Macbook Pro vs. Macbook

Jet

Jet

VIP Member
Hey all!
Right now I'm at the point of buying a macbook or macbook pro. I can get a Macbook for $800, or a Macbook Pro for $1300. I'd probably upgrade the memory to 2GB. The main difference is the MBP has the X1600, while the plain MB has integrated. I don't have all sorts of money for this, I don't really want to spend much over $1000, because I don't want to have to put more of my earnings toward it. I might/probably will be using it for AutoCAD on Windows, so the graphics might be an issue...

:( Suggestions or Ideas?
 
Just have a look at some benchmarks comparing them both, the integrated graphics arent that bad but then again they are quite a way off even the x1600 so it just depends on how smoothy you want autocad to run? if you can afford then go for the macbookpro, you will definatley be able to run autocad quite nicely and play most games if you want to
 
I'd say get the macbook pro, for several reasons.

1) Ambient light sensor and back lit keyboard

2) better graphics card

3) higher spec'd machine

Also, most people when switching over to a Mac will find themselves using one more and more. Paying that extra 500 dollars will ensure that system will run good and strong for years to come.

Macs hold their resell value, and I can tell you they last longer. Tiger runs on the old G3s, some of which are 7 years old. try to find a 7 year old laptop that runs windows vista, it won't happen.
 
The only reason Tiger runs on the G3 is because it is written to be optimized by a select few PCs where Vista is targeted at MANY manafacturers, most who value performance, compatability, and lower prices, over the "Appealing" look of a mac (that might have been a bit harsh...). Beyond that, if you dont run Aero, Vista will run to some proficiency on some pretty supprising machines IE older UMPCs machines with bare minimums ETC. Wheras you can definately tell that you are using a G3 to run Tiger. Besides if you really want an os that will run on old machines look at Ubuntu Beryl that runs smooth on some pretty ancient PCs.

Beyond that I personally would get the Pro, way more futureproof and it is a way better looking PC... I also can type on those better than on the MacBooks, not by much, but enough.
 
CPTMuller said:
The only reason Tiger runs on the G3 is because it is written to be optimized by a select few PCs where Vista is targeted at MANY manafacturers, most who value performance, compatability, and lower prices, over the "Appealing" look of a mac (that might have been a bit harsh...). Beyond that, if you dont run Aero, Vista will run to some proficiency on some pretty supprising machines IE older UMPCs machines with bare minimums ETC. Wheras you can definately tell that you are using a G3 to run Tiger. Besides if you really want an os that will run on old machines look at Ubuntu Beryl that runs smooth on some pretty ancient PCs.

Beyond that I personally would get the Pro, way more futureproof and it is a way better looking PC... I also can type on those better than on the MacBooks, not by much, but enough.
Click to expand...

Thats my point, spending 400 dollars more now makes it even more future proof. See the initial cost of the machine is what everyone looks at, and well, to be honest it is not fair. Considering the support you get from apple (in last 8 years of my career apple has given awesome support) and how productive you are on the machine really should be considered. Afterall, time = money right?

Apple is a close platform system, so you get a higher quality machine, the trade off is you don't get all the third party options. That is the advantage of the PC, but the PC has way less quality control over what devs and hardware companies do. That is what you have to consider when weighing out the costs.

Also, sometimes it seems that Dells and HPs websites are misleading. It sometimes won't list the exact processor type and when you google it, you find out it was just a core duo, and not a core 2 duo. Where as apple, you pretty much always know exactly what you are getting.

So, there are obvious pros and cons of a PC over a Mac and vice versa. The problem is, no one sees it for what it is (well IMO) and instead they see it in dollar signs. Which a lot of times is not the right way to see how effective technology is in a true real use environment.
 
Well, in all honesty dell tech support isn't ALWAYS that bad. Beyond that I have never seen a misleading Dell/HP add as far as in print (not sure about the internet). Also Lenovo and several other PC makers make incredibly sturdy and nice looking machines, I personally would take a thinkpad over any macbook XXX even based on looks alone.
As far as tech support= money, I got a wireless replacement card, replacement MOBO and ram, and more recently the entire unit....

True there is quality control but NOBODY makes you buy a GQ laptop or one of the very fragile sony models for outdoor construction situations.... I personally need my laptop to do everything (game, Adobe photoshop/premiere elements, autocad, game, text edit...) this simply is NOT possible for a mac around the same price, itleast to the same caliber of performance that I command from my system. (1400$ 45+ frames with high settings 60+ on medium ETC)

Third party options HEAVILY outwiegh the lack thereof. I use a Zune, joystick, I used to use PC cards, looking into the expresscards... Which really dont have the same support on a mac. If macbookpro's offered much better spec's (graphics included) for the money I would have much tougher descision.
 
well if it is a tough notebook you want a construction or job site type environment I recommend getting one of the panasonic tough books:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/federal.asp

That laptop could ricochet bullets off of it!

I understand your fear of lack of third party support, and not to sound like an ahole elitist when I say this, but that opinion comes mostly from ignorance. I have a desktop PC at home for gaming, and it runs windows, and I use it to store a lot of my music, etc. I am not a big fan of itunes personally, but I am slowly ajusting to it. It lacks support for the open source lossless audio formats I like to use.

Well, you can run windows on a Mac, so applications and video games aren't even a barrier. Plus, almost every applications (minus video games) has either an open source or Mac alternative that will run in OS X.

Also, believe it or not, but a higher quality system means higher performance in everything, including video games. I bet if we took like BF2 and installed it on a leading PC laptop and on a Macbook Pro in the similar price range the performance would probably be almost equal. High quality motherboards, and high quality engineering make a lot of difference. Also, being a closed platform their developers are able to write software more optimized for their hardware configuration. Also, included in the more expensive package of a mac is built in Blue tooth 2.0, FW 800, isight web cam, back lit keyboard w/ ambient light sensor (adjusts screen brightness too), and built in A/B/G/Pre N wireless standard! If you added all those features to your cheaper PC, it would cost probably more than the Mac Book Pro. The problem is, maybe you don't want those features, and well you can't really take them off. People do not take that into consideration. So, if you didn't want any of those extra features then yeah, I can see you saying the mac is over priced, but I mean the back lit keyboard is freaking sweet, and the fact that my wifi card is A/B/G/Pre-N allows me to connect to any wifi network with the most compatibility. Bluetooth 2.0, didn't use it until I got a cell phone with bluetooth. Now I sync all my contacts and record and make custom ring tones and send them to my phone. If my phone ever died, and I got a new one, I could re-sync all of my contacts right back to my phone. Handy, built in feature of OS X.

Again, I am not an elitist by any means. I own, work with, and support windows I just think that a lot of people say these things about Mac with out even knowing what they are talking about. Thus, giving out and spreading mis-information.

Now, when I look at it, I compare what everything a mac can do out of the box with no additional costs, and then add up all the things the PC can do but with the additional cost of third party software/hardware really why not just get the mac in the first place?

As for desktops go, a Mac Pro is just overkill for me, and I don't like all in one machines, so I will probably always build my own PC for my personal desktops, but when it comes to laptops...Apple is one of the best IMO, and in my experience.
 
tlarkin said:
Well, you can run windows on a Mac, so applications and video games aren't even a barrier. Plus, almost every applications (minus video games) has either an open source or Mac alternative that will run in OS X.

Also, believe it or not, but a higher quality system means higher performance in everything, including video games. I bet if we took like BF2 and installed it on a leading PC laptop and on a Macbook Pro in the similar price range the performance would probably be almost equal. High quality motherboards, and high quality engineering make a lot of difference. Also, being a closed platform their developers are able to write software more optimized for their hardware configuration. Also, included in the more expensive package of a mac is built in Blue tooth 2.0, FW 800, isight web cam, back lit keyboard w/ ambient light sensor (adjusts screen brightness too), and built in A/B/G/Pre N wireless standard! If you added all those features to your cheaper PC, it would cost probably more than the Mac Book Pro. The problem is, maybe you don't want those features, and well you can't really take them off. People do not take that into consideration. So, if you didn't want any of those extra features then yeah, I can see you saying the mac is over priced, but I mean the back lit keyboard is freaking sweet, and the fact that my wifi card is A/B/G/Pre-N allows me to connect to any wifi network with the most compatibility. Bluetooth 2.0, didn't use it until I got a cell phone with bluetooth. Now I sync all my contacts and record and make custom ring tones and send them to my phone. If my phone ever died, and I got a new one, I could re-sync all of my contacts right back to my phone. Handy, built in feature of OS X.

Again, I am not an elitist by any means. I own, work with, and support windows I just think that a lot of people say these things about Mac with out even knowing what they are talking about. Thus, giving out and spreading mis-information.

Now, when I look at it, I compare what everything a mac can do out of the box with no additional costs, and then add up all the things the PC can do but with the additional cost of third party software/hardware really why not just get the mac in the first place?

As for desktops go, a Mac Pro is just overkill for me, and I don't like all in one machines, so I will probably always build my own PC for my personal desktops, but when it comes to laptops...Apple is one of the best IMO, and in my experience.
Click to expand...


2,174.00- Price of the most basic MBP with 2gigs of ram as the only default changed.

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7400 (2.16GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667 MHz FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM FREE Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium with 1GB of memory edit
LCD PANEL 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen UXGA Display with TrueLife™ edit
MEMORY 2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz edit
HARD DRIVE 120GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive edit
VIDEO CARD 256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7900 GS edit
SOUND OPTIONS Integrated Sound Blaster® Audigy™HD Software Edition

BATTERY OPTIONS 80 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery edit
WIRELESS CARDS Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N edit
BLUETOOTH OPTIONS Dell Wireless 355 Bluetooth Internal (2.0 + Enhanced Data Rate)
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor - Next Business Day*


Without a special Cupon 2100$

Link proving the GPU is better:http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=394&card2=453

Only thing the mac has better is core speed BUT the go 7900GS is a strong overclocker which means that you can get more performance out of it for the money. Also the screen is 1920 by 1200 and there is a 1 year in house warranty.


What makes you think that apple doesn't skimp on the motherboard though? I mean for the price I would sure hope they dont, but It does not seem like there is a whole lot of evidence to back that up.

Beyond that high quality parts do not increase performance at some point, they merely add reliability. In its own this is a strong arguement but it is definately not selling point considering the deifnite lack of performance relative to other components.
 
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okay so is that wifi card just pre-n/g or is it a/b/g/n? there is a difference

as for the motherboards go, apple designs and egineers the hardware themselves, so you can only assume they design it to run like a champ.

the macbook pro also has optical audio out and Firewire 800, both features not included in the Dell.

Also the ambient light sensor and back lit keyboard, not standard in a dell

macbook pro has a super drive standard, dvd-burner yours has a combo

those features right there are easily worth 200 or more dollars in retail hardware.

I won't argue about the video card though, the nvidia is better. I don't game on laptops though so its a non factor for me. I wish apple would offer notebooks with nvidia video cards in them, but they don't, at least not yet.

I guess you got a larger screen, thats a 17" right? Again, even though that is more screen for me that is too much for a laptop. 15" is max size I want. Apple also designs their own screens, I mean I know every person has drooled over a nice 30" apple cinema display, so you can't say they use crappy screens.

Dell, I think uses LG parts, which is standard, almost all LCDs are made with LG parts.

So now, tell me it is way over priced? Also, you can get third party ram cheaper than from Apple, that is what I did, my Macbook Pro has 2 gigs of RAM in it.
 
There is no draft N standard.

Firewire is only good for video editing, and the Dell supports 400 which is plenty for a laptop.

The backlit keyboard is a nice touch, but the light sensor is a bit eccentric.

What the hell is a super drive? All I can tell is that it is slot loading....

I do game on laptops and if you really like to game and are spending this much it is definately something to think about.

Larger screen= more real estate for editing, but thats a really big personal preference and cant be argued. Also I dont much like the Apple cinema display. For one it costs out the ass. Another it requires DVI dual link. It is only 1920 by 1200 and the competition (CHEAPER none the less) is 2650 by 1600. By no means do they use these in their laptops.

My dell laptop has a samsung screen with no dead pixels, not sure about what to think there.

If you want to get ram elsewhere it doesn't matter, same prices either way.
 
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I know about the draft N, but does the card in the dell also support A/B/G, most of the times they skimp out and only toss in a B/G card, but really you only do see A networks in the corporate or enterprise level. For example at my work, we run an A/B/G network and put different devices on different standards, all wireless palms run off the B network, and laptops run off the G, and other devices that may require more security run off of A for example. Maybe not a huge factor, but one to consider.

The ambient light sensor can be a bit of overkill I agree, but it is nice and you can program it to your likeness. The backlit keyboard is just amazing, and very helpful.

Super drive is what apple calls an all in one burner, DVD dual layer +/-, DVDRAM, cd, cdrw, dvd player, etc. It basically plays every type of dvd/cd media and burns it, with the exception of blu ray and HD DVD, I am sure apple is waiting until one takes hold before they toss those into their computers.

Firewire is faster, and more stable than USB, and it is a constant speed where as USB runs in bursts and has bottle necks and requires more CPU utilization. FW is more expensive to develope, so USB is more common, the MBP also has USB 2.0 on it of course, but it also has the option of FW or FW800, which is a nice feature to have. Also, macs have options like target mode booting and migration assistant and if you were to transfer everything from one mac to lets say your new one, FW800 would help a lot in that situation. It almost is a more macish technology, and yes you are correct it is used a lot in video editing. I own several external HDs which support both USB and FW, when I have the option to use FW I use it over USB every time.

Only the 30inch cinema displays requrie dual link dvi, probably because it draws power for the USB and the FW hubs that are in the display. The smaller ones do not.

So yes feature, OS, and software wise the Mac is a better deal. The downside is, if you don't want all those features you can not take them off to lower the price, and your choices of video cards is limited. However, they will have better quality control over their products. either way, it comes down to how you will use it and if you are more productive on the mac, then yeah get one.

Also, all macbooks and macbook pros come standard with a media center remote control that will control itunes, the dvd player, iphoto, and supports powerpoint and keynote, which is another added feature. I think I have used my remote twice though, once giving my boss a demo and once for a small training keynote I made, never the less it is something that is also included standard in the Mac package.
 
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