Bizarre Vista Install Problems

Z

zarkpros

New Member
I will attempt to be as concise as possible, despite the evolving nature of this problem and my numerous varied efforts at solving it.

Starting from the beginning:

I have a Dell XPS Desktop purchased in the summer of 2005. Its stats:

-Windows XP Media Center Edition, SP2
-Pentium 4, 3.4GHz
-1 GB RAM
-250GB SATA Western Digital HD

So I want to install Vista because I can get it for free from my school. But I don't want to get rid of XP, since I've heard shaky things about Vista, and XP runs fine (except for the 15-minute startup time). To pursue this end, I purchased a new hard drive (Western Digital SATA 250GB; basically the same type as the original HD, with a faster transfer rate). The idea is that I'll set up a dual boot system with Vista on the new HD, while maintaining the old XP installation on the old HD.

The problem first appeared when I attempted to install Vista on the new hard drive. Installing by either booting from the Vista DVD and starting the installation from within XP produced the same unfortunate result: the installation would finish "copying files" and move on to "expanding files". Once in the "expanding files" process, it would proceed to 37% completion and freeze. After 20-30 minutes frozen there, an error message would appear with the code 0x80070003, claiming that the required file could not be located. The only thing to do at that point was to restart. After restarting, a BIOS error message would appear, claiming that the new HD was no longer detected. It would continue not to be detected until such time as the computer's power was physically turned off. However, after turning the computer off and back on, the drive would appear again as if nothing had happened.

I decided that the problem had to be with the new HD (overheating, I guessed), so I arranged for a replacement drive on Western Digital's website. The new one came and produced the exact same problem. I talked on the phone with Western Digital for some time, and they suggested the new SATA cable I had bought for the new drive might be defective. So I bought a new cable, then another, then I decided to use the SATA cable that used to be attached to the old HD, knowing that it has worked perfectly for almost two years. (Incidentally, the new cables work perfectly with the old HD). The new cable did at first seem to have a positive effect: the Vista installation completed! Hurray! I started using Vista, and it worked just perfectly.....for about 2 hours. After that much time (varying from 30 minutes to fully 8 hours at one point), the following happens: everything freezes (except cursor movement, which still works) for 15 seconds-2 minutes, then a blue screen appears (for about 5 seconds, with no text or error messages), then the computer restarts and the BIOS recognition problem returns.

So, I got the second new HD replaced by Western Digital. They sent me a new drive of a slightly better model (320 GB instead of 250), since they were totally baffled by the problem. The new HD has not changed the problem.

Other things I have tried:

-plugging the new HD into all of the four SATA ports on the motherboard (including the known good one that the old HD was plugged into)

-using the new SATA-style power (2 different power cables) and an old legacy four-prong power cable

-upgrading the BIOS to the most recent version supplied by Dell (A4, i think)

-rearranging the physical location of the drive within the desktop case (fearing that overheating was the problem)

-installing the driver for my Intel SATA controller during the Vista installation process

-burning a new install DVD from the known good ISO file supplied by my college

Any advice anyone might have on what to do would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks, and sorry that was so long!
 
try completely unplugging the xp drive. And just running Vista on the Sata drive for a couple of hours see if it happens again.
 
Tried it.

Yeah, tried that. (when I plugged the new HD into the old HD's SATA port, the old HD wouldn't function anyway. so when i did that, i ended up unplugging the old HD, and using exclusively the new HD.) Should've had that in the list of things I tried, sorry. As I recall, when I did that, it lasted a bit longer than usual (overnight) before crashing. But it ended up crashing the same way it usually does.
 
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mobo?

What's mobo?

Also: is PC Check a freeware program? I found something called PC Check but it doesn't seem all that helpful. Do you have a link?
 
pfff good question i usually run it off a boot system... got it a long time ago dont remember where...
but it's not freeware... really hard to come by sorry forgot about that...
ehhh try finding some other mobo checking tool maybe?
i'm out of options right now
 
Truly baffling, isn't it? Because why would the motherboard not work with a brand new HD? Do you think Dell might have some kind of devious protection on there to keep you from upgrading with stuff not purchased from them? I can't believe that that would fly. Just bizarre.
 
15 minute boot up xp??..wow..i got only 1-2 mins..must be dell crap they install... by a chance u try formatting drive with vista setup ?
 
One question was partially asked by shawn selig29 on what was used when going to partition and format the new drive? A "mobo" is the typical expression for "mother board" or main system board. The online free pc check is usually a marketing gimic and not reliable. If the board used by Dell there has two ide channels and not one like some boards for strictly sata use along with optical drives your settings may be incorrect. The bios may see the second drive as an array and not a sata master #2. Refer to the Dell support site's Faq section on adding drives if you find nothing in their version of a user manual.
 
shawn_selig29 said:
15 minute boot up xp??..wow..i got only 1-2 mins..must be dell crap they install... by a chance u try formatting drive with vista setup ?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have been formatting with Vista's install, because if I try to format in XP it does not work after I've partially installed Vista. I assume this problem has to do with XP being too far behind to handle Vista. I have zero-written the drive in addition to formatting it within Vista, to no avail.
 
PC eye said:
One question was partially asked by shawn selig29 on what was used when going to partition and format the new drive? A "mobo" is the typical expression for "mother board" or main system board. The online free pc check is usually a marketing gimic and not reliable. If the board used by Dell there has two ide channels and not one like some boards for strictly sata use along with optical drives your settings may be incorrect. The bios may see the second drive as an array and not a sata master #2. Refer to the Dell support site's Faq section on adding drives if you find nothing in their version of a user manual.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain that the BIOS recognizes the HD properly (except when it's not recognizing the HD at all). The message it gives in the setup is "Drive ID: WDC (serial number here) 320 GB / BIOS: This drive is controlled by the system BIOS / Link Speed: 3.0Gbs"

(My old drive has the same message, only 1.5 Gbs and 250 GB.)

I don't know what you mean by two IDE channels, and I don't see anything in the BIOS or BIOS literature about that. The SATA controller settings are set to RAID Autodetect/AHCI, and the description specifies that the BIOS will employ RAID if it detects "signed drives" and AHCI otherwise. I did try to change the option to RAID Autodetect/ATA, but that gave me a warning saying I might not be able to boot, so I decided against it. I think I read that Vista won't work with anything less than AHCI anyway.
 
The drive if good along with a good cable should be seen on the initial post screen when all drives see the quick tests then. If you are not seeing listed there or not every time you would then have to suspect either a flaky sata cable or something like loss of bios information. The RAID type setting is mainly for ide type drives running as a pair to see one partition spread over two HDs. Ide drives are those that use the flat and wise ribbon type cable while sata drives use the narrower type.

The page seen at the link here show how an ide looks as well as how to set that type of drive's jumper to the cable select position so it won't matter which of the two connectors besides the one going into the board the drive is plugged into. http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/ide-cable-select.html The one error seen there however is marking the center as the master while the master is seen at the end of the cable with the center used for the slaved ide type drive.

If you have a floppy drive then you already know what an ide connector on the board looks like even though the one for floppies is not as wide. For the full definitaion on sata drives review the Wikipedia page seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA Note the lower right shows both a sata data cable with a right angle plug and the typical power plug as well.

On the board here you see the options for sata array for using two drives as one or having each seen as sata master #1, sata master #2, sata master #3 and some boards have upto a six drive over four drive capability. On your board first review the section on the bios settings. Once set correctly the Vista installer should readily see the drive as well as the bios did at post. You mention having it set to RAID not SATA there.
 
Thanks for that and sorry for the misunderstanding: I understand the difference between IDE and SATA, I was just confused about your question because I did say that the drive was an SATA drive. I haven't touched anything RAID or IDE, I've only been working with SATA.

I should reiterate the problem: after the Vista install or Vista itself crashes, the computer restarts and the BIOS fails to recognize the hard drive. I get a beepbeep, booting halts and asks me to hit F1 to continue or F2 to enter the BIOS settings. If I go into the BIOS settings, it says "Drive ID: Unknown" for the SATA port where the new HD is plugged in. This continues to be true until I physically turn the computer off (not just restart) and back on. After said power cycle, everything returns to operational status.

I absolutely understand how one would suspect this problem to be a cable or BIOS problem. However, the fact that a known good cable (worked for 2 years/still works with my old HD) is being used rules that out. As far as the BIOS, I have upgraded it to the latest version, and it has no problem dealing with my old HD, or dealing with the new HD when booting from the old HD. The only trouble arises when booting from the the new HD.

If it is a BIOS issue, is there any conceivable thing I could do about it other than complain to Dell (since I already have the most recent upgrade)?
 
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One wild idea may not be the actual case but listen anyways. Dell is known for things like having the bolt pattern different on the supplies they order so you always had to order replacements from them. The boards are also ordered specific with a variation or two seen there. Why not order drives with them seeing something different?

The other thing to look at is trying a different cable on the new sata drive anyways. Why? The cables that came along with the Asus board here wouldn't work on them. The ones ordered went on and everything is working? One slight diiference in the cable you wouldn't even see. I can imagine you reviewed the user manual and support site's knowledge base for bios settings when installing drives.

With the build here the Vista installer had no problem seeing the drive while XP couldn't find it without a driver disk? That's one other thing new about the installer there. Otherwise Vista should actually go on easier then XP did. The one thing to add here is a need for a Dell sata drivers for Vista like XP needed drivers for most boards. The new drive worked when slaved to the original since Dell drivers were already there for the other drive to work.
 
Solution

EUREKA! The frustrating part about this solution is that it is one of the first things I tried some weeks ago, and it didn't work. This time (so far) it seems to have done the trick.

The problem is that the new HD is a SATA-II drive, allowing transfer speeds of up to 3.0Gbs instead of 1.5. The BIOS claims that it can handle it (revealing the 3.0 stat in its setup screen), but it evidently cannot. Western Digital provides a jumper option for changing the drive back to original SATA format. Done and done. Thanks for your help, everyone.
 
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