be able to run right away, before the VC is left out.

Any other games or programs that you think are more heavily GPU dependant?

For this build I suggest AMD for it's performance vs price. The Phenom II x4 955 is still the same great cpu it's always been. Only now it's much cheaper. It will easily handle all these uses and will handle more intense usage if/when wanted. Coupled with an AM3+ mb, the processor could be upgraded if ever needed.
 
Some very helpful feedback guys. I think I'm able to research individual components a bit better now.

My concern about onboard vs dedicated video card is solely based on my current system which has 1Gb RAM and (I think) 64Mb onboard video which sometimes has issues with some applications. I know this setup is way out of date, so what would be an acceptable combination by today's standards? Surely 4Gb RAM and 512Mb/1Gb video(either onboard or card) would more than suit my needs.

I need to find out more about mobos/cpus so I'll research the finer details in the relevant forums, but my understanding is to look for something with the latest technology that fits my budget and accepts the components I am adding with some updatability. I guess the same applies to HDDs etc. Is that a fair description?
 
riley454 said:
Surely 4Gb RAM and 512Mb/1Gb video(either onboard or card) would more than suit my needs.


look for something with the latest technology that fits my budget and accepts the components I am adding with some updatability. Is that a fair description?
Click to expand...

For 512Mb/1GB vc you'll need dedicated card. AMD IGP for instance is 128 mb. Check out the HD 5770. More than what's needed, but futureproofs it a bit for the kids' games.


:good:
 
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really would be fine with an hd5670, or even a hd5450 truly, there's one of those on sale now for 15 after mir, from xfx too, and those games take nothing to run, my igpu nvidia geforce 7050 can run those games.
 
jonnyp11 said:
really would be fine with an hd5670, or even a hd5450 truly, there's one of those on sale now for 15 after mir, from xfx too, and those games take nothing to run, my igpu nvidia geforce 7050 can run those games.
Click to expand...

IMO there's not enough difference in 5450 vs 4250 or 4290 to warrant the cost of the 5450. Should be able to get within 20 bucks of 5670 vs 5770/6770 1GB models.
 
Thanks for all the input everyone.:)

As far as I can tell, locally(Australia) 5450 is one of very few cards I can get for $50 or less.

Here is one supplier as an example

Is DDR3 vs GDDR3 an issue? Likewise, how much importance should I put on clock speed, PCIe 2.0 vs 2.1, 64 vs 128 bit and the listed manufacturers etc when I choose a card?

And what considerations are there when buying a video card and a mobo/cpu? What mobo/cpu specs affect my choice of video card and vice-versa?

The same applies for most other components, should I choose components before cpu, cpu before mobo, mobo before components etc etc etc?:confused:
 
riley454 said:
Thanks for all the input everyone.:)

As far as I can tell, locally(Australia) 5450 is one of very few cards I can get for $50 or less.

Here is one supplier as an example
Click to expand...
from the list you linked, get the HD6450. better performance and cooler operation than the 5450

riley454 said:
Is DDR3 vs GDDR3 an issue? Likewise, how much importance should I put on clock speed, PCIe 2.0 vs 2.1, 64 vs 128 bit and the listed manufacturers etc when I choose a card?
Click to expand...
general rule is that Gddr is a touch faster than just plain DDR. as for Gddr3 vs ddr3, there is no real difference. Always get the highest available Bit card you can.
 
those numbers all have to do with the speed the information goes to and from the memory to the gpu, so higher bits and gddr/ddr is always better.
 
Okay so from everything so far the basic advice I understand is to get the latest technology and highest specs that suit my budget and requirements.

The one and only final part of my questioning that still hasn't been answered yet is how important the brand name of products are. I know johnb touched on this issue in regard to memory sticks, but how does brand name affect my choice of the more expensive components like motherboards, CPUs and video cards?

Staying on the same topic of vid cards, what is the difference between the same spec card between ASUS/Power Colour/Sapphire/Gigabyte etc with their different pricing and how does that relate to motherboards and CPUs?

Sorry I lied, there is one other question not answered yet, do I select components first or motherboard or cpu?

Now I've got the general buying list, where do I put individual parts on the priority list? And how do I sort them in order of importance?
 
for brands you should look at these

Mobo: Asus, Gigabyte, EVGA, (MSI is good, but not as good as those)

Gfx Cards: Asus, EVGA, Gigabyte, MSI, PNY, XFX, Sapphire, idk about Galaxy, thye don't seem to suck but have never heard anything about them much
 
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