Anyone here who can beat Dell?

[Raster]

I'm getting a new system from Dell for $800...

I mostly use the computer for graphic design, a little of watching movies, a little of listening to music, and I may tap into multimedia work later.

Here is what I custom built with Dell, and I'm happy with the setup with the exception of the graphics card(I don't know if it's good enough for graphic design and/or editing movies maybe, and is AGP the way to go?) and the lack of upgradeability.

EDIT: Took out link because it didn't work. Specs are in the third post.

Can anyone build me one of same quality or better for less price?

 

[Praetor]

That site doesnt list a system...says something about WindowsXP

 

[Raster]

Dell Dimension 3000 Series Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology (3GHz, 800 FSB) WL308H [221-6503] 1

Operating System Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition WHXP [412-0721][412-0688][463-2282][420-4834][420-4927][420-5101] 11

Memory 512MB Dual Channel DDR SDRAM at 400MHz 512M4 [311-4259] 3

Keyboard and Mouse Bundles Dell Quietkey Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse QKOM [310-1582][310-4037] 4

Monitors FREE UPGRADE! 15 in (15.0 in viewable) E153FP Analog Flat Panel E153FPP [463-5770] 5

Video Card Integrated Intel® Extreme Graphics 2 IV [320-2870] 6

Hard Drive 80GB Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive 80 [340-3274] 8

Floppy Drives and Additional Storage Devices No Floppy Drive Included NFD [340-8688] 10

Mouse Mouse included with Keyboard purchase NONE [310-5678] 12

Network Interface Integrated 10/100 Ethernet IN [430-0412] 13

Modem 56K PCI Data/Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] 14

Document Management Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 6.0 AAREAD [412-0705] 15

CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 48x CD-RW / DVD-ROM Combo Drive 48COMBO [313-2227][420-5079] 16

Sound Card Sound Blaster® Live! 24-bit ADVANCED HD™ Audio SB1024 [313-1854][313-2431] 17

Speakers Dell AS500 PA 14W Flat Panel Stereo Speakers for E153,E173,E193 Flat Panels AS500PA [313-2201] 18

Productivity Software WordPerfect®, Powerful Word Processing CORELM [412-0701] 22

Security Software No Security Subscription NS2 [412-0754] 25

Digital Music Dell Jukebox - easy-to-use music player and CD burning software MMBASE [412-0741] 27

Digital Photography Paint Shop™ Pro® Studio trial, Photo Album™ Starter Edition DPS [412-0744] 28

Limited Warranty, Services and Support Options 1Yr Ltd Warranty, 1Yr At-Home Service, and 1Yr Technical Support S111OS [950-9797][950-3337][412-0360][902-9210][960-2800] 29

Internet Access Services 6 Months of America Online Membership Included AOLDHS [412-0585][412-0625][420-3224][412-0687] 37

Miscellaneous Award Winning Service and Support D30PSAP [463-5390] 82

Financial Software QuickBooks® Simple Start Special Edition (limited to 50 contacts) QBSSP [420-5139] 83

Dell Media Experience Dell Media Experience™ DMX [412-0660] 115

ACCESSORIES

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Belkin SurgeMaster Gold - 10 Outlet with Coax (for Broadband) Qty 1

 

[Praetor]

I cant beat the dell price with a system that i would be _proud_ to own or build but i can certainly beat it (if it was an issue of life or death).... this is a good platform to start from ...

Athlon 64 3000+ (S939) RETAIL BOX
MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer
Chenming 601
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC
Total $650USD

With a lot of room for trimmage and additions. Question: what the purpose of this machine?

 

[Raster]

I cant beat the dell price with a system that i would be _proud_ to own or build but i can certainly beat it (if it was an issue of life or death).... this is a good platform to start from ...

Athlon 64 3000+ (S939) RETAIL BOX
MSI K8N Neo 2 Platinum
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer
Chenming 601
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC
Total $650USD

With a lot of room for trimmage and additions. Question: what the purpose of this machine?

Thanks.

I don't really do gaming or need a theatre system on my computer.

I just need to do graphics, watch a little movie and listen to music once in a while, and do basic computing.

But my number one concern is doing graphic design and maybe animation.

 

[Raster]

Could you also tell me the bus speed of the chipset you recommended? Is it same as the cpu of 2.0 ghz? Because it says it's built into the chip... I dunno. I'm a noob.

 

[Praetor]

But my number one concern is doing graphic design and maybe animation.

Oh ok, in that case my suggestion for the Athlon64 system was in err..... just checking: the calibre of work that you are doing doesnt involve fancy workstation cards right? (since you're looking at onboard video)

Could you also tell me the bus speed of the chipset you recommended?

For an Intel system look for the number "800", for an AMD system look for the numbers "1600" or "2000" .... and no they are not really comparable.

 

[Praetor]

Beating Dell is quite the challenge (especially when i double the RAM, put in a solid mobo and DVDRW drive) .... another stepping stone:

Intel P4-530 3.0GHz LGA775 195
ASUS P5GD1-VM Intel 915G w/ 8-Ch Audio, Video, PCI-E 95
KingMax 512MB PC-4300 DDR II 533MHz 240-pin 85
KingMax 512MB PC-4300 DDR II 533MHz 240-pin 85
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB cache 85
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer 55
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC 50
Cheapo Case 20
Total $670USD


Intel P4-530 3.0GHz LGA775 195
Gigabyte GA-8IP775-G 70
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM 70
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM 70
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB cache 85
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer 55
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC 50
Cheapo Case 20
Total $615USD

 

[Raster]

Oh ok, in that case my suggestion for the Athlon64 system was in err..... just checking: the calibre of work that you are doing doesnt involve fancy workstation cards right? (since you're looking at onboard video)


For an Intel system look for the number "800", for an AMD system look for the numbers "1600" or "2000" .... and no they are not really comparable.

Hmm... So the bus speed is determined by the chip instead of the motherboard? I thought 800 and 1600 stood for the mhz...

And I don't know what you mean by fancy worstation cards. I just need as much memory as possible(I think? Does less memory mean less speed always or only when the max memory capacity is reached?) and enough graphics to clearly see graphics and good refresh rate, etc... I think...

 

[Raster]

Beating Dell is quite the challenge (especially when i double the RAM, put in a solid mobo and DVDRW drive) .... another stepping stone:

Intel P4-530 3.0GHz LGA775 195
ASUS P5GD1-VM Intel 915G w/ 8-Ch Audio, Video, PCI-E 95
KingMax 512MB PC-4300 DDR II 533MHz 240-pin 85
KingMax 512MB PC-4300 DDR II 533MHz 240-pin 85
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB cache 85
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer 55
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC 50
Cheapo Case 20
Total $670USD


Intel P4-530 3.0GHz LGA775 195
Gigabyte GA-8IP775-G 70
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM 70
KingMax 512MB PC-3200 DDR400 SDRAM 70
Western Digital 160GB w/ 8MB cache 85
NEC ND-3520 16x DVD+/-RW 4X Dual Layer 55
Thermaltake Silent PurePower 420W Active PFC 50
Cheapo Case 20
Total $615USD

You're the man.

Of course those prices are without the monitor and accessories, but I guess you could get better parts for less prices on those too.

Where are those quoted prices from?

And I hope if I build the system, I don't mess it up. Last time I tried to install a CD burner in my current computer (used it for 10years, had a good run, on Windows 98, was a good system back then, still gets the job done, but I need more power), I blew out the power supply box wires. Now it only turns on when one of the exposed wire is touching a metal.

 

[Praetor]

Hmm... So the bus speed is determined by the chip instead of the motherboard? I thought 800 and 1600 stood for the mhz...

The bus speed is determined by a combination of the chip and the motherboard. The reason I didnt say 800Mhz or 1600Mhz or whatever is because thats actually not true (more on that in a sec). The reason I said "for intel...." and "for amd..." is because I dont expect you to be considering older Intel systems (which run "400" and "533") or older AMD (which run "333" and "400" ) systems.

Why the " "?
- Common marketing gimmick (as Dell has done here) is to "make a tactical mistake" and thus improve the marketing power of a given product: for Intel machines (which should be what you're considering given the task fo the machine), there are three paramaters: FSB (front side bust) seed, BUS speed and CPU clock speed. A fourth value called the multiplier also plays a role. For intel:
-BUS = FSB x 4
- CPU Clock Speed = FSB x Multiplier
In the case of the processor you've got originally selected:
- BUS = 200 x 4 = 800 (Dell has purposefully and incorrectly labeled this as FSB = 800 which would result in a stupidly fast BUS speed)
- CPU Clock Speed = 200 x 15.0 = 3000Mhz = 3GHz
For AMD its slightly different but the principle is the same.

And I don't know what you mean by fancy worstation cards.

In that case then dont worry about it

I just need as much memory as possible(I think? Does less memory mean less speed always or only when the max memory capacity is reached?) and enough graphics to clearly see graphics and good refresh rate, etc... I think...

In that case, onboard (aka integrated, builtin) graphics are sufficient ... no need for anything fancy

 

[red onion]

I blew out the power supply box wires. Now it only turns on when one of the exposed wire is touching a metal.

Am I the only one that finds this unsafe?

 

[Praetor]

Of course those prices are without the monitor and accessories, but I guess you could get better parts for less prices on those too.

Yes thats why I stopped at ~600-700 ... the rest is somewhat independent and im sure you can get on your own ... since you dont intend to do any gaming on the machine dont get suckered into buying a LCD screen (if you intend to go that route) with a low refresh ... yes, lower is better but that only matters if you're playing games

Where are those quoted prices from?

From a quick query of local stores (im in canada) and im assuming conversion rate 1.2 (0.83333) which, although I havnt checked, shouldnt be too far off.

And I hope if I build the system, I don't mess it up. Last time I tried to install a CD burner in my current computer (used it for 10years, had a good run, on Windows 98, was a good system back then, still gets the job done, but I need more power), I blew out the power supply box wires

.
Ouchie

Am I the only one that finds this unsafe?

Nope

 

[Raster]

Once again, thanks for all your help... This is clearing up alot of things.

Would you say that 200mhz for bus speed is relatively high? And also, is it normal for cpu speed to be 15 times more than the bus speed?

 

[Praetor]

Would you say that 200mhz for bus speed is relatively high? And also, is it normal for cpu speed to be 15 times more than the bus speed?

200 is standard. Intel has a 266Mhz version but those will entail costs > $1000 just for the CPU and motherboard (yes some people are willing to pay the premium). As for the multiplier, yes thats normal (actually its prolly better off to say "its not abnormal" since you dont really have a say with the multiplier its just "kinda there and you deal with it")

 

[Raster]

Cheers. I'll check out the recommendations you gave me. I'll have to balance the upgradability and customization of your specs versus Dell's bells and whistles(flat screen display + speakers made for flat screen displays. And it looks cool. Yeah, I'm so shallow. Too bad my printer/scanner/camera is white.) and my tendency to blow things up.

 

[Praetor]

I'll have to balance the upgradability and customization of your specs versus Dell's bells and whistles(flat screen display + speakers made for flat screen displays.

Yeah, beating the box is easy ... beating the rest (CRT, software, accessories) is a bit more difficult Personally id think it be worth it for the upgradability and the its-not-a-dell-so-i-can-actually-do-something-in-my-BIOS factor

 

[Raster]

Yeah, beating the box is easy ... beating the rest (CRT, software, accessories) is a bit more difficult Personally id think it be worth it for the upgradability and the its-not-a-dell-so-i-can-actually-do-something-in-my-BIOS factor

I wouldn't know what to do in the BIOS.

So I wouldn't be able to configure CPU clock speeds and such in Dell BIOS, right?

This is kind of related to the Is it True? thread, but I see that my Dell system comes with PCI slots only. Does AGP really make a difference as far as graphic card performance? And could I use both the integrated graphcs card that is in there now and another graphics card at the same time to boost performance? I'm guessing not.

And the PSU only goes up to 250 watts... What does this mean as far as upgrades go?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Raster]

I may pay almost $200 dollars more for these extra features... Good or bad?


Dell Dimension 4700 Series Pentium® 4 Processor 530 with HT Technology (3.00GHz, 800 FSB) CP308H [221-5230] 1 instead of 2.8

Monitor FREE UPGRADE! 17 in E173FP Analog Flat Panel E173FPB [463-5112] 5 instead of 15 inches

Video Cards 128MB PCI Express™ x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon™ X300 SE X300SE [320-3873] 6 instead of integrated...

Modem 56K PCI Data Fax Modem DFAX [313-2279] 14 can't get rid of this...

CD or DVD Drive Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability 16DVDRW [313-2995][420-5079] 16 instead of r/w only

Digital Audio Bundles Digital Music - 30 Watt Stereo Spks w/Subwoofer, Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit DIGMUS [313-3256][313-3257][412-0741][463-7300][313-6010] 140

305Watts PSU instead of 250W

keyboard with volume and multimedia control...


And how does the new graphics card compare to AGP cards?

 

[kof2000]

pci express slot is faster than agp.