intake/exhaust fans

ChrisLaX20

New Member
Hi all,

I don't have any problems with my computer, however my roomate does and I have a question about intake/exhaust fans on my computer.

I have 2 intake fans in the front below the hard drives on my computer, 2 on the side case, and none in the back. I have an extra fan sitting around I never installed, so I guess I am asking should I install it in the back as an exhaust fan?

Is it possible to have enough intake fans (like my case) that you just dont need exhaust fans and all the intake forces the excess air out the top? Thanks guys.

Chris
My Specs:
AMD 4000+ San Diego
ASUS A8N5X
Sapphire X800 Pro
Antec Truepower II 550W
2GB A-Data DDR 3200 RAM
Audigy 2 ZS
 
Actually, from my experience when I had a case with a fan controller on it, the temps went down most when I had the exaust fan on full blast and the intake fan very low. And usually, there's a trend where companies just put exaust fans and not intake. I don't know about your side fans, though... Though I never cared for those. They divert the flow of air...
 
Ok,

I have another question, thanks for the quick response on the first one. My roomates rig is this:

4000+ San Diego
ABIT mobo
Sapphire X800 Pro
500W PSU
1 GB RAM (not sure what brand, cheap though)
1 side fan, 1 top exhaust fan

During Gaming, his screen freezes up after a while, especially in HL2 and CS:S but it also happens in Age of Empires III, Civilization, etc. He has removed the side and put a huge (like 15") house fan on full blast and it works a little while longer, but still freezes. So, he used ATI tool and underclocked his video card and made the video card fan run at 100% all the time. Worked still a little more, yet inevitably froze. I have same video card overclocked and it works like a charm, I am extremely satisfied with it. It is strange because we have exact same systems but mobo, RAM, psu, and he has a cracked version of XP, mine is an OEM home version. I think it is his XP causing these crashes, or cheap PSU. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Chris
 
If you could tell us the temps of his CPU and GPU, it would help out alot. You can use SpeedFan for the CPU/System and ATI Tool for the video card.

I dont care for side fans either, since they interfere with the air flow. Ideally you should have intake on the front, and exhaust on the back. This way clean cooler air comes in through the front, cools down the heated computer parts, and exhausts the hot air out the back. So in your circumstance, i would remove the side fan and install either one or two fans in the back of the case as exhaust fans.
 
nh_u12_case_airflow_1.jpg


Basically. Some cases have a blowhole (fan on top) that should be used as an exhaust (like a blowhole). A side panel fan is intake, test out if it does anything to drop temps, if not, remove it.
 
I agree with The_Other_One. I have fan controllers on my system with fans as follows:
2) 80mm intake fans in the lower front
1) 120mm intake on the side

1) 120mm exhaust in the rear
1) 80mm exhaust on the top

When I have more air flowing out than in, my idle case temps are around 73-74 F. When I turn the intake fans up, they seem to jump to around 76-77 F. I am running a Pentium D 805 2.66 Ghz OC'd to 3.8 Ghz and the highest temp my CPU reaches is about 59 C.

One more thing to consider, if your case has a waffle or some sort of perforated fan guard built into the case, cut or Dremel that out and install a regular wire type fan guard. It will greatly improve your airflow. Hope this helps.
 
Hello all. I live in Arizona where the temperature is often times quite hot. Using AC is not often times a suitable solution, as utility costs can be less than appreciated. Using fans for the most part is not suitable either for several reasons. First and most importantly, most computers do not offer a reasonable amount of airflow due to internal obstructions caused by hardware and wires. It simply does not matter much that there is a fan in front and in back, or one on the side as well due to such problems. Another problem is the idea that often times, the ambient air temperature is not enough to allow suitable thermal transfer to occure at the speeds at which the air is passing over the heated surfaces. There simply is not enough time to allow proper thermal transfer due to lower air pressures inside the case.
I have found that there is a suitable solution to computer system cooling that is less expensive than one might think. I am sure you are all familiar with those electric coolers you can purchase to keep a six-pack cold. They utilize a thermo-electric cooling system that is both economical to run, takes up relatively little space and works like a charm. Coolers such as this range in size from six-pack sized, all the way up to large coolers.
What a person can do, is basically turn their computer case into a dust free, sealed refrigerator. Don't waste time with fans. All they do is pump air in and out of the system, causing a great deal of dust to accumulate which further hinders cooling, not to mention the amount of time and difficulty keeping the computer components clean for efficient thermal transfer. Not only is component placement an air flow obstruction, but it also creates eddy current all over the place in the computer housing, which creates hot pockets that don't move anywhere, even though the air flow is present elsewhere.
What I plan to do, is to seal up the computer housing and install a thermo-electric cooler in the housing wall, just as it is mounted in the six-pack cooler. Turn the computer housing into a refrigerator! No air passes from the outside to the inside, so the interior always remains clean. All thermal transfer occurs directly inside the case where it comes into contact with the thermal plate mounted in the housing wall. The fan and heat sink are on the outside of the computer housing. It is a good idea to keep some moisture absorbing packets inside the case to absorb any moisture, preventing condensation on any components. Since the system is sealed, no more moisture can enter, so the inside stays dry. There are other details to doing such a mod, but for those who have an imagination, such things are easy to see and solve. RTV is a good solution for those who wish to seal wires that lead to the outside. Not only is it a good way to seal things up, but it is not permanent either. You can peel it off when you need to change things. Foam sheet about an inch thick can be used as insulation, etc. Has anyone tried this?
 
Thorn3 said:
(Thorn's really long POST Above)

Sounds like your talking about something similar to water cooling, or Phase-change cooling (Wich is how a freezer does it, more info). Although you have a good point, and these are real great ideals for cooling, the reason most people don't buy them is because it's too costly. I mean fans are crappier, but they still work fine.
 
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If you can properly build a computer you won't have "obstructions" caused by wires or mis-placed hardware. More than likely you are describing a manufactured computer that is just slapped together.

The cost of maintenance and replacing hardware for a water cooling system. peltier system, phase change system is enormouse compared to air cooling. A decent phase change setup can run you ~$600, other higher ned systems are upwards of $1000. Not many people are going to spend that much when they can just do some wire management and blow out there PC cases once every few months.

What will you do when you need to open the case again? Surely the case cannot stay closed forever, I mean unless you never plan to upgrade it and expect 0 problems from it until it dies (unlikely). You'd have to re-seal it and wait a good while before you start it back up, as opening it will allow moisture and dust and "normal" air to come in.

I live in Texas, it is usually ~90F-100F+ in the summer for weeks/months on end, and I can still maintain a 35C processor temperature from my computer with simple 80mm case fans. I use a solid copper heatsink and turbine/water wheel designed CPU fan, cost ~$40. I blow out my PC with a leaf blower about every 2 months to keep it dust free. Not sure why you would need something so expensive and maintenance heavy just to keep the PC cool...?
 
You can purchase a 'throw it in your car type' six pack cooler for 70 dollars. All the hardware needed to keep your computer as cold as a refrigerator are in the cooler. This is why I am saying it is no longer the expensive venture people think it is. If you go to a company to purchase the thermoelectric cooler parts, which incidentally can actually freeze your processor, as in less than 32 degrees F, you pay thousands of dollars. Buy a simple six-pack cooler, you know, for keeping soda cans cold and you only pay 70 dollars. Most people have basic, purchased at the store computers, so poor fluid dynamics is extremely common. It is uncommonly rare for people to engineer and build their own computer systems which includes the enclosure.
I am not referring to water cooled systems. Stricly thermoelectric cooling, which is basically a diode array on a chip. The theory of operation is far beyond what is practical to state here however. The cooling unit in a common electric cooler such as made by Coleman, is a single block unit. The heat exchanger plate goes on the inside of the computer enclosure wall. The heat sink and fan are on the outside. This means your entire computer enclosure will basically be a refrigerator. All it takes is to cut a hole in your enclosure wall, insert the cooling unit, seal up the enclosure, insulate it with cheap foam sheet and there you go. A lot easier than messing around with thermodynamics and fluid dynamics, which quite honestly most people can't do.
I write a lot because I am a mechanical engineer. It is my job to be reasonably detailed. A few lines here and there can't possibly explain anything in any usable detail. Right? : )
 
For those that want to cool only their processor, go here and get the thermoelectric chips. You can stack them one on top of the other to reach lower and lower temperatures. You can actually bring your chip down to freezing if you want.

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=775&type=store

Put one side on the processor directly, then put the heat sink and fan on top of it. Just don't hook it up wrong, or it will be a heater, not a cooler. They work both ways. A very basic comparison is like this: If you have a simple brush type DC motor and hook + to + and - to -, the motor goes in one direction. If you hook up the motor the other way around, the motor goes the other direction. It is the same with these chips. Hook them up one way and it will cool something. Hook it up the other way and it will make things warmer.
 
peltier devices. that's the solid state DC or AC, i forget, current coolers. Cheap, and if done right can drastically improve your cooling. researched it, i'm not in need as i'm only running a 600mhz overclock. +.10 on my Vcore hahahaha
 
What kind of enclosure are you fabricating, and how do you plan to seal it air tight to prevent moisture and dust?

Still seem like alot of work when a $40 HSF can keep you in the 20-40C region which is more than adequate for normal operation, provided your ambient temperature is ~70F.
 
I cooled the entire computer system because I do a lot more than just use normal computer hardware. I use heavy graphics, robot interface boards with high current outputs etc. Since most people don't have the electromechanical skills to do such things, I changed my statements to simply using thermoelectric chips directly on their processors. That after all seems to be the primary concern here.
Bottom line is, thermoelectrics will solve the problem without having to wonder about how to do it. It is so simple and cost effective that there is no longer any reason not to do it. Fans...qualilty fans, are not cheap. For the same price and a lot less headache, why not just use the chips?
This is how easy it can be. Purchase a chip. Use some thermal compound and stick it to the processor. Take the same heatsink and fan originally used on the processor, put some thermal compound on it and stick it to the thermal chip. Plug the chip and fan into the computer power supply. Done. The processor will be much colder with the thermal chip than without it. Problem solved. There are no questions, if's and's or but's. It is so simple it will make you wonder why you didn't do it before. Honestly there is no reason to debate this. Just try it. I have been designing complex systems for over 20 years now. Believe me when I say it will work just fine. That is why I opened my mouth in the first place. I know what I am talking about. If I thought it would be too much of a hassle or too expensive, I would not have mentioned it.
 
Thorn3 said:
I cooled the entire computer system because I do a lot more than just use normal computer hardware. I use heavy graphics, robot interface boards with high current outputs etc. Since most people don't have the electromechanical skills to do such things, I changed my statements to simply using thermoelectric chips directly on their processors. That after all seems to be the primary concern here.
Bottom line is, thermoelectrics will solve the problem without having to wonder about how to do it. It is so simple and cost effective that there is no longer any reason not to do it. Fans...qualilty fans, are not cheap. For the same price and a lot less headache, why not just use the chips?
This is how easy it can be. Purchase a chip. Use some thermal compound and stick it to the processor. Take the same heatsink and fan originally used on the processor, put some thermal compound on it and stick it to the thermal chip. Plug the chip and fan into the computer power supply. Done. The processor will be much colder with the thermal chip than without it. Problem solved. There are no questions, if's and's or but's. It is so simple it will make you wonder why you didn't do it before. Honestly there is no reason to debate this. Just try it. I have been designing complex systems for over 20 years now. Believe me when I say it will work just fine. That is why I opened my mouth in the first place. I know what I am talking about. If I thought it would be too much of a hassle or too expensive, I would not have mentioned it.

And what's complex about a fan? Plug it in, attach it, and it cools your hardware.

Are we talking about the same kind of processors? I'm talking about PC processors, that range from 1-2volts typically. Even when heavily overclocked, a standard consumer HSF like an Jet 7+ cooler will keep you in "safe" operating temperatures. It doesn't matter what kind of software you run on your computers, your load temp is your load temp. It's not going to get any hotter under load unless you start bumping up the voltages or change the ambient temp.

"heavy graphics" is a bit vague, and doesn't have anything to do with hardware. Looking at your hobbies I'm thinking you're describing some kind of CAD designing? "robot interface boards" is also vague, do you mean large circuit boards that generate alot of heat? If so, what are they doing inside your computer case? they should be in an external case that is well ventilated.

I'm questioning your methods and your claims. If you think we're too dumb here to understand what you are saying, it is because you are over simplifying it. You can go into greater detail as to the hardware and workign environment, you won't scare anyone away.

A simple question - What processor are you cooling? And what are your idle/load temps with a normal stock fan? I'm just trying to understand why a fan won't do the job...that's all.
 
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