Building my own computer

Jeepers79 · Aug 5, 2004

What do you think?
THanks! Mike

Flash_AAA · Aug 5, 2004

Found the same specs/brand harddrive on new egg for 63.00 http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-144-122&depa=1

On the cdrom lite-on is considered one of the best but that sony cd-R is at a good price.

I sure you can find a cheaper dvd on new egg i wouldnt get that sony DvdR for that price. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-106-934&depa=1

For 44 bucks you can get 9200 se on newegg.

You may want to shop around and compare prices newegg.com,

Jeepers79 · Aug 5, 2004

Thanks for the headsup on prices.
Any suggestions on the Mothorboard / proscessor choices. I have 2 there?

Mike

EMO-TOCROSS · Aug 5, 2004

Oh Oh I beat you to it Praetor

! Praetor has spec'd out a nice budget computer here http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/93097 , Use that to help you on what parts to choose.

Praetor · Aug 5, 2004

- You could do better than the Sony burner: too much price not enough performace. You'd be much better off with something like the LiteOn 52x32x52 or the ASUS 52x32x52
- As for the DVD burner... assuming you got one of the above burners, you've got yourself a very solid 2-sheep burner so just grab either a Pioneer107 or if you want DL support, the LiteOn SOHW-832S is a nice one (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=27-106-946&depa=1)
- For the CPU, you're prolly best off staying away from the Prescott, more cost and hassle than performance gains.
- As for the mobo there's no competeition between those two since they arent using the same chipset, the ABIT is using the Canterwood while the ASUS is back with the SpringdaleG (which isnt as good). Also note that the IC7 Max3 has an OTES system which works (ideally) if the case supports it. If you dont want/need the OTES, the IC7 Max2 is the same board just without the OTES
- You might consider either more memory or faster memory
- Nice call on the video card although I think if you dont intend to do gaming at all you should get something really cheap like a TNT2 which can prolly be had for like $15USD

Jeepers79 · Aug 5, 2004

Praetor said:
-
- For the CPU, you're prolly best off staying away from the Prescott, more cost and hassle than performance gains.
- As for the mobo there's no competeition between those two since they arent using the same chipset, the ABIT is using the Canterwood while the ASUS is back with the SpringdaleG (which isnt as good). Also note that the IC7 Max3 has an OTES system which works (ideally) if the case supports it. If you dont want/need the OTES, the IC7 Max2 is the same board just without the OTES
- You might consider either more memory or faster memory

Not to sound stupid. what is OTES? Man I thought I knew a little about computers...then I came here!

Guys basically here I am looking to build a decent computer for every day "stuff" no gaming or that stuff. But don't want a cookie cutter compaq POS I dont want to spend a ton either.
And what do I look for to know if the case will support the mobo? Sorry fot the lamo questions..
Mike

Praetor · Aug 5, 2004

OTES
OTES is an Abit specific feature for cooling capacitors and such on their P4 boards (see http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/products.php?categories=1&model=130 for the product info/spec). It stands for outside thermal exhaust system and in short it just means that instead of "normally" just having a fan blow down on a heatsink and getting the heat off the heatsink by moving it to the case, it immediately ejects the heat from the case. If you look at the below picture you'll see a funky fan contraption right above/left-of the PS2 connectors.

That fan (attemtps to) remove the heat generated in the capactitors and coils and such so that the mobo has a clean supply of power etc. Why isnt this found on other boards? Probably because it's more of a novelty feature -- if it was absolutely critical or yielded undeniable massive performance/reliability issues than it would have been implemented on a lot more mobos.

Now the downside is that (in most cases), if you look at the back of your case, you'll realize the OTES system will actually vent heat out... directly into the backplate of the case (i dont have concrete evidence of this but i'll get to that in a sec). The reason I say this is because, comparing it to "standard" mobos, the PS2 connectors shown there are fairly normal meaning that the PS2 connectors are not "shifted to allow for room"; if someone knows better I'd like some confirmation/correction on that. The second reason I say that is because if I recall correctly, some cases are "OTES-qualified" whereas some other arent so that would suggest that some cases have "non-standard" backplates to accomodate the exhaust system (of course you can always cut the case a bit)

Guys basically here I am looking to build a decent computer for every day "stuff" no gaming or that stuff. But don't want a cookie cutter compaq POS I dont want to spend a ton either.

Ok in that case I'd say that the IC7 Max3, although a superb board, might be a bit of overkill for you. A mobo based on the I865 (or variants) chipset would be a better choice performance/price-wise. Two such boards are the Abit AI7 and the ASUS P4P800 boards both of which are based on the i865PE chipset which for all intents and purposes is absolutely identical to the i875 used on the IC7/P4C800 flagship boards. Now if you arent gonna be OCing or doing hardcore gaming you might consider not getting the IC7Max3 and rid yourself of the potential hassle of figuring out about the case

tristan · Aug 5, 2004

Then you dont really need to get into 64's. Go with a Athlon XP, the chips will be much cheaper and the mobo's more reliable and stable (since they have been out longer and problems have been worked out). If you just want something to surf around on the web and do some everyday stuff but want it to last a long time go with a 3000+. That will last you quite a while. Go with a ABit or ASUS mobo.

Jeepers79 · Aug 5, 2004

Wow.
You guys know your $hit

thanks SO much for the great info. I will poke around, and maybe re-vamp my plans...and run them by again!

Is NewEgg about the best place to shop?

Mike

tristan · Aug 5, 2004

Yes, newegg has great prices, and extremely fast shipping. Their RMA service is on point too.

Jeepers79 · Aug 6, 2004

tristan · Aug 6, 2004

Any of those cases will do just fine.
I highly suggest one of these for the PSU
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-962&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-963&depa=0
That one would do but the PSU isnt really something you want to just go skimpy on. Especially if you plan on doing any kind of OC'ing.
Great DVD burner. Plextors the way to go
Great CPU
Great Mobo, BUT it is very new (just came out this month) so you are going to have to wait a little bit for the updated bios. So far i have heard its a great board though. (I have a Nf7-S v.2 and i love it)
Good solid HD

Video Card:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-360&depa=1
this would be a good lower budget one.
or this
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-314&depa=1
I typically wouldnt recommend Sapphire because of their benchmark results but this would be a solid card for a non-gamer.
Memory- one stick of 512 pc2700 would be fine. (i typically go with either crucial or corsair) there are a bunch of good brands though. if you want a little more go with pc3200, and if you want even more grab a gig stick or 2 512's.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=20-146-541&DEPA=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=20-145-479&DEPA=1

(OCZ and GEIL are also very high performance sticks but very pricey.)

Jeepers79 · Aug 6, 2004

Thanks!
What MOBO do you think is better of the 2 I have there? Or is there another recommendation?

You guys are great
Mike

Praetor · Aug 6, 2004

I typically wouldnt recommend Sapphire because of their benchmark results but this would be a solid card for a non-gamer.

What benchmark results? They use the same video chip, the same memory, the same output, the same input, virtually identical electrical components (capactitors, transistors etc). The only difference is (a) they are assembled (note the word choice there) abroad and (b) typically the PCB board is a different color neither of which translate to noticeable differences in end-user performance.

What MOBO do you think is better of the 2 I have there? Or is there another recommendation?

Either is good.... can't really go wrong with it. Go for the cheaper one.

tristan · Aug 6, 2004

Praetor, the sapphire does not come with heatsink fan like others do. They overheat and are unable to be clocked verywell resulting in poor benchmarks.

I have done my own tests with ATI cards versus Sapphire. There is definately a difference. Sapphire is just supplied with cheaper parts. When it comes to video cards, you get what you pay for.

As for the 2 mobos they are both great. I go with ABit because of its amazing OC'ing capabilities. Just food for thought for down the road.

Praetor · Aug 6, 2004

Praetor, the sapphire does not come with heatsink fan like others do. They overheat and are unable to be clocked verywell resulting in poor benchmarks.

1. For the money you save going Sapphire, you can get a damn nice Artic cooler.
2. If you intend to seriously OC your card you'd get an aftermarket cooler regardless of the make so it's a slightly moot point I would imagine.
3. Look at the ASUS 9200 or since you like Abit, have a look at their 9200. No fan.

I have done my own tests with ATI cards versus Sapphire. There is definately a difference.

Are you comparing a OC'd ATi card with a non-OCd Sapphire? If not I highly doubt the Sapphire will get dominated by the ATi card left right and centre because if that was the case, they'd either (a) out of business or (b) a lot cheaper.

Jeepers79 · Aug 6, 2004

tristan · Aug 6, 2004

My stock ATI Radeon 9800 pro comes with adequite cooling and has no need for aftermarket cooling. I have it OC'ed a ton also. Would you disagree that Sapphire is a cheaper company that uses cheaper parts?
For example here. This sapphire 9200se doesnt even have a heatsink
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-102-298&DEPA=1
and look at the pure size of the heatsink on the ABit.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-123-136&DEPA=1

I was able to OC a ATI 9200se a lot more than the Sapphire, and had better results.

Praetor · Aug 6, 2004

My stock ATI Radeon 9800 pro comes with adequite cooling and has no need for aftermarket cooling. I have it OC'ed a ton also. Would you disagree that Sapphire is a cheaper company that uses cheaper parts?

We're not comparing the 9800 Pro. If you can find a 9800Pro that doesnt ship with active (or exotic) cooling lemme know and I'll yell at the company myself. We're talking about the 9200 (or now that you mention it, the 9200SE). Have a look at two such cards from reputable companies we've all come to know and love:
- http://usa.asus.com/products/vga/r9200se/overview.htm
- http://www.abit-usa.com/products/graphics/techspec.php?categories=2&model=171
- http://www.abit-usa.com/products/graphics/techspec.php?categories=2&model=171
Hell even the ATI one doesnt have a fan:
- http://www.pcchipsusa.com/prod-atiradeon9200-1.asp

Sapphire is a cheaper company that uses cheaper parts?

In order for Sapphire to maintain it's contract and partnership with ATI it needs to adhere to certain conditions and regulations and such. A few of them are:
- They must use ATi made chips (duh)
- They must use ATi-spec'd memory (duh)
- They must meet ATi-spec'd QC (again, duh)
This is nothing special and all the major companies shipping ATi based cards must adhere to the same basic conditions. How and where they make their product is up to the company. In the case of Sapphire .. they save craploads of money from two things:
- They are based out in Asia where mass manufacturing facilities are already established
- Cheaper labour force
- Brute force raw materials
- Favorable exchange rate
The only unique cost of this is shipping but when you're talking about shipping say 500,000 units it's a moot point per card. Thus they can make a comparable card for a crapload cheaper.

I was able to OC a ATI 9200se a lot more than the Sapphire, and had better results.

I hope that's not the basis for your argument :S I assume you've done quite a bit of OCing here and there so I'll be brief: you take two cards, both, say, 9200 (even the ATI ones if you want) and you OC them. It's quite possible that you can OC one by 100Mhz and the other by only 10Mhz .. you should know that! Now unless you've tried this with like 30 cards of each it's quite possible you just had a not-so-OC-friendly-card

and look at the pure size of the heatsink on the ABit.

Btw note that the Abit one is pre-OCd.

Now to the real point behind this.....for average Joe users getting a 9200SE.... do you think they give a crap whether their card overheats at 1900x1600 with settings to max? Hardly, they'll be busy trying to get a medium details running at 1024x768. Let's also not forget the targeted profile for the 9200 series: the business environment (low budget gaming was a secondary -- and much less lucrative market). For business machines running office apps, their's no way in hell the 9200SE will overheat, HSF or not. I think both you and I are looking at this card from a gamer perspective when really it should be from a non-gamer perspective because that's their targeted market. But since I work in computer sales, I'll grab a heatsinkless Sapphire and I'll give it a whirl ... doubt it will overheat but ya never know (got a HSF-less GF4MX and that can play games without overheating... again i could just be lucky) ... i'll let you know how that goes

tristan · Aug 6, 2004

Bottom line, if you are going for really high quality Sapphire isnt the way to go. Their pros lie in there cost rather than quality. Thats all I am saying. Like I said for this case, since he isnt a gamer, it really doesnt matter. Hense why i recommended it.

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