Anyone have any experience with Phase Change?

Jet

Jet

VIP Member
Since I'm a mechanical engineer at Tech, I'm thinking of making it a project in the next 4 years to make a phase change cooler--I've been scouring the internet for information, but wanted to ask you guys--have you guys had any experience with phase change?
 
Phase Change or Peltier is a Refrigeration system designed to cool your cpu. It passes refrigerant through copper pipes, compressor, evaporator, and condensor. It is just like any refrigeration unit just alot smaller.

Edit: No experience with phase change in computers but, took an 2yr HVAC class at Tech Center.

My opinion = Too expensive right now

Best bet is to build your own. Use parts from a mini fridge

Also - Technically it is illegal for anyone to work on refrigerant components w/o being certified so take this into consideration
 
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temp

Are you talking about something similar to a heat pipe cooler, but with freon? I think that its basically what heat pipe cooling units use, not exactly freon but similar.

Why are you wanting to do this? What kind of computer will be so powerful that you need a refrigerator-like setup?

And its not illegal to work on the systems, you just cant get certain types of refrigerant without a license. Its especially not going to be illegal if your just making it for yourself. I used to build and work with recreational vehicle A/C systems. But you do have to abide by the law when you work on them. For instance, you have to reclaim the freon from the system before you take the system apart.

I doubt it will be a small setup, and I highly doubt it would fit in a laptop. You could do it with a desktop, but aside from:
* the extra weight
* the condensation on the lines
* the power needed for the compressor
* the tooling needed to make the mounting hardware for the CPU heatsink
* the chance of over-cooling/under-cooling
* the space for a condenser
* also buying, installing and then later capturing the "spent" refrigerant

....sure, it seems feasible.

Seems like a lot of hurdles to jump through. But if you can make it work, it would be sweeeeeeeet!
 
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gamblingman said:
Are you talking about something similar to a heat pipe cooler, but with freon? I think that its basically what heat pipe cooling units use, not exactly freon but similar.

Why are you wanting to do this? What kind of computer will be so powerful that you need a refrigerator-like setup?

And its not illegal to work on the systems, you just cant get certain types of refrigerant without a license. Its especially not going to be illegal if your just making it for yourself. I used to build and work with recreational vehicle A/C systems. But you do have to abide by the law when you work on them. For instance, you have to reclaim the freon from the system before you take the system apart.

I doubt it will be a small setup, and I highly doubt it would fit in a laptop. You could do it with a desktop, but aside from:
* the extra weight
* the condensation on the lines
* the power needed for the compressor
* the tooling needed to make the mounting hardware for the CPU heatsink
* the chance of over-cooling/under-cooling
* the space for an evaporator
* also buying, installing and then later capturing the "spent" refrigerant

....sure, it seems feasible.

Seems like a lot of hurdles to jump through. But if you can make it work, it would be sweeeeeeeet!
Click to expand...

Yep--this is what I'm thinking of. It'll probably be a work in progress and I probably won't start an actual build for quite some time, but since I'm going to be learning the science behind it, I thought it would be fun to build it myself!
 
its not illegal to buy, they just wont let you if you dont have a license for it, but it is ILLEGAL to release freon into the air
 
ganzey said:
its not illegal to buy, they just wont let you if you dont have a license for it, but it is ILLEGAL to release freon into the air
Click to expand...

No duh its illegal to release it into the air.

I am telling you guys it's illegal to work on things such as refrigerators only when the system is charged (got freon in it). If the system is empty then it's completely legal to work on.
 
freon

I don't know what you guys are talking about. Its perfectly legal to buy SOME types of freon, 134a can be bought by anyone! Its the older stuff like R-12 (the good stuff!) that you need a license to buy.

And not being able to work on the system, where are you guys getting that info!? I know plenty of people that work on their a/c system, especially on their cars.

Just check on the legality of the matter in your local area when you go to do it, if your really that worried about it. I wouldn't be.
 
I didnt say it was illegal to buy freon! As for working on a/c systems there is a certain boundary of the size of the system that you can legally work on.
 
G25r8cer said:
I didnt say it was illegal to buy freon! As for working on a/c systems there is a certain boundary of the size of the system that you can legally work on.
Click to expand...

sorry to say but that's just not true. I work on HVAC stuff all the time and I don't have a license... I work on AC systems all the time on cars and I don't have a license. You might want to double check your facts.
 
^^ Like I said there are size limitations. I didnt say that you couldnt work on any a/c systems. A/C systems in cars/trucks are tiny and low pressure systems therefor its not harmful to work on. TRust me guys I know what im talking about.

Legal: Car a/c, small fridge, dehumidifier

Illegal: Walkin freezer, home a/c, industrial
 
phase change just isn't worth it for 24/7 use, if you build a decent unit that can actually hold a decent load(300 watts) at around -30*C(you would have to have a decent evaporator, something along the lines of an nf11fx, and probably charged with r507a) plus, the compressor is going to be burning up electricity since they work pretty much all the time, since the load is constant
 
Sorry Jet, we seem to have an abundance of members with legal backgrounds but no-one to help you with the task :D

Best of luck with the project, it sounds like fun even if it's not practical. :)
 
TFT said:
Sorry Jet, we seem to have an abundance of members with legal backgrounds but no-one to help you with the task :D

Best of luck with the project, it sounds like fun even if it's not practical. :)
Click to expand...

Hey--it's practical for #1: short term extreme oveclocking, #2 learning about how CPUs respond to sub-zero temperatures, and #3, 24/7 folding@home if I don't have to pay for my power usage :D
 
since you don't have to pay for the power usage, you should go for it, but be advised they can get to be a bit loud
 
gamblingman said:
Are you talking about something similar to a heat pipe cooler, but with freon? I think that its basically what heat pipe cooling units use, not exactly freon but similar.

Why are you wanting to do this? What kind of computer will be so powerful that you need a refrigerator-like setup?

And its not illegal to work on the systems, you just cant get certain types of refrigerant without a license. Its especially not going to be illegal if your just making it for yourself. I used to build and work with recreational vehicle A/C systems. But you do have to abide by the law when you work on them. For instance, you have to reclaim the freon from the system before you take the system apart.

I doubt it will be a small setup, and I highly doubt it would fit in a laptop. You could do it with a desktop, but aside from:
* the extra weight
* the condensation on the lines
* the power needed for the compressor
* the tooling needed to make the mounting hardware for the CPU heatsink
* the chance of over-cooling/under-cooling
* the space for a condenser
* also buying, installing and then later capturing the "spent" refrigerant

....sure, it seems feasible.

Seems like a lot of hurdles to jump through. But if you can make it work, it would be sweeeeeeeet!
Click to expand...

people buy and sell weed dont get caught does that make it LEGAL for them??

IT IS however illegal to buy sell refrigerant WITHOUT a lisence.

FUN fact the little 1 Lb. cans of r-134a refrigerant you can buy at the auto parts store are ILLEGAL, y non of the pricks at the EPA dont do something about it is beyond me but thats the epa for a goin after rice'd honda's instead of something that is slowly eating the ozone.
anyway im off my soap box resigning from my office
 
linksys said:
FUN fact the little 1 Lb. cans of r-134a refrigerant you can buy at the auto parts store are ILLEGAL, y non of the pricks at the EPA dont do something about it is beyond me but thats the epa for a goin after rice'd honda's instead of something that is slowly eating the ozone.
anyway im off my soap box resigning from my office
Click to expand...

The weird and crazy thing is you are correct
 
ganzey said:
its not illegal to buy, they just wont let you if you dont have a license for it, but it is ILLEGAL to release freon into the air
Click to expand...

OK???

im driving a 18 wheeler i dont have a CDL (commercial drivers lisence) i get pulled over and arrested because i didnt have a cdl or DL so its not ILLEGAL to drive without a lic.??? your stating like a double negitive.

more example

a handy man is rewiring a house does not get permits is not licensed
said houses wiring electrocutes owner burns and dies and said handy man is responcible for killing said man because of not being licensed or illegally doing this work

catch my drift??
 
ganzey said:
its not illegal to buy, they just wont let you if you dont have a license for it, but it is ILLEGAL to release freon into the air
Click to expand...

You do not need a license to buy refrigerant!! You need a license to buy and sell (redistribute).
 
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