AMD - vs Intel - question

[Jamin43]

I found an old forum thread on building your PC - that had a section on evaluating AMD and Intel side by side in order to choose which brand of CPU to use ( I think it was from 2005 so it's a pretty dated but still was informative Source Article ).

The general summary at the end was that " if you want a gamer - get an AMD - if you want a Multi-tasker - get an Intel. "

I'd like to stay at $300 or less for both CPU and MOBO for this build - which will probably be more than I really need right now. I may toy around with some video editing ( hobby video editing in the next 2 years ) and use Sketchup - Web page development - Microsoft Office applications - and in the near future viewing television on a 2nd monitor - web surfing - audio / video viewing on Web / DVD movie watching - perhaps.

Once I have a decent PC setup - I may add a mid range Vid card and toy with gaming in the mid term - but it's not a primary focus of the build.

Basically, I want my PC interest be able to expand with some space without being hampered by a bottleneck of my MOBO / CPU / RAM. I've also decided I really want a DDR3 based system - b/c if I upgrade to an i7 - the DDR3 ram cost can be carried over.

I anticipate multi-tasking within the above listed functions - and don't have any experience with AMD cpu's ( or mid to high end Intels for that matter ) so can't make an informed decision.

My best guess is that an AMD Triple core Black Edition for 139.00 with an Asus MOBO will serve my purposes more than adequately. I'd love an i7 or high end quad core but it's beyond what I'm willing to spend right now. I would consider an gut and upgrade in 2-3 years if I feel I need it and the price is about half what they are charging today.

Will the Phenom II x3 720 handle the above function without being bogged down for the next 2-3 years.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649

 

[vinnie107]

Have a look at the AMD Phenom 2 quads. Ive heard they are very good.

 

[Jamin43]

Have a look at the AMD Phenom 2 quads. Ive heard they are very good.

The AM3 quads add another 100 bucks to the build and since I'm starting from scratch from PSU to RAM - to Case - I'd rather not keep driving up the price of my first build I don't have to. If I'm going to do that - i7 would be in the mix - and I'd really prefer to push that expenditure into the future when it's cheaper and I have more disposable money available. I haven't ruled it out - but would prefer not to go there if I don't have to.

I'm still going to be purchasing an O/S when windows 7 RC expires - and will be adding some other things like a monitor or 2 - and upgrade keyboard over the next year too.

 

[bomberboysk]

Actually... if you go ddr3 its almost useless if you wanna "carry over" to i7 as amd motherbaords dont support tri channel yet, what you could do though is just get a tri-channel kit and install two of the sticks, then leave the other stick safely in its packaging until you upgrade to i7 or whatever. But as far as $300 for mobo+cpu, this would be good:

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378

CPU(Quad is only $30 more than a tricore):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103650

For memory, if you wanna be able to carry over to i7 go for a tri channel kit and only use 2 sticks in your build, such as:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247

 

[lovely?]

Actually... if you go ddr3 its almost useless if you wanna "carry over" to i7 as amd motherbaords dont support tri channel yet, what you could do though is just get a tri-channel kit and install two of the sticks, then leave the other stick safely in its packaging until you upgrade to i7 or whatever. But as far as $300 for mobo+cpu, this would be good:

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378

CPU(Quad is only $30 more than a tricore):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103650

For memory, if you wanna be able to carry over to i7 go for a tri channel kit and only use 2 sticks in your build, such as:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247

thats actually a really good idea!

you could buy a 6gb set of 2gb sticks, run 4gb of it in your current system, then stick the extra 2gb stick in your i7 rig for tri-channel. then again, instead of taking out the third stick to run dual channel, maybe you should use all 3 in the amd rig.

 

[Jamin43]

For memory, if you wanna be able to carry over to i7 go for a tri channel kit and only use 2 sticks in your build, such as:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231247

I had thought about that.

Am I misguided here - but I thought I could purchase dual channel - and when I wanted triple channel - just by the same RAM - as a single - and plug it in - to get triple channel performance.

i.e.

WHOOPS - didn't notice they didn't sell any DDR3 as a single DIMM

Thanks for the heads up - looks like a part of my " cost reduction plan " wasn't a cost saver after all.

Now I have to rethink my approach to this build. I'm also willing to look at some socket 775 quad core duos that are in the $150 range if they make sense too. I'll be reading alot of reviews before I make my decision - but any MOBO / CPU combos was including an onboard video card - otherwise it adds another 50 bucks to my PC build for a low end video card.

 

[Jamin43]

thats actually a really good idea!

you could buy a 6gb set of 2gb sticks, run 4gb of it in your current system, then stick the extra 2gb stick in your i7 rig for tri-channel. then again, instead of taking out the third stick to run dual channel, maybe you should use all 3 in the amd rig.

Definitely will consider that.:good:

 

[bomberboysk]

I had thought about that.

Am I misguided here - but I thought I could purchase dual channel - and when I wanted triple channel - just by the same RAM - as a single - and plug it in - to get triple channel performance.

i.e.

WHOOPS - didn't notice they didn't sell any DDR3 as a single DIMM

Thanks for the heads up - looks like a part of my " cost reduction plan " wasn't a cost saver after all.

Now I have to rethink my approach to this build. I'm also willing to look at some socket 775 quad core duos that are in the $150 range if they make sense too. I'll be reading alot of reviews before I make my decision - but any MOBO / CPU combos was including an onboard video card - otherwise it adds another 50 bucks to my PC build for a low end video card.

Well, most of the dual channel memory out there is the stuff that has the higher voltage, you want memory with 1.65 voltage(legacy dual channel ddr3 is 1.8-1.9v) if you are going to run it with i7, and the price difference isnt that far off between a dual channel and triple channel kit

 

[Jamin43]

Well, most of the dual channel memory out there is the stuff that has the higher voltage, you want memory with 1.65 voltage(legacy dual channel ddr3 is 1.8-1.9v) if you are going to run it with i7, and the price difference isnt that far off between a dual channel and triple channel kit

Would you suggest using DDR3 set as dual channel ( 2GB x 2 ) + 1 ( 2 GB )on a new build?

OR

Just put the 3rd channel in a drawer - and run 2 of 3 channels in a dual channel MOBO?

 

[Bodaggit23]

(legacy dual channel ddr3 is 1.8-1.9v) if you are going to run it with i7

Could you explain this please?

 

[Jamin43]

One other thing

I'd like to hear some AMD owners ring in - if an AMD processor will be able to handle the functions I referred to in the OP - as I multi-task. As I keep sifting through processors at Newegg - I keep ending up at the AMD tri-coreb/c of my price limitation - keeping me out of the quad core with a decent clock speed.

I also am interested in dipping my toe in the water re: overclocking - but that's secondary. The AMD 720 will allow me to do that.

I don't want to get all excited about purchasing a Phenom II AMD processor - only to get it home and built as my new PC - and learn that AMD's simply aren't good at muti-task processing.

Here are some benchmarks that I don't fully understand how to interpret - or know if they are relevant to my question?

Business Winstone

Not bad at all.. the Phenom II X3 720 BE beats the Core 2 Duo E8400 by 6.9% for Business Winstone!

Content Creation

The Core 2 Duo E8400 beats the Phenom II X3 720 BE for Content Creation by 8.5%.

Thanks in advance

 

[bomberboysk]

Would you suggest using DDR3 set as dual channel ( 2GB x 2 ) + 1 ( 2 GB )on a new build?

OR

Just put the 3rd channel in a drawer - and run 2 of 3 channels in a dual channel MOBO?

Just put the 3rd stick in a drawer(in original packaging of course, be sure to test it though before you store it), if you run 3 sticks in a dual channel motherboard, you arent running 4 matching pairs and it will default to single channel mode.

Could you explain this please?

Sure, on the i7;s the memory controller is integrated into the cpu, and stock memory voltages above 1.66v can damage the cpu. Thats why using legacy(1.8/1.9/2.0v) ddr3 is not recommended, and the current tri channel ddr3 offerings(1.55,1.6,1.65v) are recommended. Earlier ddr3 boards were socket 775 which have the memory controller on the northbridge, and can tolerate those voltages.

One other thing

I'd like to hear some AMD owners ring in - if an AMD processor will be able to handle the functions I referred to in the OP - as I multi-task. As I keep sifting through processors at Newegg - I keep ending up at the AMD tri-coreb/c of my price limitation - keeping me out of the quad core with a decent clock speed.

I also am interested in dipping my toe in the water re: overclocking - but that's secondary. The AMD 720 will allow me to do that.

I don't want to get all excited about purchasing a Phenom II AMD processor - only to get it home and built as my new PC - and learn that AMD's simply aren't good at muti-task processing.

Here are some benchmarks that I don't fully understand how to interpret - or know if they are relevant to my question?

Business Winstone

Not bad at all.. the Phenom II X3 720 BE beats the Core 2 Duo E8400 by 6.9% for Business Winstone!

Content Creation

The Core 2 Duo E8400 beats the Phenom II X3 720 BE for Content Creation by 8.5%.

Thanks in advance

Those are places where the intel cpu's exceed somewhat. Also, For the $30 go for a quad, as the 810 might have lower clock speeds stock but they overclock like a madman, can hit pretty decent speeds with em

These are the Phenom II X4's, but should give some idea as far as core for core performance(higher is better here):

 

[2048Megabytes]

Processor clock speed isn't everything. The Phenom II 810 Quad-Core processor is only $31 more in price than the Phenom II 720 Tri-Core and obviously gives you an additional processor over the the Phenom II 720. The Phenom II 810 is also only 200 megahertz slower in clock speed.

I would go with the Phenom II 810 Quad-Core processor for $170 as it has more processing power.

The least expensive Core 2 Quad processor is Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 for $165. From what I hear the heatsinks are also quite poor quality with Intel so you want to buy a third party heat sink raising the price about another $20 ($185 total). I don't know what the exact numbers are comparing the Core 2 Quad 8200 with the Phenom II 810, but as you seem to be concerned with cost, the Phenom II 810 processor is lower.

 

[Jamin43]

Processor clock speed isn't everything. The Phenom II 810 Quad-Core processor is only $31 more in price than the Phenom II 720 Tri-Core and obviously gives you an additional processor over the the Phenom II 720. The Phenom II 810 is also only 200 megahertz slower in clock speed.

I would go with the Phenom II 810 Quad-Core processor for $170 as it has more processing power.

The least expensive Core 2 Quad processor is Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 for $165. From what I hear the heatsinks are also quite poor quality with Intel so you want to buy a third party heat sink raising the price about another $20 ($185 total). I don't know what the exact numbers are comparing the Core 2 Quad 8200 with the Phenom II 810, but as you seem to be concerned with cost, the Phenom II 810 processor is lower.

I'm reading the reviews of the tri-core AMD x3 II 720 - and am reading through the Core 2 duo 8400 reviews as I type this. I'm considering that as an alternative as well. And yes - the heatsink is mentioned in alot of reviews - but is getting high marks for OC and read a couple reviews about good multitasker.

Yes I am interested in cost - but also value. If there' san argument of significance for $10 or $20 bucks - I'll consider all options - if it's going to bump me up $150-$300 dollars for the build - it's out of the question.

The Quadcore 810 you mention - the biggest difference I see is the L3 cache is 4 gb instead of 6 in the other Phenom II processors. It's also listed at 95 Watts - while the rest of the AMD quad core family is 125W.

I just want to get the most bang for the buck - to handle my current and future needs for the next 2-3 years minimum if I'm spending a few $5-600 dollars for a PC when I end up buying Windows 7 after it's released for sale.

 

[StrangleHold]

The X3 720 overclocks better than the X4 810 plus has a unlocked X, has the whole 6mbs. of L3 and beats the 810 in about 95% of benchmarks running stock not even counting overclocking. And dont buy a set of triple channel memory. You will have a odd ball stick left and if you ever did upgrade to four in dual channel you probable could not find one later that matched.

If you just really really want a AM3 X4 and trying to save money, just wait alittle and the X4 925 will be released, has the whole 6mbs of L3 and runs stock at 2.8ghz. like the X3 720

 

[2048Megabytes]

I wouldn't even bother looking at the Core 2 Duo 8400. The Q8200 processor easily beats the E8400 in processing power and it's lower in price. Another processor you might want to look at is the Intel Core 2 Quad Q8400 for $185.

Does anyone know how the Phenom II 810 stacks up against the Core 2 Quad Q8400 and the Q8200 processors?

Also be warned that Windows 7 may have issues until Microsoft releases Service Pack 1 for it.

 

[Jamin43]

If you just really really want a AM3 X4 and trying to save money, just wait alittle and the X4 925 will be released, has the whole 6mbs of L3 and runs stock at 2.8ghz. like the X3 720

Any idea what kindof time frame they're looking to release that one / any idea of price targets. As it stands - I was planning on building within the next month or 2. The 955 looks like a sweet processor - but outside my budget.

810 does look interesting - but I wanted to toy around with O.C. - since I've not been able to try that with my DELL's. That was kindof a selling point to purchasing a Build it yourselfer.

It looks like I can still O.C. the 810 via MOBO - but not as easily for a newbie overclocker like myself.

 

[StrangleHold]

Any idea what kindof time frame they're looking to release that one / any idea of price targets.

I've heard they are trying to get rid of as many Phenom I/II AM2+ they can right now and move to AM3 only. At first only releasing the AM3 925 to OEMs first. A few more months they are going to stop shipping the 920 and 940.

 

[Jamin43]

I've heard they are trying to get rid of as many Phenom I/II AM2+ they can right now and move to AM3 only. At first only releasing the AM3 925 to OEMs first. A few more months they are going to stop shipping the 920 and 940.

Yeah - I just saw a few OEM's are listing them in their computer specs.

Sounds like they're in production and just clearing out the AM2+ inventory. So I'm going to guess the new 925 will be priced a tad bit higher than the 810 -

Either that - or the whole line of AM3 Phenom II CPU's will drop when the the PHenom II AM2+ cpu's are cleared from inventory to better compete with intel processors in terms of pricing.

I can wait it out - although I am getting a bit antsy here - since I already purchased my first PC part this weekend ( Corsair 620 PSU )

 

[StrangleHold]

I would say it would be priced near the 920 what ever that might be, they jump up or down 20 bucks in price every two weeks.