Looking for a more powerful GPU for my computer.

CP30126

Member
Hi. My computer has an integrated Intel GMA X4500 GPU. It's a very good GPU, but it struggles with certain video games that I have. I found two affordable graphics cards on newegg.ca that look like they could work in my computer, if they don't draw too much current. One is a Veineda 6450 and the other is a Maxsun GT 710. I have never heard of these brands before. Are they good? According to techpowerup.com, the 6450 was designed by AMD, and the GT 710 was designed by Nvidia. Would these cards offer better performances than the GMA X4500 I am currently using? Which one is the most powerful?
 

beers

Moderator
Staff member
What games are you trying to play? All of those are pretty bottom-bin from a performance perspective in 3D environments.
 

johnb35

Administrator
Staff member
. I have never heard of these brands before. Are they good?
The reason why you haven't heard of those brands is because they are sold by third parties and to be honest, would never buy nonbrand name products.

Right now the gpu prices are inflated drastically, about double or more of what they should be. You will be spending a lot of money to get something decent if its even in stock.
 

CP30126

Member
Do you want to know my wishlist?

Midtown Madness 2 with maximum render distance without lag.
Half-Life 2 with model detail, water detail, texture detail, shadow detail, shader detail set to the highest at an high resolution (1024x768 minimum) with acceptable performances. I don't know what I consider acceptable performances... Maybe 30FPS minimum?
Terraria with minimal lag at an high resolution.
Minecraft with the graphics set to "Fancy" and render distance set to "Far". The "Fancy" graphics setting makes the leaf blocks have transparency instead of being opaque. I think it also did something to the grass blocks.

That's all I can think of at the moment.
More information about my computer: If I understand correctly right now my RAM is shared with the integrated GPU. The video cards I'm looking at have 2GB of memory, so my RAM would stop getting eaten up by the GPU. Also, it has a very powerful CPU, it's an Intel Pentium E6800 @ 3.33GHz if I remember correctly.
 

johnb35

Administrator
Staff member
Also, it has a very powerful CPU, it's an Intel Pentium E6800 @ 3.33GHz
Thats only a dual core cpu and no its not that powerful, in todays standards anyway. That cpu is 11 years old.

Those games are old and don't require much, the Gt710 is somewhat better then the 6450 but not sure if you'll reach your requirements with it.
 

CP30126

Member
So third-party cards are bad? I have a couple of third-party MDA (Monochrome Display Adapter) cards and I've never had a problem with any of them. I realize that they are much simpler circuits that were built decades ago though. I don't know if things have changed since then. So you think these are shoddy products being sold on newegg?
Right now the gpu prices are inflated drastically

Is that true? Why?
 

johnb35

Administrator
Staff member
So what happens that product dies within the warranty period and they won't honor it? There are some things you just don't buy from third parties.

The reason why they are so high right now is because of the crypto currency mining that started I think last year. You can Google it for yourself.
 

Intel_man

VIP Member
Having been on the shaft a few times before when it came to DOA products or faulty products within the warranty period... there's a very specific list of companies I would be doing business with. So 3rd party non AIC partners for GPUs is not something I'd entertain purchasing. Especially with how much GPUs cost nowadays.
 

beers

Moderator
Staff member
Also, it has a very powerful CPU, it's an Intel Pentium E6800 @ 3.33GHz
A lot of people only compare frequency. There's more to a CPU than that, how much work you do at a given frequency (IPC) is equally as important. That platform will hold you back on the new GPU side.

I probably wouldn't do much more than a 1030 or something for that build, MSRP for those is usually $80 but the current market as per @johnb35 is inflated so you'd be like +50% that.

Alternatively, rolling that same cost into a budget for a new computer would likely be more advantageous.
high resolution (1024x768 minimum)
High resolution these days is usually 4k ;)
 

CP30126

Member
I'm not afraid of the brand Maxsun, they seem legit and on their website you can see photos of their office. It looks pretty cool and they have all kinds of laboratory equipment. If they're skilled enough to know how to use that stuff and create a graphics card then why wouldn't you trust them? If you asked me to create a graphics card I would have NO CLUE what to do. To me all of those small things they solder on the board make absolutely no sense. But it makes sense to them, and to the computer. They are skilled.
But sadly I did not buy the Maxsun card. It's the seller I did not trust. Honestly they seemed pretty shady. Sorry but you had a lot of negative feedback, and why did you use multiple different accounts and different company names? Maybe you're an honest person, but at that price I decided not to take the risk and buy from a place where I was sure I'd receive the product. Because there isn't something more annoying than paying for an item and never receiving it. It's worse than receiving the wrong product, or receiving a dead one.

Thanks to you I read about the crypto-mining stuff. What's strange is that I'm pretty sure "mining" has been around for as long as cryptocurrencies have existed. I remember hearing about bitcoin mining like in 2012. It's strange that now in 2020 and 2021 there'd be a sudden increase in the practice so intense that it causes a significant increase in graphics cards prices.

--Now can you guys help me with the Zotac GT 710 card that I bought? When it is inserted the computer fails to boot. All it does is emit a long beep and a shorter one, repeatedly. It's an HP Pavilion p6820.
 

johnb35

Administrator
Staff member
Now can you guys help me with the Zotac GT 710 card that I bought? When it is inserted the computer fails to boot. All it does is emit a long beep and a shorter one, repeatedly. It's an HP Pavilion p6820.
Supposedly 1 long and 1 short beep represents a memory issue, which may mean its a video card issue. Have you tried removing and reinstalling the ram?
 

CP30126

Member
Sorry, I forgot to mention the very important fact that I tried it in another computer and it worked. I can try reinstalling the RAM but if there was an issue with it, would I be able to type this reply right now. There are two graphics cards that aren't mine that I could try in my computer to see what it does but as they aren't mine you understand why I am reluctant to try that. My power supply is rated 250W and the Zotac website does say that 300W is recommended. For some reason other vendors sometime recommend 250 instead... Maybe the Zotac card is very inefficient? And if the problem is that the PSU does not supply enough current for the card to be happy then why does it bother to spin up the drives? Does it choose to power the drives and the motherboard but specifically not the PCI Express x16 connector?
 
Last edited:

CP30126

Member
For a moment I thought the problem could be that my power supply has a 20-pin motherboard plug, I read online that they later added 4 pins to the connector to be able to power PCI Express x16 cards. But I tried the card with a 950W power supply (not mine unfortunately) and it worked, even with the 4 additional pins not connected. Because interestingly, my motherboard has a 24-pin power connector, but the stock power supply has a 20-pin plug.

With that "mystery" solved, here's the next problem I have with this card. The video feed looks horrible, and I think it's because of the resolution. It says it is set to 1280x960, which is the resolution I have been using for a while on this computer, but it's lying. The resolution looks like it is 1280x960 for sure, but my monitor says it is set to 1280x1024, and my monitor is incompatible with this resolution. It looks really bad and there's no way to adjust the monitor so that it looks good. 1280x960 is the highest it can handle. So please tell me how I can set the card to a real 1280x960, not this fake "1280x960 going through a 1280x1024 signal" stuff. In the configuration utility of the card there's a menu to create a custom resolution, and interestingly there's a section called "standard synchronization" and it is set to "automatic". While this setting grays out the following options, it does say "active pixels" and those are set to 1280x1024. But there are all kind of strange settings in this menu that I don't understand. Is there an easier way of fixing this issue without playing with those settings? The drivers I have installed were the latest I could find on Nvidia's website.
 
Last edited:

CP30126

Member
Another thing I've always found interesting about this power supply is that it doesn't have any SATA connectors, but the stock drives are SATA, so they used adapters. Hey, that's fine with me, I always found SATA connectors very annoying. I understand that it's supposedly a better interface, but they really did not have to change the power connection. It's the same 4 wires so why change something that had been in use since 1981? The PSU even has a 3 1/2 diskette drive connector, yet neither the motherboard or the case will let you install one.
What monitor and interface are you using?
Seanix 1770F monitor hooked up to the VGA port.
 

johnb35

Administrator
Staff member
Sounds like you need a newer power supply, the old standard just isn't cutting it for you.
 

beers

Moderator
Staff member
why change something that had been in use since 1981?
Why ever change anything with that mentality? How would you ever improve? ISA was a fine interface for a long time, who needs any of this PCI Express shenanigans? Who needs terabytes of storage anyway? Bring back the 5.25 floppy I say.

Another thing I've always found interesting about this power supply is that it doesn't have any SATA connectors
Why is that interesting? That PSU predates the SATA standard, how would it be designed into the product if it didn’t exist yet?
 

CP30126

Member
I agree that change is generally bad for human beings and most of the time throughout history it has been pushed by evil forces. "Improvement" is really good at creating ever-widening gaps between people so for whom does it "improve", is certainly a good question to ask. Not for everyone that's for sure.
That said, although the ISA bus did stuck around for long, you'll notice that computer manufacturers always tried to find alternatives to it as more powerful CPUs came around, as it was an evident bottleneck. For example, Olivetti created a proprietary 16-bit interface, backward-compatible with 8-bit ISA cards, for their 8086-equipped M24 model from 1983. They did it again in 1987 for their 386-equipped M380 series by creating extended 32-bit expansion slots. IBM came up with MCA, the "Gang of Nine" came up with EISA, during the 486-era, VLB showed up as a standardized 32-bit expansion bus for cheaper systems, and then there was PCI. So then, what was the point of replacing the power connector for drives? It's the same 4 wires, same gauge, it's just an annoyance.
Bring back the 5.25 floppy I say.
Totally agree. I'm still mourning the fact that they don't manufacture diskettes anymore, a fact that I wasn't aware of until last year actually. They were unarguably superior to flash drives in a lot of ways. Of course storage capacity was their big disadvantage, but they were infinitely more rewarding and satisfying to use. Seeing a light flash on a USB flash drive, really does not come close to using the mechanism of a diskette drive and hearing the sounds of the disc spinning and the R/W heads moving. We were given senses and intelligence that makes us sensible to beauty, and the stimuli we get from using a flash drive, pales in comparison to the stimuli we got when using diskette drives. Back when I still had some, I remember knowing where the computer was in its boot sequence just by listening to the sound of the diskette drive, try doing that with a flash drive... Ahhh good times.
Why is that interesting? That PSU predates the SATA standard
I never thought about that, but maybe you're right hahaha. I could not find a release date online, but it does appear that they have been making this power supply for years. I found a 2004 forum post mentioning it, it's a Bestec ATX-250-12Z... I briefly had an HP DC5100 and if I remember correctly it's power supply had SATA connectors, so it surprises me that my computer, which came out years after that one, has an older-styled PSU. That's why I find it interesting.

But I don't need help with my PSU, I know now that it's not powerful enough for the graphics card. I'm temporarily using a 950W unit so power is not an issue. I need help regarding the 1280x1024 signal that the card puts out despite me choosing 1280x960 in the settings, and that's a problem because my monitor is incompatible with 1280x1024 signals. Guess I'll have to mess with the advanced settings huh, but there's a real possibility that my monitor blows up if I make one mistake. Here's a screenshot of the menu I'm talking about: https://nvidia.custhelp.com/rnt/rnw/img/enduser/aid_759_05.png
 

beers

Moderator
Staff member
So then, what was the point of replacing the power connector for drives?
Eh, the new connector is smaller and applies to more items, laptop drives and desktop drives no longer have to have unique interfaces. Also this form factor more easily allowed hot swappability and has similar pinouts as SAS which are also downward compatible with SATA.

They were unarguably superior to flash drives in a lot of ways
Which ways specifically? Lower reliability, lower speed, lower capacity, larger form factor are the glaring downsides in my opinion.

I remember knowing where the computer was in its boot sequence just by listening to the sound of the diskette drive
I used to remember the dial-up negotiation sounds as a kid, so you could tell if you're syncing at 56700, 33600 or 28800 before the system indicated it. I'm glad humanity has advanced beyond that point.

Bestec ATX-250-12Z
Due to being lowish end when released and about 20 years old, kind of a clear indicator of issues. PSUs degrade over time, so it's relatively unsurprising that it could support the rest of the system but not the additional GPU load.

Here's a screenshot of the menu I'm talking about
QHD @ 165 Hz over VGA? You must obviously be having a laugh.
 

CP30126

Member
Hahaha sorry Mr. beers, I thought I wouldn't have to say that the screenshot wasn't mine, what with it being on Nvidia's official website which I obviously don't have access to. But to be fair, it could have been a forum attachment hosted on their server :)
 
Top