$200 to upgrade my computer....

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
The Athlon II 240/245 are good deals. But the Athlon II 250 is not, to close to the price of the Phenom II 545.

The best deal in the Phenom II X2 is the 545.

The Phenom II 550 gets hit just like the Athlon II 250 because its to close to the price of the Phenom II X3
 
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bomberboysk

Active Member
Ahh OK.

What? The 550 destroys the 250 in any benchmark at stock clock speeds, let alone the fact that the 550 can overclock 20% not blinking.
The athlon II X2's overclock just as well, not to mention that the 710 can be oced pretty easily to 3.4-3.6Ghz easily, just only a bit slower than that of what a 550 will clock to, while also having an extra core. The future is more cores vs less higher clocked cores. GPU manufactures figured that out awhile ago, the latest nvidia offerings have 248 shaders in them.
 

87dtna

Active Member
The Athlon II 240/245 are good deals. But the Athlon II 250 is not, to close to the price of the Phenom II 545.

The best deal in the Phenom II X2 is the 545.

The Phenom II 550 gets hit just like the Athlon II 250 because its to close to the price of the Phenom II X3

I agree the 240 in the one to get if you are on a super tight budget, it's only $60.
However, the 545 is $90. For $10 more you can have and unlocked multiplier and 100mhz faster stock clock. It takes $30 more to get another core but 200 mhz slower clock than the 545 (current price on the 720 is $120).

The 710 and 550 are the same price. I first bought the 710 when the PII lineup came out. It overclocked decent, 3.1 ghz stable. But when the 550 was released, I UPGRADED to that. 2 cores at 3.8 does most things faster than 3 cores at 3.1ghz. Not to mention the fact that I now have a quad at 3.8....not even a comparison now.
 

87dtna

Active Member
The athlon II X2's overclock just as well, not to mention that the 710 can be oced pretty easily to 3.4-3.6Ghz easily, just only a bit slower than that of what a 550 will clock to, while also having an extra core. The future is more cores vs less higher clocked cores. GPU manufactures figured that out awhile ago, the latest nvidia offerings have 248 shaders in them.

On air with normal voltage?? With my 710 I could get 3250mhz to boot but it wasn't stable. 3.1 was the highest I could get stable.

At any matched clock speed the PII 550 will beat out the 250 easily. I'd way rather have an unlocked multiplier to overclock with, and 3 times as much cache for a measily $20.
 

bomberboysk

Active Member
The 250 isnt worth it, only the 240, 545(close call actually, since its only $10 more for an extra core), and the 7xx/9xx tri's/quads are worth it(except the 965 black edition) imo. Stock voltage means pretty much nothing, and of course on air, the phenom II's dont overclock a whole lot better on water, as long as you have a good air cooler such as a TRUE or Prolimatech Megahalems with AM2 adapter. Also, generally speaking means just that, some 710's will overclock more, some less, but average is 3.4-3.6Ghz while maintaining safe voltages.
 

87dtna

Active Member
I didn't say stock voltage, I said normal voltage...meaning around 1.5v.

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't call the ''average'' 3.4-3.6, because if I only got 3.1 with 1.50 Vcore stable that would mean people would have to be doing 3.8-4.0 to get an ''average'' of 3.4-3.6.

I was still happy with 3.1 as a stable overclock. My old 4600+ windsor core wouldn't go past 220 FSB, and I also built a system with a 4200+ brisbane that wouldn't go past 230 FSB. The 710 was 240 completely stable, and 250 was bootable but not prime95 stable even at 1.55 vcore.
 
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StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
I agree the 240 in the one to get if you are on a super tight budget, it's only $60.
However, the 545 is $90. For $10 more you can have and unlocked multiplier and 100mhz faster stock clock. It takes $30 more to get another core but 200 mhz slower clock than the 545 (current price on the 720 is $120).

The 710 and 550 are the same price. I first bought the 710 when the PII lineup came out. It overclocked decent, 3.1 ghz stable. But when the 550 was released, I UPGRADED to that. 2 cores at 3.8 does most things faster than 3 cores at 3.1ghz. Not to mention the fact that I now have a quad at 3.8....not even a comparison now.

All that is fine and dandy, and I'm glad you like your 550. But using your opinion overclocking just on one 710 is one sighted. Not all 550s clock that well and some dont unlock. I have installed 3 710 and all of them would do 3ghz. on stock voltage. Two would unlock, one would not.

With a 710 it has just as much to do with the board as it does the processor since its locked. People will go out and buy lowerend onboard video boards and wonder why the bus/processor will die at 240/250 mhz. All these 740/785 boards are nothing but a 770 board with onboard video with only 4/5 power phase set up with lowerend mosfets. Hence 80 buck boards.

Just straight out.

The Athlon 240/245 are good deals.
The Phenom 545 is a good deal.
The Phenom 720 is a good deal.

But really the Phenom 550 and Phenom 710 are sorta stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either one is not worth it because you can get a 720 for a few bucks more or a Athlon/Phenom 240/245 and 545 cheaper.
 
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87dtna

Active Member
All that is fine and dandy, and I'm glad you like your 550. But using your opinion overclocking just on one 710 is one sighted. Not all 550s clock that well and some dont unlock.

:confused: To make an average of 3.4-3.6ghz overclock, some have to clock more than that if some are clocking less. No offence but do you know what average means?

And about the 550, 3.8ghz is low end of the ''average'' for 550's as well. I've seen reviews of 4.2 on air.
And yes of course some 550's don't unlock, it was just a bonus. But for this discussion lets stick with the 550 being a dual core only.
If you look at single threading benchmarks, the 550 beats the 720 clock for clock. In gaming, you will never ever notice a difference between a 720 and 550 at the same clock speeds. It doesn't sound like the OP does any multithreaded apps, so whats the point of spend more? Plus he may not be interested in overclocking, so 3.1ghz is better than 2.8.
 

TechShark

Member
All that is fine and dandy, and I'm glad you like your 550. But using your opinion overclocking just on one 710 is one sighted. Not all 550s clock that well and some dont unlock. I have installed 3 710 and all of them would do 3ghz. on stock voltage. Two would unlock, one would not.

With a 710 it has just as much to do with the board as it does the processor since its locked. People will go out and buy lowerend onboard video boards and wonder why the bus/processor will die at 240/250 mhz. All these 740/785 boards are nothing but a 770 board with onboard video with only 4/5 power phase set up with lowerend mosfets. Hence 80 buck boards.

Just straight out.

The Athlon 240/245 are good deals.
The Phenom 545 is a good deal.
The Phenom 720 is a good deal.

But really the Phenom 550 and Phenom 710 are sorta stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either one is not worth it because you can get a 720 for a few bucks more or a Athlon/Phenom 240/245 and 545 cheaper.

So if it were YOU, How would you put $200 towards my computer?

I'm thinking just a Mobo and CPU, that will allow me to keep my existing hardware until i can make more changes.
 

87dtna

Active Member
Please do not get a 240 athlon II, you will notice absolutely no difference over your 5200+ other than the fact that you could run 1066 ram with it which you aren't planning to buy if you go that route.

Get a good motherboard and 2X2gb of 1066 ram now, then save up for a quad core and also a better GPU.
 

matty6660

Member
Well I'd get windows vista premium for a start (possibly with the free win7 upgrade). Or A new cpu or motherboard.
 

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
No offence but do you know what average means?

Think your having a hardtime knowing what anything means unless its about the 550

And about the 550, 3.8ghz is low end of the ''average'' for 550's as well. I've seen reviews of 4.2 on air.

Lets face the fact, For AMD to release a Dual Core Phenom II with a Dual Core Athlon II too, means the Phenom II X2 were the bottom of the barrel of the Quad cores. If they were that good they could make more profit on them as a X3. There was no other reason to cut off two of the cores when they already had the Athlon II with more cores on a wafer to make a profit.

Dont it just make alot of sense if you have a Quad that can do 4ghz. stable with normal voltage that could sell as a X4 965 for over 200 bucks, to kill 2 cores and sell them for 100 bucks:rolleyes: And on top of that it could have been a X3 for 20 bucks more plus you already have a Athlon II.

And yes of course some 550's don't unlock, it was just a bonus. But for this discussion lets stick with the 550 being a dual core only.

Lets do that.

If you look at single threading benchmarks, the 550 beats the 720 clock for clock. In gaming, you will never ever notice a difference between a 720 and 550 at the same clock speeds.

Its amazing you only look at benchmarks that favor the 550 in single threaded programs. And your clock for clock thing, at the same clock they are the same performance core for core plus the 710/720 has a extra core. Both the 550 and 720 have the same core so both clocked at 3ghz. would perform the same in single threaded and in multi threaded the 720 would have a advantage. Hell in multi threaded and overclocked it even beats some quad cores.

The 550/710 is not worth the money when you have a 720 for 20 bucks more or a 245 for 30 bucks less. Its just AMD getting rid of there low yield/buggie quads.

The Phenom II X3 was released to compete against the Core 2 till they got the Athlon II out the door. The Phenom II X2 is just getting rid of the bugged quads.

If AMD already has a Phenom II X3 and X4, plus now a Athlon II. What do you think they wanted the Phenom II X2 for.

1. Lets lose some money for the hell of it and kill 2 of the Phenom II cores, we already have the Athlon II now but who cares.

or

2. How can we get rid of all these low yield quads.

However, we didn’t get any significantly different results when we increased the core voltage by 0.175V (to 1.5V). The CPU worked stably at 3.9GHz, which is as good as it gets.
Note that since Athlon II X2 250 doesn’t belong to the Black Edition family, we had to increase the clock generator frequency to 260MHz to achieve these results. This is where the absence of any L3 cache came in very handy: Athlon II X2 250 didn’t mind speeding up its integrated North Bridge and we didn’t have to lower the corresponding multiplier. As a result, its frequency increased to 2.6GHz, which was no big deal for it as long as we slightly increased its voltage (by 0.1V).

So, ((Athlon II X2 250 proved to be a little more overclocking-friendly than its elder brother, Phenom II X2 550)), even though it is not one of those Black Edition units. Of course, it is way too early to make any final conclusions about the new processors’ overclocking potential judging only by the results obtained on the very first samples. But at this point it looks like Regor core boasts slightly better frequency potential than Deneb and its modifications called Heka and Callisto

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/phenom-athlon-ii-x2_13.html#sect0
 
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bomberboysk

Active Member
Please do not get a 240 athlon II, you will notice absolutely no difference over your 5200+ other than the fact that you could run 1066 ram with it which you aren't planning to buy if you go that route.

Get a good motherboard and 2X2gb of 1066 ram now, then save up for a quad core and also a better GPU.
The Athlon II X2 240 is quite a bit better than the 5200+. the 5200+ is pretty old architecture.
In gaming, you will never ever notice a difference between a 720 and 550 at the same clock speeds.
Gaming is going towards multi threading, heck, GTA IV pretty much requires a triple core, if not a quad core to run decently.
 

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
So if it were YOU, How would you put $200 towards my computer?

I'm thinking just a Mobo and CPU, that will allow me to keep my existing hardware until i can make more changes.


With this one your sorta in a hard place, your still stuck with a DDR2 board, when you upgrade you will have to buy another board for DDR3.

200 bucks.
The X3 720 - 119 bucks
GA MA770 UD3 - 75 bucks



Or save up alittle more and go for a DDR3 board and memory now.

The X3 720 - 119 bucks
GA MA770T UD3P - 85 bucks
4gbs. of DDR3 1333 - 70 bucks
 
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bomberboysk

Active Member
with this one your sorta in a hard place, your still stuck with a ddr2 board, when you upgrade you will have to buy another board for ddr3.

200 bucks.
The x3 720 - 119 bucks
ga ma770 ud3p - 75 bucks



or save up alittle more and go for a ddr3 board and memory now.

The x3 720 - 119 bucks
ga ma770t ud3p - 85 bucks
4gbs. Of ddr3 1333 - 70 bucks
+1
 

2048Megabytes

Active Member
StrangleHold gives good advice. The Phenom II 720 processor, the Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P motherboard and 4 gigabytes of DDR3 1333 RAM are what I would buy. Just save up $70 more.
 

TechShark

Member
With this one your sorta in a hard place, your still stuck with a DDR2 board, when you upgrade you will have to buy another board for DDR3.

200 bucks.
The X3 720 - 119 bucks
GA MA770 UD3 - 75 bucks



Or save up alittle more and go for a DDR3 board and memory now.

The X3 720 - 119 bucks
GA MA770T UD3P - 85 bucks
4gbs. of DDR3 1333 - 70 bucks


Im going with the latter idea. Makes more sense to be patient right and in the long wrong it will be a better decision.

Thanks a lot for the help guys!

and much appreciated for the suggestions stranglehold!

lol and as for all the 550-720 talk.. that was just kind of over my head.

I havnt kept up on AMD processors for a while, so im kind of out of the loop.

It would be nice if they made some performance chart like a list of 20 processors (Fastest to least Fastest)
 

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
I look at it like this.

The Athlon II 240/245 are really good deals.

If you just want to jump up 10 more bucks, the Phenom II 545.

Other then that just spend the 119 and go for the 720BE.

The 550 just reminds me of the dog on TV with no back legs using a cart to get around. You cant just throw away or shoot the dog.
 
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