Mergeing 3 hard drives.

highrev15k

New Member
Is there a program that will allow me to make my 3 internal hard drives appear as a single drive in windows?
I know the post below me sounds the same but he is talking about partitions. I want something that will combine my C G H drives into just a single C drive with out going RAID.
 
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If you were runniing two sata drives you could create a sata array. But if you are running three ide drives you are going to see two of those in Raid with the third seen as another logical drive. In Linux you would hda1, hdb1, hdc1 and so forth. I would like to see a program for combining drives but that won't be happening anytime soon. The two 250gb ide drives along with the 500gb sata here would make a nice 1terabyte drive.
 
Well all three are sata 2 of them 250 GB and one 500 gb. I was under the impression that i cant do RAID because it will set all my HD to the lowest capacity one and I need the space. Also what is a sata array?
 
The problem you're going to initally face highrev is that you will have to format all 3 drives to make this work, so I hope you have a lot of blank DVD's or another PC you can back your stuff up to temporarily ;)

The way I have mine set up (3x120GB SATA-I = 1x360GB Striped Array) involved setting each drive to a "Simple" drive in Windows Disk Management thingy, and then selecting the drives I wanted to merge. You're then given the option of either having Striped (meaning data is stored in parts on all 3 drives, meaning faster access but real troubles if one drive buys the farm!) or mirrored (where you can only use 2 drives, and one acts as a mirror for the other - which is good for business servers but not so good for home usage) but this means 2x120GB drives would only give you 120GB of storage in mirrored mode.

I think striped is what you are looking for, and so far - touch wood - I've not had any major problems. You just have to make sure that, if you ever take your PC apart, that you plug the drives back in exactly where they came from or Windows may have a small fit...
 
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A RAID only makes two physical drives work in tandem
RAID can use any number of drives not just 2.

You could RAID the 2 250GB drives if you wanted them to appear as 1 drive but you'd have to RAID0 it unless you wanted to lose 250GB. But to get the 500GB drive in you're right, it would be cut down so only 250GB was useable. RAIDing all 3 drives in a RAID5 would leave you with 500GB (250GB lost straight off the bat for the 500GB drive and another 250GB lost for parity).
 
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I believe RAID1 is mirroring Cromewell? RAID0 is striping and that makes 2 drives appear as 1, RAID1 puts 2 identical drives into perpetual back-up.
 
Yes it is, I knew what I was thinking just not what I was typing. I'm going to fix that. Thanks.
 
If all three drives here were sata instead of the twin 250gb ide drives I would lose the 250gb off of the top on the 500gb model just installed lately in that sense. Another thing to weigh is the controller or controller card used and what that supports. Since multi OSing a system requires different logical drives I'll have to add another three 500gb satas for Vienna when that comes out, Mandriva, and relieve the burden on the XP Pro drive being shared for storage at the moment. That would total upto... :eek: 500+500+500+500+250+250gb = 2 1/2 terabytes!
 
windows has a built in feature called dynamic disks, which allows you to stripe together so to speak several HDs into one volume. You can mix sizes and speeds with this feature. I have never really personally used it so I can't give an opinion on it either way. I can assume from my experience that a RAID array would out perform it in every possible way.

Windows 2000 introduced the Logical Disk Manager for dynamic storage. All versions of Windows 2000 support three types of dynamic disk volumes (along with basic storage): simple volumes, spanned volumes and striped volumes:

* Simple volume, a volume with disk space from one disk.
* Spanned volumes, where multiple disks (up to 32) show up as one, increasing it in size but not enhancing performance. When one disk fails, the array is destroyed. Some data may be recoverable. Please note this corresponds to JBOD, not to RAID-1.
* Striped volumes, also known as RAID-0, store all their data across several disks in stripes. This allows better performance because disk read and writes are balanced across multiple disks.

Windows 2000 also added support for the iSCSI protocol.

sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_2000#Basic_and_dynamic_disk_storage

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Disk_Manager
 
Dynamic disks are not available in XP home. I don't know if that is the OS they are using though. I could have sworn I put something about dynamic volumes in this thread already but I guess it was another thread. Probably something about merging partitions.
 
The problem with striping on Raid is that the files are broken down into segments that are spread across the drives that are installed. The following outlines the process in greater detail.
"
Striping

Stripping is a feature of a RAID configuration that offers huge performance gain. Data in a striped array is written or read across all the array drives simultaneously. When the computer writes data into the disk, the data is divided across several pieces and inserted into each individual disk at the same time. Similarly, when the computer request to read a file, the multiple pieces of data from each disk drive are extracted together to be processed by the CPU, which effectively increases read/write time. Striping involves partitioning each drive's storage space into units which are known as the stripe block size.

There're two important variables in a striped array, namely the stripe width and stripe size. Both factors greatly determine the performance of a striped array.
  • Stripe Width:

    The stripe width refers to the number of drives in the array.
  • Stripe Size:

    The stripe size represents the size of a single chunk of unit data to be written into each disk. The stripe size is configurable and can range from 512 bytes to several megabytes. The default IDE configuration is 64K. It is commonly a multiple of 8k.

    To demonstrate this, assume we need to write a 5MB file into a disk array. If we have an array of 5 drives and writing the data at 100K per unit, we'll need 10 write cycles to complete writing the entire file. Note that each cycle only writes 500K of the file. Now if we have an array of 10 drives, we can effectively reduce the write time into half since each write cycle writes 1MB of the file. This will also mean that only 5 write cycles are needed to complete writing the file. So generally, we can see that the more drives that are implemented, the faster its performance. It is also apparent that for larger data size, increasing the strip size will help.

    However, there're certain factors that must be considered when selecting the stripe width and stripe size.

    Firstly, if the stripe size is too small, writing a big file would cause the file to be broken down into many segments across the drives hence utilizing more disk resources. A stripe size too big may exceed the size of the data to be stored and result in space wastage. That is to say if you configure 100K as your stripe size, you'll waste 30K of space if you are to write a 70K sized data.

    Generally, the more drives that are implemented, the better its the performance. However if any one disk breaks down, all data will be lost. This reliability is often measured by mean time between failure (MTBF), which is a inverse proportion to the stripe width. That is to imply that a set of 3 disks is 1/3 as reliable as a single disk. Hence, increasing the number of disk drives in the array for data stripping will also increase the risk of a disk failure.

    The drawback of using striping is that similar hard disks must be used together in the array to prevent latency. As the data parts are read from the various drives to be pieced together to form the original data, the slowest drive will determine when the concatenation completes." http://www.datarecovery.com.sg/data_recovery/types_of_raid_configurations.htm
One thing seen at Microsoft Technet will be useful here since in order to create a spanned volume across mulitple hard drives you have to have and NTFS type partition to begin with.

Spanned Volumes

Spanned volumes combine areas of unallocated space from multiple disks into one logical volume. The areas of unallocated space can be different sizes. Spanned volumes require two disks, and you can use up to 32 disks. When creating spanned volumes, keep these points in mind:
•You can extend only NTFS volumes or unformatted volumes.
•After you create or extend a spanned volume, you cannot delete any portion of it without deleting the entire spanned volume.
•You cannot stripe or mirror spanned volumes. For more information about striped or mirrored volumes, see “Striped Volumes” or “Mirrored Volumes” later in this section.
•Spanned volumes do not provide fault tolerance. If one of the disks containing a spanned volume fails, the entire volume fails, and all data on the spanned volume becomes inaccessible. The reliability for a spanned volume is less than the least reliable disk in the set.
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Windo...79a5-4ba7-ade2-2a8cf5e9ba901033.mspx?mfr=true
 
Yeah so if you have the kind of RAID setup that increases performance, then if one drive fails, your entire setup fails.
 
There was one thing in there about deletion of any files you will want to look at as well. "•After you create or extend a spanned volume, you cannot delete any portion of it without deleting the entire spanned volume." Go to use something like CCleaner and say... "goodbye"! :eek: waaat happpppeeeneddd?
 
If you are fortunate enough a RAID 5 setup will rebuild. You can see from the material posted there that it still remains an involved and delicate process. If one thing goes everything falls apart in most cases. You would have to "constant" backups to avoid loss of access to data being stored. For the average home it's simply much easier going with a few large capacity drives rather then several small ones used as one logical vloume.
 
Thanks for all the replies. It looks like Im just going to have to deal with multiple drives. I really cant afford to lose any of my HDD space to RAID.
 
Just use JBOD!!!!!!!!

"Just a bunch of disks"? It helps to provide a link for looking that over a little. :D

JBOD

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- JBOD (for "just a bunch of disks," or sometimes "just a bunch of drives") is a derogatory term - the official term is "spanning" - used to refer to a computer's hard disks that haven't been configured according to the RAID (for "redundant array of independent disks") system to increase fault tolerance and improve data access performance. The RAID system stores the same data redundantly on multiple disks that nevertheless appear to the operating system as a single disk. Although, JBOD also makes the disks appear to be a single one, it accomplishes that by combining the drives into one larger logical one. JBOD doesn't deliver any advantages over using separate disks independently and doesn't provide any of the fault tolerance or performance benefits of RAID.
LAST UPDATED:30 Jan 2001
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid5_gci343350,00.html

Here's one setup for 2000, XP, 2003, and even Linux Fedora Core 5 for using the usb bus as seen at http://www.addonics.com/products/io/ad4ideu2.asp
 
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