I hardly see any threads about MACs in here.

[gamerman4]

No I understand your point and agree with you on some level. You are ignoring what I am saying, which is you can't come close to building an iMac out of the same parts it has retail, therefore they are not over priced. You on the other hand, ignored that completely, and went with the idea that you can build something better for cheaper. I agree, you can, because when you build you can cut corners like not adding ABGN wireless, LED LCD screens, or BT. I am saying when you add all of that up part for part retail the Mac is generally the same price or a bit cheaper.

They aren't over priced they just use high end parts. So, it is you that is totally missing the original point, when I said show me how you can build an iMac and have it cheaper. You didn't do that at all, you just built a desktop. You also didn't cite any of your resources with links, but I of course took your word for it.

Last time I tried to build a Mac with the exact parts that a Mac would have out of the box they came out more expensive. When I built it off newegg or custom ordered it from Dell.

I get what you mean by saying that part-for-part they may not be overpriced but they are overpriced in that you have less of what matters most for more of what matter least.
The reason for this is Apples fault. Microsoft just has the problem that they have to make an OS that fits any computer configuration. Apple has the problem of having an OS and a computer to fit any person that buys one. They add every feature they can and have to make up for that by sacrificing computer performance. I'm willing to bet that only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Mac owner actually use every single feature in their Mac. You can't "shop" for a mac with the stuff you need, Apple just has the stuff "they" think you need. Maybe someone doesn't want ABGN, they get a computer with ABG and a better CPU or if its a desktop, maybe they don't even need a wireless card (which is often the case). Maybe someone plans on photo editing but not now, they would want the computer with the most RAM, but Apple sacrificed some RAM for a firewire card, something video editors need but not really photo editors. A feature that someone does not use is a wasted price, something they could have saved money on or could have gotten more performance for. My hypthesis is that %90 of Mac users do not use at least one (probably two) hardware features on their Mac, thus spending money on nothing. That is how I think it is overpriced. They should do what every other computer maker does and that on the computer config screen have an option for "none" for some components.

 

[tlarkin]

I get what you mean by saying that part-for-part they may not be overpriced but they are overpriced in that you have less of what matters most for more of what matter least.
The reason for this is Apples fault. Microsoft just has the problem that they have to make an OS that fits any computer configuration. Apple has the problem of having an OS and a computer to fit any person that buys one. They add every feature they can and have to make up for that by sacrificing computer performance. I'm willing to bet that only a tiny fraction of a percentage of Mac owner actually use every single feature in their Mac. You can't "shop" for a mac with the stuff you need, Apple just has the stuff "they" think you need. Maybe someone doesn't want ABGN, they get a computer with ABG and a better CPU or if its a desktop, maybe they don't even need a wireless card (which is often the case). Maybe someone plans on photo editing but not now, they would want the computer with the most RAM, but Apple sacrificed some RAM for a firewire card, something video editors need but not really photo editors. A feature that someone does not use is a wasted price, something they could have saved money on or could have gotten more performance for. My hypthesis is that %90 of Mac users do not use at least one (probably two) hardware features on their Mac, thus spending money on nothing. That is how I think it is overpriced. They should do what every other computer maker does and that on the computer config screen have an option for "none" for some components.

This is purely opinion, what I stated was purely factual. They aren't over priced because they only put high end parts in their machines. You are getting what you pay for.

If you don't need it then don't buy it, that is simple. If you don't like them don't buy them. However, to sit there and say they are over priced because no one needs those features is irrelevant to what I originally stated. Part for part they are cheaper to buy from Apple than to build on your own for the most part. The Mac Pro compared to a major competitor like Dell or HP with a similar spec'd dual xeon desktop is almost always cheaper.

 

[gamerman4]

This is purely opinion, what I stated was purely factual. They aren't over priced because they only put high end parts in their machines. You are getting what you pay for.

If you don't need it then don't buy it, that is simple. If you don't like them don't buy them. However, to sit there and say they are over priced because no one needs those features is irrelevant to what I originally stated. Part for part they are cheaper to buy from Apple than to build on your own for the most part. The Mac Pro compared to a major competitor like Dell or HP with a similar spec'd dual xeon desktop is almost always cheaper.

Maybe overpriced was the wrong word but you get what you pay for regardless of whether you will ever want it and whatever you don't use is wasted and you paid for something that is essentially useless to you.

 

[tlarkin]

Maybe overpriced was the wrong word but you get what you pay for regardless of whether you will ever want it and whatever you don't use is wasted and you paid for something that is essentially useless to you.

Correct, it is just like buying a luxury car, you pay more for all the luxuries, even the ones who don't use. I however, like these luxuries and use them with my Mac. I sync all my cell phone contacts so if my phone is lost, stolen, or broken and I get a new one I can sync them all back.

I love to see those posts on myspace and face book about people losing their cell phones and all the numbers and they post on there to get your number again. So, to me BT is very useful. I also use it to file transfer files back and forth from my blackberry to my laptop. I also use my laptop to control my cell phone.

ABGN wireless is nice because I get to connect to any type of radio signal.

The LED back lit screen is nice because it looks just as sharp and consumes a bit less power and contains no mercury in it.

The SMS sensor is very nice and there are applications that utilize the technology.

The back lit keyboard and multi touch track pad are a must for me as well. I find myself using the multi touch gestures on every PC laptop I touch now, and wish that every computer had that.

I would bet you $100 that after you had 6 months of actually using OS X on a macbook Pro you would find a use for all those features and enjoy them.

While, I am not saying that the Mac is right for you or for everyone but lets be honest here. They aren't over priced and most people that don't like them have never used them past a bit or here and there, or they think all Apple fan boys are elitist, but then again so are the PC guys/gals too.

I personally could care less what you use, but over the years I prefer Unix and OS X is a great Unix-based OS in my opinion.

 

[gamerman4]

Correct, it is just like buying a luxury car, you pay more for all the luxuries, even the ones who don't use. I however, like these luxuries and use them with my Mac. I sync all my cell phone contacts so if my phone is lost, stolen, or broken and I get a new one I can sync them all back.

I love to see those posts on myspace and face book about people losing their cell phones and all the numbers and they post on there to get your number again. So, to me BT is very useful. I also use it to file transfer files back and forth from my blackberry to my laptop. I also use my laptop to control my cell phone.

ABGN wireless is nice because I get to connect to any type of radio signal.

The LED back lit screen is nice because it looks just as sharp and consumes a bit less power and contains no mercury in it.

The SMS sensor is very nice and there are applications that utilize the technology.

The back lit keyboard and multi touch track pad are a must for me as well. I find myself using the multi touch gestures on every PC laptop I touch now, and wish that every computer had that.

I would bet you $100 that after you had 6 months of actually using OS X on a macbook Pro you would find a use for all those features and enjoy them.

While, I am not saying that the Mac is right for you or for everyone but lets be honest here. They aren't over priced and most people that don't like them have never used them past a bit or here and there, or they think all Apple fan boys are elitist, but then again so are the PC guys/gals too.

I personally could care less what you use, but over the years I prefer Unix and OS X is a great Unix-based OS in my opinion.

I have used a mac for more than 6 months and found nothing that would put it above any other machine. When it comes down to it, the capabilities of the machine are limited to the OS and for me OSX doesn't have an alternative that can touch the open source multimedia capabilities of ffshow, avisynth, and MPC which is what I mainly use my computer for, i guess different strokes for different folks, eh? Some people might find a use in OSX that can't be done with Windows or vice verse, it doesn't matter as long as you can do what you want with what you have. I just happen to like my machine tailored for me rather than for everyone else.

 

[tlarkin]

I have used a mac for more than 6 months and found nothing that would put it above any other machine. When it comes down to it, the capabilities of the machine are limited to the OS and for me OSX doesn't have an alternative that can touch the open source multimedia capabilities of ffshow, avisynth, and MPC which is what I mainly use my computer for, i guess different strokes for different folks, eh? Some people might find a use in OSX that can't be done with Windows or vice verse, it doesn't matter as long as you can do what you want with what you have. I just happen to like my machine tailored for me rather than for everyone else.

I have yet to find an application or an alternative that a Mac can't run. I am willing to bet you never used X11 and tried to compile Unix applications on OS X or even looked at a packaged manager called Fink.

There is so much open source software out there you can run on OS X, and a lot of times it is because the user just does not know how to do that kind or stuff, or they don't even know it exists.

 

[gamerman4]

I have yet to find an application or an alternative that a Mac can't run. I am willing to bet you never used X11 and tried to compile Unix applications on OS X or even looked at a packaged manager called Fink.

There is so much open source software out there you can run on OS X, and a lot of times it is because the user just does not know how to do that kind or stuff, or they don't even know it exists.

wtf?!?! I didn't say you can't run open source software. I said the specific programs ffshow, avisynth, and MPC, which are so great and have no real equal on OSX yet. I just stated open source because they are open source which means free.

 

[Irishwhistle]

Is MAC OSX really that great? Never use it first hand myself.

Yes, it's awesome! Best OS ever in my opinion.

 

[tlarkin]

wtf?!?! I didn't say you can't run open source software. I said the specific programs ffshow, avisynth, and MPC, which are so great and have no real equal on OSX yet. I just stated open source because they are open source which means free.

Well, FWIW, there are some projects that have source which you can compile yourself for ffshow and avisynth that I found on google. It says it will run on BSD and OS X but it is not tested, so it may run and it may run badly or not at all.

However, what I did find looking it up, is that there is a strong final cut studio community that want those apps ported over to OS X. avisynth has its own project that is in development for OS X.

So, while they may not be available right now they most likely will in the near future.

I personally have tons of Linux packages installed on my Mac via Fink Commander, and they all for the most part work just like they would in Linux.

I also found several alternatives to what you had mentioned. I know you said those are your preferred apps and they sound like deal breakers to you, but maybe not to everyone.