How did my friends PSU die?

Shlouski

VIP Member
He went to turn on the computer and it tripped the breaker, turning off all the lights in the house. He then tried again and the same thing happened, but the 3rd time it just wouldnt turn on (no trip). Ive replaced the psu and now the computer is working fine, but i dont understand why the psu broke, when everything is plug into a surge protector. What could have happened?
 
Nobody can know. You would have to pop it open and see if you can see any burnt spot/s. If you do be careful, it can zap the hell out of ya. It could be a number of things cap/coil/resistor.
 
Its a club3d 850w, i looked at reviews for it and it a good psu. As you can see in my sig i have the same psu, but 1000w and the pc im on now has the club3d 600w lol.
 
PSU reviews are pointless, kind of. Once someone buys the PSU, and it works for say, a week, they'll give it a good review. If it breaks within a year, will they go back and write another review? Unlikely. So you need to get expert opinions, like those on this website. Reviews say there's 34 amps on the 12v rail, which is nothing for an 850w.
 
Its a club3d 850w, i looked at reviews for it and it a good psu.
Most psu reviews do not even discuss things that are important. Most reviews are useless. Most reviewers have never and could not even design a power supply. The important numbers are missing. Most reviews are subjective - also called useless or junk science.

Why does a supply fail? An example of what a tiny and informed minority say.
Many failures are manufacturing defects. Manufacturing defects can finally cause a failure even years later. Ie those counterfeit electrolytic capacitors that failed months or years later.
Read the details in post 4 in OCZ ZX Series 1000W PSU Blown out?
 
Most psu reviews do not even discuss things that are important. Most reviews are useless. Most reviewers have never and could not even design a power supply. The important numbers are missing. Most reviews are subjective - also called useless or junk science.

Why does a supply fail? An example of what a tiny and informed minority say. Read the details in post 4 in OCZ ZX Series 1000W PSU Blown out?

Thats your own post, duh.

Dont know what sites you look at for reviews, but they must be pretty lame. The best place is jonnyGURU. They are good quality reviews. The one thing a review cant do, is give you any idea of the longevity of the supply. Since they only test the supply.

True power supplies fail because of manufacturing defects, but that rate is low if you stick with higher quality manufactures. That rate is alot higher if you go with lowerend power supply manufacture. But the problem with your statement is, most lowerend manufactures that problem is by design. They purposely buy cheap components to sell a cheap supply usually with ratings the supply cant do. So what happens, failure. It is not a manufacturing defect, its by design.

If you buy from a quality manufacture, manufacturing defects % are really low and usually when found, fixed quickly.
 
Most psu reviews do not even discuss things that are important. Most reviews are useless. Most reviewers have never and could not even design a power supply. The important numbers are missing. Most reviews are subjective - also called useless or junk science.

Why does a supply fail? An example of what a tiny and informed minority say. Read the details in post 4 in OCZ ZX Series 1000W PSU Blown out?
Could you discuss what is important or relevant on what the reviewers seem to omit in their reviews.
Matter of fact some of your posts you do not make sense in your comments.
 
Could you discuss what is important or relevant on what the reviewers seem to omit in their reviews.
A useful review would include things that are operationally relevant. For example, short all outputs together when the supply is powered. How much power does it then output (and, of course, not fail)? Does its current foldback limiting work? And do those numbers meet ATX standards? How long does its fully loaded output provide power after input power is removed? How low does AC voltage drop without any affect on DC (output) voltage? How fast can loads change with no adverse affect on output voltages? For example, how fast can load on 5 volts change without even affecting the 3.3 volts? How well does the supply perform with various reactance (not resistance) loads? Sometimes a supply can fail intermittently, not power up, or oscillate when load reactance is too extreme. How extreme?

What is ripple voltage under various loads? How stable are all voltages when individual loads vary? Can it output a full load even when room temperatures well exceed 100 degrees F (what is a normal temperature for all PCs)? How well does the other supply inside a PSU (+5VSB) also meet these same requirements for short circuit, load variations, etc?

How robust is the supply? How many thousands of volts can its input suffer without damage? How well is its line filtering? How severe can AC line noise be without affecting DC output voltages? Does no noise appear on any adjacent longwave or AM radio when located adjacent to that supply? Does it really conform to FCC and other international standards? Does it exceed its power factor numbers? How 'dirty' (ie %THD) can input power be without causing operational problems? How high and low can AC voltages actually be without causing any output power interruption? What are the actual threshold voltages for the Power Good signal? Or does that power Good signal even report anything useful? Does the 3.3, 5, and 12 volts always remain higher to each other as power starts and during power down under various loading? For example, should the 5 volts fall faster than the 3.3 volts, then eventually semiconductor damage can result. No supply must even cause damage to its load (ie motherboard).

Does the supply actually have overvoltage protection? What it that threshold voltage for each output? What are the actual efficiencies at various loads. Is its maximum efficiency at full load or only at half load? What is a acoustics noise in dBs? Does it use smart fans? Does the supply protect itself when no air flows through its box? How high must room temperature actually be before that supply safely powers off? What safety compliances does it meet? How does it conform to various international standards from EN61000?

What is its rated MTBF for full load? Just some relevant parameters for all supplies. How to select a supply based upon what is important. Visual inspections report near nothing. What does the supply actually do? For example, how good is surge protection that is found inside all appliances? Do all reviews report these basic operational specifications?

So many know so little about computer power systems (which is more than just a PSU) as to automatically blame surges for failures traceable to manufacturing defects. Therefore the PSU market is ripe for dumping inferior products in a market dominated by computer assemblers. Who select a supply only on dollar, watts, and hearsay. Why do so many buy 800 watt supplies for a computer that does not even consume 350 watts? That draws well less than 200 watts most of the time? If a supply is grossly oversized, then one need not learn relevant and simplest facts such as how many amperes for each voltage.

If reviewers were discussing these relevant operational requirements and numbers, then most of what is in this post is familiar (if not understood) by the reader. Good reviewers should be informing a consumer of factors that determine PSU operation. Some power supplies may be so poorly designed as to not even provide a Power Good signal in response to a power system failure. How would we know? How often do reviewers test the Power Good signal operation? Does it do what it is suppose to do?
 
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A useful review would include things that are operationally relevant. For example, short all outputs together when the supply is powered. How much power does it then output (and, of course, not fail)? Does its current foldback limiting work? And do those numbers meet ATX standards? How long does its fully loaded output provide power after input power is removed? How low does AC voltage drop without any affect on DC (output) voltage? How fast can loads change with no adverse affect on output voltages? For example, how fast can load on 5 volts change without even affecting the 3.3 volts? How well does the supply perform with various reactance (not resistance) loads? Sometimes a supply can fail intermittently, not power up, or oscillate when load reactance is too extreme. How extreme?

What is ripple voltage under various loads? How stable are all voltages when individual loads vary? Can it output a full load even when room temperatures well exceed 100 degrees F (what is a normal temperature for all PCs)? How well does the other supply inside a PSU (+5VSB) also meet these same requirements for short circuit, load variations, etc?

How robust is the supply? How many thousands of volts can its input suffer without damage? How well is its line filtering? How severe can AC line noise be without affecting DC output voltages? Does no noise appear on any adjacent longwave or AM radio when located adjacent to that supply? Does it really conform to FCC and other international standards? Does it exceed its power factor numbers? How 'dirty' (ie %THD) can input power be without causing operational problems? How high and low can AC voltages actually be without causing any output power interruption? What are the actual threshold voltages for the Power Good signal? Or does that power Good signal even report anything useful? Does the 3.3, 5, and 12 volts always remain higher to each other as power starts and during power down under various loading? For example, should the 5 volts fall faster than the 3.3 volts, then eventually semiconductor damage can result. No supply must even cause damage to its load (ie motherboard).

Does the supply actually have overvoltage protection? What it that threshold voltage for each output? What are the actual efficiencies at various loads. Is its maximum efficiency at full load or only at half load? What is a acoustics noise in dBs? Does it use smart fans? Does the supply protect itself when no air flows through its box? How high must room temperature actually be before that supply safely powers off? What safety compliances does it meet? How does it conform to various international standards from EN61000?

What is its rated MTBF for full load? Just some relevant parameters for all supplies. How to select a supply based upon what is important. Visual inspections report near nothing. What does the supply actually do? For example, how good is surge protection that is found inside all appliances? Do all reviews report these basic operational specifications?

So many know so little about computer power systems (which is more than just a PSU) as to automatically blame surges for failures traceable to manufacturing defects. Therefore the PSU market is ripe for dumping inferior products in a market dominated by computer assemblers. Who select a supply only on dollar, watts, and hearsay. Why do so many buy 800 watt supplies for a computer that does not even consume 350 watts? That draws well less than 200 watts most of the time? If a supply is grossly oversized, then one need not learn relevant and simplest facts such as how many amperes for each voltage.

If reviewers were discussing these relevant operational requirements and numbers, then most of what is in this post is familiar (if not understood) by the reader. Good reviewers should be informing a consumer of factors that determine PSU operation. Some power supplies may be so poorly designed as to not even provide a Power Good signal in response to a power system failure. How would we know? How often do reviewers test the Power Good signal operation? Does it do what it is suppose to do?
You do raise some certain valid points on power supplies but as you obviously know a lot of details are omitted as the average user would not understand unless they have a relevant electrical back ground knowledge.
Unfortunately the governing regulators allow the manufactures to get away with sub standard PSU's which are marketed under obscure label specifications and the average consumer would not have a clue if they are purchasing rubbish to good quality.
Thanks for your response
 
]Unfortunately the governing regulators allow the manufactures to get away with sub standard PSU's ...
Unfortunately, that is not the reason for substandard supplies. Government authorities define what a supply must do AFTER it is part of a system. A computer assembler is 100% responsible for meeting those standards - not any supply manufacturers.

Ignorance would not exist IF reviewers had the necessary technical knowledge. Those technical requirements would be understood by computer assemblers IF reviewers discussed what was important. Many reviewers do not even discuss numbers from the manufacturer spec sheets.

Why do a majority of computer assemblers believe an 800 watt supply is necessary when most all computers consume an average of less than 200 watts? As I said, "Most psu reviews do not even discuss things that are important."

Why do power supplies fail? Most failures are due to manufacturing defects as described in OCZ ZX Series 1000W PSU Blown out?

Why do so many connect a power strip protector to an adjacent power supply? Same technical ignorance. A protector too close to electronics and too far from earth ground can even make electronics damage easier. Has a history of creating house fires. And does nothing to avert manufacturing defects.

Most supply failures are due to same reasons for that flurry of bulging electrolytic capacitors with counterfeit electrolyte. Manufacturing defects. Number of possible defects are so great that getting any PSU to work for only $60 is truly amazing. #1 reason for substandard supplies are computer assemblers - especially computer technicians - who remain so technically naive. A computer tech need not know anything about electricity to even pass the A+ Certified Computer Tech exams. Many do not even know a system assembler - not part suppliers - is responsible for meeting government and design standards.
 
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