(120hz)Inconsistent frame rate/VSync issues/stuttering

W

WeApOn

New Member
I've had a hell of a time trying to figure out what is causing this. Multiple forum posts on multiple boards, and I'm still at a loss...

Here are two videos to showcase what is going on:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/h9ppml

In short -- Whenever I have VSync ON, or even Adaptive VSync ON, I am experiencing major stuttering issues. In the videos above, it appears that my framerate is jumping between my refresh rate(either 144 or 120, my monitor supports both) and 60fps.

In other applications, FRAPS is reporting that I have a smooth framerate of 70 or so, but my mouse is staggering just as the car does in the VSync ON video. If I try to move my mouse around the screen smoothly, it will stagger and jump every other second.

I am dying for ideas and I don't know what is causing this at this point. Do I have a bad video card? I'm out of ideas otherwise.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
Turn Vsync off and see if it still stutters badly. Can you tell us your system specs?
Click to expand...

Check the second video in my link above -- VSync off is producing close to no stuttering from what I can see.

I have a GTX 670, an i7 860, and an ASUS 144hz monitor.

Anything else you'd like to know?
 
salvage-this

salvage-this

Active Member
What FPS are you getting with Vsync off? Play a game that you know that you can get over 144 fps in. See if it is there.

Do you have Adaptive Vsync in the nVidia control panel on and Vsync on in game? What is your monitor set to? Do you have the refresh rate manually set in some games?
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
What FPS are you getting with Vsync off? Play a game that you know that you can get over 144 fps in. See if it is there.

Do you have Adaptive Vsync in the nVidia control panel on and Vsync on in game? What is your monitor set to? Do you have the refresh rate manually set in some games?
Click to expand...

With VSync off I am hardly noticing the issue, if at all. However, expectedly, I am getting alot of tearing. Mainly because I am testing on games that I know I can run easily over my refresh rate.

I have tested with Adaptive VSync ON and in-game Vsync OFF and have still experienced this mouse stutter/stagger. I also made sure that NVIDIA CP was set to use their settings, not the game settings.

My monitor was set to 144hz for that test. I haven't played around with manual refresh rates yet in the games that I have tested, unless they happened to be hard-coded into the game itself.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
Running some tests, with VSync ON and my refresh rate set to 144hz, certain apps that I should easily be getting 144fps in are doing this:

(Taken from FRAPS real-time FPS monitor)
FPS
58
63
57
60
63
57
63
57
63
57
63
57
63
57

For some reason, I cannot get higher than 63 FPS, and it's constantly jumping between 57 and 63?
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
UPDATE

It seems that this is happening when I have my other monitors plugged in. Something seems to be causing my programs to think that my primary monitor is not my primary monitor. I can change my refresh rate on my main monitor, but VSync seems to ignore it.

What could be happening when I am plugging in my extra monitors that would cause this?
 
salvage-this

salvage-this

Active Member
Sorry about the delay in the reply, I had some stuff I needed to work on.

Post #5

The only other think that I can think of here is that some games might not be able to hit 144Hz. Unlikely, but everything else checks out.

Post #6

I am not an expert on what ranges vsync will allow for before it scales down/up the GPU performance. However I would guess that the +/- 3 fps around 60 is what vsync allows for.

Post #7

That might be the reason. I would guess that you do not have more than one 144Hz monitor. Maybe vsync is getting tripped up with the different refresh rates.

EDIT: If you set the 144Hz monitor to 60Hz do you still have the problem when vsync is enabled and both monitors connected?
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
No worries at all. :)

Correct -- I have one 144hz monitor and my secondary "monitor" is actually a Yamaha receiver that passes video through to two 60hz televisions.

I think you are exactly correct that VSync is getting confused between the two "monitors".

If I run both monitors at 60hz I get a very smooth, locked 60fps with no mouse lag.

So at this point it's definitely an issue of having my main monitor cloned with my receiver. I'd really like to keep it this way.. so I need to find out if anyone else has had this problem, and how I might be able to keep the clone with different refresh rates.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
After some testing last night it appears that as long as I am cloning my primary 120hz monitor to my 60hz TV(through a receiver), I am unable to get higher than ~60fps. It's like Windows thinks I'm capped at 60fps.

Unless I "extend" my desktop, I am unable to get the correct performance on my primary monitor. I suppose I could make a workaround if I made a profile that disabled my TV when I wasn't using it. Does NVIDIA CP support this, or would I need a third party program? This is not my ideal solution at all though...
 
salvage-this

salvage-this

Active Member
I do not think that the nvidia control panel has that functionality like AMD CCC does. Like you I hate using 3rd party software to accomplish tasks if there is a better work around. Looks like Windows Key + P might allow you to cycle through display options quickly. That might only work for laptops. I also took a quick look at using a batch file to enable/disable the Yamaha receiver. It looks possible, but not easy to do. It looks like extra software might be your best option.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/

You can set multiple profiles with ultramon. It also sounds like you can set those profiles to switch with a hotkey of your choice.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
I do not think that the nvidia control panel has that functionality like AMD CCC does. Like you I hate using 3rd party software to accomplish tasks if there is a better work around. Looks like Windows Key + P might allow you to cycle through display options quickly. That might only work for laptops. I also took a quick look at using a batch file to enable/disable the Yamaha receiver. It looks possible, but not easy to do. It looks like extra software might be your best option.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/

You can set multiple profiles with ultramon. It also sounds like you can set those profiles to switch with a hotkey of your choice.
Click to expand...

Ha! That's great... I actually own that program already. As you said, I'm not much of a fan of third party programs, but I do appreciate Ultramon. I will definitely have to play around with this. Thanks! :)

Of course, I'd love to solve the issue itself, but I'm starting to think it might be a Windows problem when there are two displays cloned together with different refresh rates. :\
 
salvage-this

salvage-this

Active Member
It boils down to a lowest common denominator problem. If the displays are cloned, i would think that Vsync is trying to use a setting that both displays can achieve. At the same time the 144Hz monitor is trying to push for the higher refresh rate.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
It boils down to a lowest common denominator problem. If the displays are cloned, i would think that Vsync is trying to use a setting that both displays can achieve. At the same time the 144Hz monitor is trying to push for the higher refresh rate.
Click to expand...

Perfect way to describe the issue. Unfortunately it seems like that's how Windows does it. I can't tell it not to behave that way.

I found a thread that shows a way to hack a TV to be 120hz, some people have had success. If I can manage that, I could probably set both displays to 120hz without disabling the other.

Otherwise a hotkey disable function is definitely my best option.

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.
 
salvage-this

salvage-this

Active Member
Happy to help.

Just wondering what is the method that you are thinking about using to bring the TV to 120Hz? If it is close to the same method here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sXeSwe1_dU

I would probably advise against it. LED/LCD panel Overclocking seems far more risky and not worth the benefit (to me). Completely your choice though.
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
yeah it is the same process. It might work, might not. Looks interesting though.
Click to expand...

I'm behind a receiver, so it might be a little tricky. I'm worn out from all the troubleshooting so far as it is.. I think I'll just settle for the hotkeys for the time being.

Thanks again!
 
W

WeApOn

New Member
salvage-this said:
I do not think that the nvidia control panel has that functionality like AMD CCC does. Like you I hate using 3rd party software to accomplish tasks if there is a better work around. Looks like Windows Key + P might allow you to cycle through display options quickly. That might only work for laptops. I also took a quick look at using a batch file to enable/disable the Yamaha receiver. It looks possible, but not easy to do. It looks like extra software might be your best option.

http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/

You can set multiple profiles with ultramon. It also sounds like you can set those profiles to switch with a hotkey of your choice.
Click to expand...

No dice. I can disable my monitor with Ultramon, but no way to clone using Ultramon. Seems like such a basic feature to be left out.

Edit: Creating a profile with an extended desktop will work, and my secondary will be with my TV as the primary monitor. I suppose this will work for now.
 
Last edited:
claptonman

claptonman

New Member
When you play games, just turn off all monitors except the 120hz one. That can be done in the Nvidia control panel.

Also, you should not run vsync with a 120hz. Vsync is for when your computer goes over the hz of your monitor and cause screen tearing. I also have A 670, and I need vsync on in most games otherwise the screen tears.

If you have vsync on, the video card will always try to put out 120 frames, which is not good.
 
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