How do you downgrade from Windows XP to Windows 98?

[Zatharus]

An upgrade! Eureka! Thanks, Zatharus--you just saved me two days' work and reinstalling all my apps. The answer was so obvious, I couldn't see it. You can tell how long it's been since I installed an OS--I've been using Win2k happily since the early part of the decade, and I forgot all about upgrades! You made my day!

Always glad to help. :good:

After I upgrade, can I image the HD to the drive on a new machine and have it work?

Yes and no. You can easily image the drive and transfer it to another drive in the same machine. Windows doesn't play nice when moving from one setup to a completely different one. Now, if the computers are essentially the same (we're talking identical motherboard, CPU type, add-ons) then you won't have to much of an issue.

Another issue to consider is transferring the XP activation. As long as you have a full retail copy of Windows XP, you will be fine. If you only have an OEM version (i.e. one that came with a computer or purchased as an OEM license with other computer parts), then you cannot transfer the software.

What computer spec are you considering transferring from and to?

Do you reinstall Windows often? I don't think I've ever done it, or maybe once.

Ha ha ha...well, it depends on how fed-up I am with the installation. On critical work machines, I would usually re-install the OS about once every three months to once a year. It's always nice to start fresh and snappy. Preventative maintenance tools have gotten better over the years, and I have tempered my experimentation somewhat (ish), so I don't do it as often.

However, in the last two weeks, with one hard drive deciding to develop cancer, a decision to ditch XP completely and embrace the wonderfulness that is Windows 7 whole heartedly, and a sadistic desire to re-arrange my hard drive layout several times while doing so...I will be on my third install in two weeks tonight.

My XP installation was (is) probably about a year old. It was showing signs of wear...bad drive didn't help either.

Sometimes it can be thereputic. And, sometimes I think saying that is just a coping mechanism.

 

[Inquiring]

You can easily image the drive and transfer it to another drive in the same machine. Windows doesn't play nice when moving from one setup to a completely different one. Now, if the computers are essentially the same (we're talking identical motherboard, CPU type, add-ons) then you won't have to much of an issue.

Actually, no ...

Another issue to consider is transferring the XP activation. As long as you have a full retail copy of Windows XP, you will be fine. If you only have an OEM version (i.e. one that came with a computer or purchased as an OEM license with other computer parts), then you cannot transfer the software.

What computer spec are you considering transferring from and to?

I was going to transfer from a 5-year-old no-name box from Tiger (Soyo mobo) to a new Compaq Presario desktop. Isn't there a way to do this? I thought I remembered seeing a MS KB article about how to prep the computer for a HD transfer.

I was going to buy the upgrade online (Amazon), so it would be a retail version. Looking into it further, I found that I can't upgrade Win2k Pro to XP Home--I'll need to go to XP Pro, which is an extra $100. But at least I won't have to reinstall all those @#$% applications.

Ha ha ha...well, it depends on how fed-up I am with the installation. On critical work machines, I would usually re-install the OS about once every three months to once a year. It's always nice to start fresh and snappy. Preventative maintenance tools have gotten better over the years, and I have tempered my experimentation somewhat (ish), so I don't do it as often.

However, in the last two weeks, with one hard drive deciding to develop cancer, a decision to ditch XP completely and embrace the wonderfulness that is Windows 7 whole heartedly, and a sadistic desire to re-arrange my hard drive layout several times while doing so...I will be on my third install in two weeks tonight.

My XP installation was (is) probably about a year old. It was showing signs of wear...bad drive didn't help either.

Sometimes it can be thereputic. And, sometimes I think saying that is just a coping mechanism.

Therapeutic? Third install in two weeks? You do this for recreation? Yeah, I would say coping mechanism is probably what we're dealing with here.

How can you go with Win7? Isn't it still in beta?

 

[tlarkin]

You won't be able to image a machine that is 5 years old and then toss that image on a newer hardware, it will freak out, especially on Windows.

 

[Zatharus]

Actually, no ...
I was going to transfer from a 5-year-old no-name box from Tiger (Soyo mobo) to a new Compaq Presario desktop. Isn't there a way to do this? I thought I remembered seeing a MS KB article about how to prep the computer for a HD transfer.

Yeah, that's not going to work for a transfer. I think I know which knowledge base article you are referring to, but you would be better off just installing fresh on the new machine. You can use migration utilities to move settings and files over. As for the app-transfer...re-install.

I was going to buy the upgrade online (Amazon), so it would be a retail version. Looking into it further, I found that I can't upgrade Win2k Pro to XP Home--I'll need to go to XP Pro, which is an extra $100. But at least I won't have to reinstall all those @#$% applications.

Go with XP Pro. Don't waste your time (or money) with Home.

Heh heh, I know your pain with the app re-installs. If you have been using this same computer for years, it can be quite a shocker when you finally realize how much you have customized your OS environment. It can be a pain to re-build.

Therapeutic? Third install in two weeks? You do this for recreation? Yeah, I would say coping mechanism is probably what we're dealing with here.

To a point, I do enjoy it. However, I'm a bit frustrated with myself for not changing everything at once and going about it piecemeal instead. I greatly prefer doing it right the first time. As for recreation, I would much rather be using the computer now instead of re-building it. Eh, I've not had much time for goofing off recently anyway. If I do, it comes at the expense of sleep.

How can you go with Win7? Isn't it still in beta?

Yes, Win7 is still in Beta at least until August. I'm going on the hope that there will be some kind of extension or upgrade path out of the beta by then. If not, oh well. I know what I need well enough that it won't be too big of a hassle to restore my XP partition and carry on until Win7 is available for purchase.

 

[Inquiring]

You won't be able to image a machine that is 5 years old and then toss that image on a newer hardware, it will freak out, especially on Windows.

Yeah, that's not going to work for a transfer. I think I know which knowledge base article you are referring to, but you would be better off just installing fresh on the new machine. You can use migration utilities to move settings and files over. As for the app-transfer...re-install.

Ohhh .... ohhh ... <loud groans> You had to shoot me down. I was really living there for a while.

As for the app-transfer...re-install.

Reinstall 60 apps? Ohhh .... ohhh ... <loud groans>

Go with XP Pro. Don't waste your time (or money) with Home.

I thought I read that Home had the same capabilities as Pro, you just had to turn them on?

Heh heh, I know your pain with the app re-installs. If you have been using this same computer for years, it can be quite a shocker when you finally realize how much you have customized your OS environment. It can be a pain to re-build.

I know. I've been struggling against it, sort of in denial, like trying to avoid being sucked down by an undertow, and for a moment there I thought you'd thrown me a life preserver. Looks like it was an anchor instead ... The new machine came with Vista, but I don't even want to go there.

What is there about the OS that makes it not work in another machine? Does it lock to the hardware? Can't anyone come up with a way to move it?

To a point, I do enjoy it.

... like beating your head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when you stop? If you live in New England, I'll be glad to let you do mine. I'd even pay.

 

[Zatharus]

I thought I read that Home had the same capabilities as Pro, you just had to turn them on?

No no no! Sadly, Microsoft doesn't work that way.

Windows XP Home is the clipped wing pheasant to XP Pro's Peregrine Falcon.

I know. I've been struggling against it, sort of in denial, like trying to avoid being sucked down by an undertow, and for a moment there I thought you'd thrown me a life preserver. Looks like it was an anchor instead ... The new machine came with Vista, but I don't even want to go there.

Uh-oh... Were you under the impression that you could just upgrade your old computer's Win2k partition and then move it to the new computer? That won't work. The upgrade on your old machine will if it stays on our old machine.

Honestly, I would recommend just using the Vista install on the new machine until Windows 7 comes out. The upgrade path from Vista to Windows 7 will be very simple. If you don't want to do that, just wipe it and install a fresh version of XP.

What is there about the OS that makes it not work in another machine? Does it lock to the hardware?

Drivers, activation, registry settings... Essentially the way Windows works, it is locked to the computer configuration. Moving it would require heavy modification to the original install.

Can't anyone come up with a way to move it?

Microsoft? They wrote the behemoth.

... like beating your head against a brick wall, because it feels so good when you stop? If you live in New England, I'll be glad to let you do mine. I'd even pay.

That is a macabre way of putting it but, yeah, pretty close. I like a challenge.

I do not live in New England, otherwise I would be glad to take you up on your offer.


FYI - since we have essentially hijacked the original thread with this conversation, I would recommend moving it to your own thread if you want to continue.

 

[Inquiring]

FYI - since we have essentially hijacked the original thread with this conversation, I would recommend moving it to your own thread if you want to continue.

Sorry about that, though I thought that discussion was done. Since we already have a number of posts here, maybe the admin could move them, starting with #16? Title of the new thread could be "Any way to minimize the pain of upgrading?"

No no no! Sadly, Microsoft doesn't work that way.

Windows XP Home is the clipped wing pheasant to XP Pro's Peregrine Falcon.

Actually, all I need from Pro is multiprocessor support, and it appears I can turn that on in Home. I was going to get the OEM version of Home for $85. I don't need it for anything fancy.

Uh-oh... Were you under the impression that you could just upgrade your old computer's Win2k partition and then move it to the new computer? That won't work. The upgrade on your old machine will if it stays on our old machine.

Yes. Guess not. However! Once again you came to the rescue with your remark about a migration utility. Looking into them, I've found a couple that will move apps as well as settings and files. PCMover seems a likely choice, and MoveMe is another. Have you ever used a migration utility to move apps?

Honestly, I would recommend just using the Vista install on the new machine until Windows 7 comes out. The upgrade path from Vista to Windows 7 will be very simple. If you don't want to do that, just wipe it and install a fresh version of XP.

There's been so much negative coverage of Vista, and even if I wanted to deal with the glitches, it apparently won't run a lot of those apps I'm going to have to reinstall (or the migration utility will install for me).

 

[Zatharus]

Sorry about that, though I thought that discussion was done. Since we already have a number of posts here, maybe the admin could move them, starting with #16? Title of the new thread could be "Any way to minimize the pain of upgrading?"

No worries. Looks like we're fine.

Actually, all I need from Pro is multiprocessor support, and it appears I can turn that on in Home. I was going to get the OEM version of Home for $85. I don't need it for anything fancy.

Well, you learn something new every day. I was not aware of that...never even tried. I've needed XP Pro for other reasons, even before the Athlon X2s. Thank you for sharing that link. Interesting. Good luck with that!

Yes. Guess not. However! Once again you came to the rescue with your remark about a migration utility. Looking into them, I've found a couple that will move apps as well as settings and files. PCMover seems a likely choice, and MoveMe is another. Have you ever used a migration utility to move apps?

I am aware of PC Mover. I have not used it personally, but I know folks who have. Unless I am thinking of something else. That looks like the perfect solution for what you are thinking of. :good:

There's been so much negative coverage of Vista, and even if I wanted to deal with the glitches, it apparently won't run a lot of those apps I'm going to have to reinstall (or the migration utility will install for me).

I don't blame you. I'm trying to skip over Vista myself. XP to Win7.

It sounds like you have a lot of legacy apps. I propose to you another option. You could install Win2k into a virtual machine (Virtual PC is free) and use the migration program to move everything over to the environment you know they work with. You could do this under XP, Vista or Windows 7. Just a though.

 

[Inquiring]

Thank you for sharing that link.

Happy to return the favor. Amazing the stuff you can find on the internet, eh?

Interesting. Good luck with that!

I'm assuming that isn't intended the way it usually comes across--i.e., "Don't hold your breath!"

I am aware of PC Mover. I have not used it personally, but I know folks who have. Unless I am thinking of something else. That looks like the perfect solution for what you are thinking of. :good:

Yeah, I thought so too. It was just the sort of thing I was trying to articulate with the idea of moving the registry.

It sounds like you have a lot of legacy apps.

Not really--these have all been installed in the last few years, since XP came out, so I know they'll all run under XP. It's just that there's such a lot of them ...

I propose to you another option. You could install Win2k into a virtual machine (Virtual PC is free) and use the migration program to move everything over to the environment you know they work with. You could do this under XP, Vista or Windows 7. Just a though.

Are we back to the virtual machine again? I thought we gave that up after my first post! I don't think it'll be necessary. As I mentioned, these are all fairly recent apps, so they'll run under XP. Anyway, thanks for the help--you still ended up saving me a lot of time. I'll post here after doing the switch, to let you know how it went, though it may be a week or two.

 

[Zatharus]

I'm assuming that isn't intended the way it usually comes across--i.e., "Don't hold your breath!"

No, it was meant genuinely.
The method looks plausible. From what I read in that link, it is unsupported and you could cause further problems. But, hey, if it works, I won't argue with that! :good:

Yeah, I thought so too. It was just the sort of thing I was trying to articulate with the idea of moving the registry.

Gotcha. That was probably the nagging little though I had floating around in the back of my head the whole time...something had to be out there.

Are we back to the virtual machine again? I thought we gave that up after my first post! I don't think it'll be necessary. As I mentioned, these are all fairly recent apps, so they'll run under XP. Anyway, thanks for the help--you still ended up saving me a lot of time. I'll post here after doing the switch, to let you know how it went, though it may be a week or two.

Well, like I said, it was just a thought. Virtual machines can be quite useful (and entertaining*) depending on what your needs are. I have used them for running ancient software or other OSes - also with ancient software - in a modern system for various tasks.

*The entertaining bit: I once set out to test just how nasty the web can be to a virgin Windows XP install. We are talking version 1.0 here - unpatched, untouched by anything. I set up five or so virtual machines, all running the same cloned disk image running some status monitoring software, all on the same virtual lan...then exposed them to the internet...wide open. It took about 30 seconds to a minute for one of the machines to be taken over completely (which I considered to be a long time), and within five minutes all of the virtual machines were hosed. Quite fun. It was kind of like exposing five lab rats to the Ebola virus.

 

[Inquiring]

No, it was meant genuinely.
The method looks plausible. From what I read in that link, it is unsupported and you could cause further problems. But, hey, if it works, I won't argue with that! :good:

No, they offer support. Hopefully I won't need it.

Gotcha. That was probably the nagging little though I had floating around in the back of my head the whole time...something had to be out there.

Exactly. Of course, I wouldn't expect someone who does recreational OS installs to think of it off the bat ...

Well, like I said, it was just a thought. Virtual machines can be quite useful (and entertaining*) depending on what your needs are. I have used them for running ancient software or other OSes - also with ancient software - in a modern system for various tasks.

*The entertaining bit: I once set out to test just how nasty the web can be to a virgin Windows XP install. We are talking version 1.0 here - unpatched, untouched by anything. I set up five or so virtual machines, all running the same cloned disk image running some status monitoring software, all on the same virtual lan...then exposed them to the internet...wide open. It took about 30 seconds to a minute for one of the machines to be taken over completely (which I considered to be a long time), and within five minutes all of the virtual machines were hosed. Quite fun. It was kind of like exposing five lab rats to the Ebola virus.

... and then you shut them off, depriving those hardworking hackers of the fruits of their labors. Killjoy!

Actually, I didn't know it could happen that fast. There have been a couple of times when I've shut off my firewall for maybe 30 seconds or so. Guess I'll have to be a lot more vigilant!

 

[Hdk20]

One question why do you want to downgrade?

 

[Inquiring]

Okay, I'm back. Took a little longer than I thought.

To answer the question by Hdk20, based on what I've read about Vista, I don't consider dumping it for XP a downgrade . . . but that's why I did it.

So far, it's taken me about 5 days, and I'm not done yet, which is why I didn't want to get involved with this in the first place. But I really like this machine (Compaq Presario SR5710), because it's VERY quiet. So quiet, in fact, I can hardly tell it's running--especially compared to my old machine, which sounded like a cement mixer. But even on an absolute basis, the new one is really quiet. I had ordered a custom PC ($800) from a place on the West Coast that specializes in quiet PCs, and when it got here, I could hear it across the room, and was so annoyed that I sent it back and got this one off the shelf at Staples for less than half the price.

However, it's required a little work. Because it's a new machine, some of the components don't seem to have XP drivers--only Vista. So I spent a day looking all over the web for drivers and have found them, though I'm still tweaking some functions. (I'll post in another thread, since it's not related to this one.)

I'm pleased to report that the actual transfer went fine. PCMover is great--you just install it on both machines, use the cable supplied with it (definitely worth the extra $10 vs. just the app), and it pours the stuff from one to the other. I had 12GB, and it took just over 4 hours.

Anyway, Zatharus, if you're still around, thanks for pointing me in the direction of migration utilities.

 

[chibicitiberiu]

To answer to your question: You format your hard drive to FAT32 (if it already is, it is optional) with Partition Magic Boot Disks, then boot from the win98 boot diskette, and launch setup from the command line.

And no, windows xp doesn't have the 137 GB limit, my hard drive has 160 GB and xp can read it.

 

[hkgant]

Thanks for the help people. Sorry for the late reply. It was for an assignment.