High performance vid card/ upgrade system

[crypter]

theres a cuple issues i have questions on but the main thing is the videocard.

my budget will probally be around $400(for videocard) but i would still like to know about other stuff like ram and processor ect because i may want to upgrade in the future.

my system:
MS XP Pro version 2002 service pack 1
pentium(r) 4 CPU 2.00 GHz
512mb of RAM
Video Card: Nvidia GeForce4 Ti 4200

I was told this is a great card (ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT), but i am looking for something that i wont have any problems with. One example is Joint operations, with all the trees it gets laggy, i also have MS flight sim 2004 and it can become laggy,and Americas Army operations on some maps. (hopfully you know about at least 1 of these games).

But there is also the next version up thats $410. its not a GT( no itda what that GT means) (http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchProductResult.asp?Submit=Go&DEPA=0)
how much better if at all will that $410 card be compare to the $340? Will i be able to see a difference.

A cuple things i have never been able to find answers for:
( for all of these i would like to know, should i upgrade or am i running fast enough that i wont be able to tell much difference at all?)

1.DOes the processor speed affect gameplay, what exactly does it do?
2.will more ram help game speed or can it increase framerate(not on vid card).
3. how does the ram on video card help it go faster. I dont see any difference between the 128 and 256 cards, is there a difference?
4. Is there anything else i shoudl look into to make games run faster/smoother

also, if you think i can find a better card rather than these asus cards please tell me about it..
let me say thanks in advanced for any help!

direct links:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-177&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-172&depa=0

 

[RiseandTakeOver]

as a diehard ATI fan.. i'd say go with this http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-363&depa=0 it is under $400 (by 1 cent lol) and has higher specs then the ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT...

i don't have experience with those games so i couldn't tell you about the lag or choppiness or w/e..

 

[Praetor]

I was told this is a great card (ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT)

Normally I would agree. In this case, ASUS (overall) ****ed up -- bad (if you think about it and are willing to do a small gamble it works out in your favor but more on that in a bit). Firstly lets have a look at the ASUS 6800 and 6800GT and compare them to nVidia's reference 6800/6800GT:

ASUS V9999GT/TD/128
GPU: 6800GT
CORE: 300
MEM: 350(700)
MEM: 128MB DDR

ASUS V9999GE/TD/256
GPU: 6800
CORE: 350
MEM: 500(1000)
MEM: 256MB GDDR3

nVidia 6800
GPU: 6800
CORE: 300
MEM: 350(700)
MEM: 128MB DDR

nVidia 6800GT
GPU: 6800GT
CORE: 350
MEM: 500(1000)
MEM: 256MB GDDR3

Seems to be an interesting swticheroo and more so when you consider the V9999GT is on average $100 cheaper than the V9999GE. Lets look a bit deeper that the V9999GE and why its so much more powerful than the reference model:

- The "base" chip from which all the variants are created from is the 6800Ultra. 6800GTs are damn near identical in every respect (which is why they are so damn awesome as far as price/perf goes). The 6800 chips are 6800Us with a quadbank of shaders deactivated (so 12 in stead of 16). There is also a lesser-known 6800LE which comes with 8 such shaders ... soooooooo... looking over the spectrum of GPUS:

6800U/6800UE/6800GT = 16x6
6800 = 12x5
6800LE = 8x4

- Now the catch is that, in some cases, the "missing" pipes are not hardware missing but rather "turned off". A bit of research will show you how to enable them. The good news is that if it works you save some money; if it doesnt work you can undo the changes fairly easily. The bad news is that some cards (seemingly random) are hardware locked (so they are physically missing the pipes) and even worse ... some "6800GTs" are actually shipping with 12x6, 12x5, 16x5 configurations and while there doesnt seem to be a major perpetrator (as most of the OEMs have been tagged at least once with the exception of a few ... that ive heard of at least).
- I myself was gonna get a 6800 and softmod it however the turn off is that you cant softmod memory Thats where the V9999GE comes in. Now with most 6800s however there is a somewhat insignificant gain in performance because (a) the framebuffer is capped at 128MB, (b) the memory is capped at a silly 350(700) and (c) you cant OC the memory as much as you'd like because (i) DDR isnt designed for uber high clocks like GDDR2/GDDR3 and (ii) many of the boards just "cant" do it (most common OCs are in the 400(800) ballpark ... not worth the extra work for some people
- Now with resoect to the V9999GT, i had the chance to try it out and i dug around and found it to be 16x5 -- missing a pipe. Fluke? Possibly. Good impression? Definitely not.

i also have MS flight sim 2004

Your Ti4200 shouldnt lag out on that. My Ti4400 and Ti4600 chewed that game to pieces.

But there is also the next version up thats $410. its not a GT( no itda what that GT means) (http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchPro...ubmit=Go&DEPA=0)

That gave me a useless page

how much better if at all will that $410 card be compare to the $340? Will i be able to see a difference

Sounds like the V9999GE to me but i dunno cuz the page is useless

should i upgrade or am i running fast enough that i wont be able to tell much difference at all?)

You'll definitely notice an improvement. Personally id reccomend you get a 6800, softmod it and spend the money on upping the mobo/proc/ram

DOes the processor speed affect gameplay, what exactly does it do?

LOL i dont think i ever would have expected that kind of question. The answer is DEFINTELY.

will more ram help game speed or can it increase framerate(not on vid card).

The literal answer is no. Only changing the gamespeed can increase the gamespeed The useful answer is yes. heehee

how does the ram on video card help it go faster

By keeping the data on the video card and within the video memory (which is significantly faster than the system memory and system interlink)

I dont see any difference between the 128 and 256 cards

Prolly cuz you're running a 128MB card?

Is there anything else i shoudl look into to make games run faster/smoother

There's ALWAYS something

also, if you think i can find a better card rather than these asus cards please tell me about it..

For a 6800 the ASUS is the best handsdown. For a 6800GT, the BFG is the best

and has higher specs then the ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT...

Thats because:
1. Numbers dont mean shit without units
2. The ASUS V9999GT is a piece of crap and should be shot as it violates the GT spec. Next to a real 6800GT the X800Pro would be chewed up and eaten alive (of course if you read what i wrote above carefully..... )

 

[Blue]

ya the V9999 Gamer Edition is a 12 pipe card advertised as a 16 pipe card it's actualy a 6800 with GDDR3 memory and clocked at GT speeds. They all apparently have 12 pipes.. can you say false advertisement?

This was read in this months PC Gamer.

 

[Praetor]

ya the V9999 Gamer Edition is a 12 pipe card advertised as a 16 pipe card

Where is it advertised as 16 pipes?

They all apparently have 12 pipes.. can you say false advertisement?

1. The V9999GE is supposed to be 12x5
2. The V9999GT i 16x6 (well 16x5 in my case but thats still not 12)
3. The V9999U/D is 16x6

 

[Blue]

oh it may be my mistake! opps.. I never actualy looked at the asus website but the article in PC Gamer said that it was advertised as a 16 pipe card.

 

[Blue]

K,K here in the article they say that on the "Product box" it's advertised as a 16 pipe card and they suggest (PC Gammer) that's it's really a 12 pipe card.

 

[Praetor]

Oh ... well i dunno about the box "of old" but the new boxes have it right. (also it could be a typo ... anyone who's got my mobo will notice a particularly funny typo on the back )

 

[Blue]

Oh ... well i dunno about the box "of old" but the new boxes have it right. (also it could be a typo ... anyone who's got my mobo will notice a particularly funny typo on the back )

Ya I could see that.

 

[Blue]

Not trying to take over thise thread but quick question.

16x5 -- missing a pipe.

What's the 5 stand for?

 

[Praetor]

Pixel and Vertex shaders

 

[Blue]

k thanks.. I saw you mention the Ultra's and GT's where 16x6 yet mines a gt and it says 16x1.6vp so would this be the same?

this should be my last question thanks .. Oh and sorry crypter

 

[crypter]

hmm, no idea what

Pixel and Vertex shaders

are lol... A lot of info to digest when i dont know much about vid cards....

so, i am confused. if i want to be safe and not try to supe up the card ( turning on the other pipes) which card would be better?

ATI RADEON X800 PRO Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL

ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Video Card, 256MB DDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP, Model"V9999 Gamer Edition/TD/256M" -RETAIL

Or is it just a matter or what provider you like better? Why would you like one provider better than the other?

links:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-363&depa=0

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-121-172&depa=0

both of these cards will kill anything out there today right? Even if i dont update the rest of my comp? I know that updating cpu will deff increase performance. My plan is to get a card now thats really good so i wont be wanting to update it anytime soon, if ever, and ill just get more ram and faster processor later on. ( good idea or should i really consider getting the GT and more ram, or processor "which one" )

thanks a lot for replying soo fast and with all the info.. very appricated!

 

[Blue]

both of these cards will kill anything out there today right?

They are great but the answer to that question is nope.

Look at Nvidia's reguler GT type models,6800Ultra,RadeonX800XT and so on.

 

[Blue]

I know that updating cpu will deff increase performance.

your cpu would quickly become the bottleneck of your system with one of todays video cards.

3.ghz and up are recommended to keep the cpu from becomeing the bottleneck.

 

[Praetor]

k thanks.. I saw you mention the Ultra's and GT's where 16x6 yet mines a gt and it says 16x1.6vp so would this be the same?

16x1.6vp = 16x1 vertex, 6 pixel (as opposed to 32x0 vertex, 6 pixel which incidentally is the same thing)

are lol... A lot of info to digest when i dont know much about vid cards....

LOL sorry, pixel shaders are shaders (things that make shadows and 3d transforms etc) designed to deal with "pixels". Vertex shaders are designed more for object type shadows and transforms or so.

so, i am confused. if i want to be safe and not try to supe up the card ( turning on the other pipes) which card would be better?

If i understand correctly (at least for ATI), you can turn the latent pipes off if you so choose (i.e., if the pipes are actually nonfunctional)

ATI RADEON X800 PRO Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP -RETAIL
ASUS nVIDIA GeForce 6800 Video Card, 256MB DDR3, 256-Bit, TV-Out/DVI, 8X AGP, Model"V9999 Gamer Edition/TD/256M" -RETAIL

Its important to note that IF THAT WAS ANY OTHER 6800 card, the reccomendation would be oppsite. In this case, hunt down that ASUS because its clocked so much insanely higher.

They are great but the answer to that question is nope.

True. But for all intents and purposes the answer is "yes"

your cpu would quickly become the bottleneck of your system with one of todays video cards.

Id argue the video card

 

[Blue]

True. But for all intents and purposes the answer is "yes"

I must have missed somthing then because he said.

both of these cards will kill anything out there today right?

and they wont .

Its important to note that IF THAT WAS ANY OTHER 6800 card, the reccomendation would be oppsite. In this case, hunt down that ASUS because its clocked so much insanely higher.

True this card is better then the X800Pro but unless it's a fair bit cheaper then the GT dont even bother because your wasting your time. It's a 12 pipe card to start with and it's overclocked already just to reach the GT speeds so your prob. not even going to be able to push it much farther.

Get the Gamer Edition only if you find it at least $100. cheaper then the GT.

Id argue the video card

Well you know I like to argue ;-).. but i wont here .. I've just read that the cpu can quickly become the bottleneck whith the new gen video cards under 3ghz.

See all the gts are cheaper and they are much better cards.

http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchProductResult.asp?DEPA=0