New Gaming Computer V2

S

So1dier

New Member
New Computer
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Operating System
Windows 7 Home Premium

Motherboard
ASRock M3A770DE AM3 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

Processor
AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor

Graphics Card
XFX HD-587X-ZNDC Radeon HD 5870 (Cypress XT) XXX Edition 1GB 256-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX

Memory
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory

Hard Drive
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Monitor
ASUS VW266H Black 25.5" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor

Power Supply
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power

Case
RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEB 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case

Keyboard
Razer Lycosa Mirror Special Edition

Mouse
Razer Orochi

Mouse pad
Razer Sphex

Headset
Sennheiser PC 350

Anti Static Wrist Wrap
CABLES UNLIMITED ACC-1400 Anti Static Wrist Strap With Grounding Wire
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Concerns:
-Is my monitor good for gaming? It doesn't tell the refresh rate.
-Is 4 GB RAM enough? Is duel channel kit good? If I add 1 more 2 GB stick will it still run efficiently considering it's not a tri channel motherboard? (I will be running a game, pandora(music in web browser or app), and frapsing(video recording)).
-Is the 750 watt supply enough to run the system.
-Should I try to get by with cheaper thermal glue, I just bought more expensive one just to be safe cause it says it keeps the processor 3-12 degrees celcius lower then others, and I want it to stay low cause I'm using the Heatsink it comes with.
-Will all my hardware fit in the mid tower case I chose?
-Does the case come with the fans or do I have to buy them? I can never tell.
-Will audio still sound amazing using the audio that comes on the motherboard? I'm spending $229 on a headset, so I want the audio to sound great. Will I need to buy a good sound card?



Thanks for everyone that replies,
-Josh
 
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I wouldnt waste my money on a 965BE, the 955BE is just as good and quite a bit cheaper and there is a good combo going with a 5870 at the moment:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.415564

Or, do what i would suggest, and wait for the 1055T to come back in stock:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103851

As far as mobo, i would spending more money on something better, this board supports x8/x8 crossfire, and has a new 8xx chipset;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157200

As far as sound card/headset...your better off with a better sound card and a decent quality headset over integrated sound and an expensive headset. For gaming, there are a few sound cards out there that have integrated headphone amplifiers which is preferable on higher impedance headphones such as those sennheisers....however, those don't come cheap. You are talking ~$200 for an Ht Omega Claro+ or an Asus Xonar ST/STX. Onboard audio is generally pretty rubbish.

I would recommend against that case TBH, it doesnt have the best build quality or airflow. I'd take a look at any of these:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146058
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112236
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146059
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119215 (One of the best value for money IMO)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119137

PSU: Nothing wrong with corsair whatsoever, but there are better power supplies on the market:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371026
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256035
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817176004 (Quite possibly the best value for money unit)


Spend an extra few dollars for this memory, definately worth it:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303

Don't buy artic silver, the paste that comes preapplied will work fine with the stock cooler. Otherwise, this is the thermal interface material that i would recommend:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150080

Although, for $17 for that large tube of AS5....spend a few bucks more and you can get a relatively decent cooler from xigmatek:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...5233014&cm_re=xigmatek-_-35-233-014-_-Product
 
RAM
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So what is the difference between the G-Skill memory you picked and the one I picked? Are you saying I should spend the few extra bucks to get the different type or to buy 8 GB's of ram instead of 4 GB's? I have gotten multiple replies saying people never use all 4 GB's of RAM, and that IS including Windows 7.

Also people in articles and on forum replies often say don't go value RAM, or don't go value RAM on an expensive build? What is value RAM and how do I know if I'm buying it or not? Was the one I chose value RAM and the one you chose not value RAM?



Video Card/PSU
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The reason I chose the video card I chose is because of the benchmarks and reviews from overclock3d. I knew that card would be reliable and it's pretty much the same price. I'd also like to stick with the 3.4 GHz processor cause I'm not into overclocking right now, and I don't want to spend the extra money on a quality heat sink so I can overclock properly/safely. I also don't think many of the games I play right now are going to take advantage of a hexa-core processor... maybe in the future, but by then I will probably end up buying a newer processor with a 32 nm or 22 nm process, which I'm guessing will be considerably faster, and is expected to be released as soon as 2011. I'm not even sure how nm improves performance but it must be important if Intel and AMD are working so hard to improve it.



Motherboard
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I'm not sure how your motherboard is better, other then if I get a hexa-core I might need it(which I don't think I will). Doesn't my board take advantage of all 16 channels on the pci-e 2.0 slot(green)? But you said yours uses 8x8 crossfire so it would only take advantage of 8 channels? Also mine naturally gives me the ability to use 1600 memory but you need to overclock to use that memory speed on yours?



Sound Card
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You are the first person to reply saying I would need a sound card to get quality audio from my Sennheiser headset. The first build I had used a sound card and everyone said the motherboard's audio is easily good enough. Not only that but you said it matters so much that it would be better to use a decent sound card with a mid quality headset, instead of using a Sennheiser with motherboard audio, so now I'm confused.

This was my first Motherboard.

It doesn't even say the type of audio chipset it uses. Just that it has 8 channels and people were saying it's perfect for audio. Every motherboard I could find uses 8 channels and only the very expensive ones have quality audio on the board. But mine uses VIA VT1708S audio chipset, I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But with you saying the opposite of what others were saying I'm starting to get confused.



PSU
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Like you said the one I have is fine, but there are "better" ones out there? I'm not sure if better is higher quality or cheaper, but the one that stood out was the Seventeam. It's very cheap, perfect wattage for what I thought I might need, and modular which is pretty cool. But still in the first build I chose a Rosewill and everyone told me it's not a quality brand and I should stay away from them. I've never heard of a Seventeam and I have a feeling it's an unpopular brand that I should stay away from.



Paste
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I'm getting rid of the paste if my cpu comes with paste pre-applied.



Case
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I'm looking into new cases, I think I found a good one.
 
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RAM/Memory:
The "blue" ripjaws are faster memory, lower CAS latency= faster.

Video Card:
That GPU is a 5870 as well(only real difference between manufacturers is cooling and sometimes PCB design), however the combo deal puts both of them together at a cost less than the cost of a 965 Black Edition and that 5870 you have chosen. The 1055T is quite a worthwhile upgrade over the 965 Black Edition, as you get for the same price two extra cores. A 600mhz difference between the processors is really not that much, as you can quite likely get 3.4Ghz out of the 1055T just on stock voltages.

Motherboard:
The AsRock M3A770DE motherboard you have chosen is generally speaking a very cheap board. It makes use of lots of electrolytic capacitors, when in Crossfire you only get x16/x4, which will bottleneck a second card by quite a bit if you do decide to run crossfire. In single card configuration, the PCI Express bus will run at a full X16 speed. The higher end asrock board i suggested has a much better overall design, 8+2 phase CPU VRM over the 4+1 Phase cpu vrm on that cheaper asrock. You also receive no heatsinks for the mosfet circuitry on the the cheaper asrock. In addition you also receive USB 3.0 on the more expensive board, which for external storage devices and such will become quite useful in the coming years.

Sound Card:
There are reasons that dedicated sound cards are sold. If you are planning on gaming or listening to higher quality music, a sound card improves the experience VASTLY. The onboard audio is basically "audio for the masses" using cheap computer speakers or cheap low impedance headphones. However, the sennheiser set you are looking at is quite high impedance, where a dedicated headphone amp is almost required for good sound quality. The onboard audio chipset will make use of a very cheap DAC chipset, do most audio functions via software, and make use of very cheap Operational Amplifiers(OpAmps).

PSU:
Seventeam has been in the server power supply market for ages, and are quite an established name. Unlike rosewill, which is a newegg house brand and rubbish. As an example, many higher end units such as those sold by silverstone(namely their 1200W units) were OEM'ed by seventeam.

Thermal Paste:
Ok, but you don't need to purchase a large syringe of the stuff, a one gram syringe of shin etsu G751 (masscool) is plenty for multiple applications.
 
Importance of Northbridge and Southbridge??? Quality PSU?

Alright, even though I'm trying to keep up with posts and updates as much as I can there is SOOOO much going on it's almost impossible to keep up. I'll update my final build later, but I'm going to ask a few last questions and hope you can answer it to help me decide what I'm going to get.

Seventeam Quality PSU? If so I can save money and get a modular PSU which is pretty nice.

What's the importance of the Northbridge and the Southbridge?
The motherboard I chose has an AMD 770 Northbridge and an AMD SB710 Southbridge. However, I can upgrade my motherboard to an AMD 870 Northbridge and an AMD SB850 Southbridge for about $40-$50 if its going to be worth it. This upgrade would also give me a USB 3.0 instead of USB 2.0.

This website gave me a formula of how fast your North Bridge should be to keep up with your CPU.
Northbridge Frequency (+/-200) = (CPU-Frequency * 2 ) / 3.15
Overclockers.com

I understand that this ratio is used for overclocking. However this still means if your Northbridge wasn't fast enough your processor would suffer. Is the Motherboard I chose with an AMD 770 Northbridge going to be able to keep up with an AMD Processor 3.4 GHz? Or should I upgrade to the Motherboard with an AMD 870 Northbridge and AMD SB850 Southbridge along with the USB 3.0.


Any recommendations on cases?
I have looked through a lot of cases and I can't choose, whenever I find one I like I read a review saying how much is sucks. I just need a case that will not interfere with my audio, it has enough room to fit all the hardware in, and it has good enough air flow to keep the system cool.


Again, thanks a lot for the help everyone. A few days ago I knew absolutely nothing about computers, and I've come a long way. I ready everyone's comments and have been taking my time to research based on your responses. I hope I'll get my final build up soon and be able to order it by next friday.

Later,
-Josh
 
So1dier said:
Alright, even though I'm trying to keep up with posts and updates as much as I can there is SOOOO much going on it's almost impossible to keep up. I'll update my final build later, but I'm going to ask a few last questions and hope you can answer it to help me decide what I'm going to get.

Seventeam Quality PSU? If so I can save money and get a modular PSU which is pretty nice.

What's the importance of the Northbridge and the Southbridge?
The motherboard I chose has an AMD 770 Northbridge and an AMD SB710 Southbridge. However, I can upgrade my motherboard to an AMD 870 Northbridge and an AMD SB850 Southbridge for about $40-$50 if its going to be worth it. This upgrade would also give me a USB 3.0 instead of USB 2.0.

This website gave me a formula of how fast your North Bridge should be to keep up with your CPU.
Northbridge Frequency (+/-200) = (CPU-Frequency * 2 ) / 3.15
Overclockers.com

I understand that this ratio is used for overclocking. However this still means if your Northbridge wasn't fast enough your processor would suffer. Is the Motherboard I chose with an AMD 770 Northbridge going to be able to keep up with an AMD Processor 3.4 GHz? Or should I upgrade to the Motherboard with an AMD 870 Northbridge and AMD SB850 Southbridge along with the USB 3.0.


Any recommendations on cases?
I have looked through a lot of cases and I can't choose, whenever I find one I like I read a review saying how much is sucks. I just need a case that will not interfere with my audio, it has enough room to fit all the hardware in, and it has good enough air flow to keep the system cool.


Again, thanks a lot for the help everyone. A few days ago I knew absolutely nothing about computers, and I've come a long way. I ready everyone's comments and have been taking my time to research based on your responses. I hope I'll get my final build up soon and be able to order it by next friday.

Later,
-Josh
Click to expand...
-Yes, seventeam is a quality power supply.

-The Northbridge and Southbridge are the chipset. The reason i would suggest an 880g based motherboard over the 870 chipset is the lack of any crossfireX support on the 870 chipset. The largest advantage to the 870 based boards is they are generally going to be higher end motherboard, with better capacitors, CPU VRM circuitry, SATA layouts, Overclocking Options, etc. These are some good 870 based boards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157198
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128443

And some good 880g based boards:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128444
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157191

-Northbridge frequency only matters for overclocking. The same base clock is used for all AM3 processors, and the speed of the processors is determined by its multiplier. When overclocking, you increase the base clock which in turn will increase the speed of the chipset frequency. Again, i Highly suggest against the 965 Black Edition, it just isnt worth it over a 955 Black Edition as they are the exact same CPU, just clocked 200mhz higher...and 200mhz is quite easily obtainable for most chips. Same goes with the Phenom II X6 1055T, 600mhz is quite a small overclock that the 1055T should easily be able to obtain, with all six cores then at 3.4Ghz, you effectively increase your total system processing power by around 50%.

- Check my post above, i recommended a few cases that are all good value for money.

Also, do not create another thread when asking the same question, i have deleted your other thread.
 
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yea ill agree...asrock makes a pretty pisspoor board...get a gigabyte one of the upper end 800 series chipsets like was explained...

and the 955 can be easily oced 400mhz on a board with minor vcore...heck mine is and the board is crap....i cant get it to 3.7ghz stable without going past 1.4v vcore :/
 
FuryRosewood said:
yea ill agree...asrock makes a pretty pisspoor board...get a gigabyte one of the upper end 800 series chipsets like was explained...

and the 955 can be easily oced 400mhz on a board with minor vcore...heck mine is and the board is crap....i cant get it to 3.7ghz stable without going past 1.4v vcore :/
Click to expand...

Actually most Asrock products are relatively nice, except their very cheap boards such as that 770.
 
If the upgrade is going to be worth it I'll upgrade, but it's hard to see how a board with 2 numbers changed (Northbridge and Southbridge) by 100 is going to be an worthwhile upgrade. ~$40 more and through all the gaming guides online no one mentions Northbridge or Southbridges being even somewhat important. I'm guessing upgrading for $40 is going to give me an increase of about .5 fps avg. considering even a huge upgrade from the 3.4 GHz AMD to an i7 3.0 GHz processor only increases performance by an avg of ~3 fps, and upgrading the motherboard for a Northbridge which no guides mention will only give you a fraction of that for a performance increase.

These are reviews and benchmarks from overclock3d.com.
 
So1dier said:
If the upgrade is going to be worth it I'll upgrade, but it's hard to see how a board with 2 numbers changed (Northbridge and Southbridge) by 100 is going to be an worthwhile upgrade. ~$40 more and through all the gaming guides online no one mentions Northbridge or Southbridges being even somewhat important. I'm guessing upgrading for $40 is going to give me an increase of about .5 fps avg. considering even a huge upgrade from the 3.4 GHz AMD to an i7 3.0 GHz processor only increases performance by an avg of ~3 fps, and upgrading the motherboard for a Northbridge which no guides mention will only give you a fraction of that for a performance increase.

These are reviews and benchmarks from overclock3d.com.
Click to expand...

Upgrading to a higher end motherboard will not affect FPS per se, however, many components do not directly affect framerates. A good example of this is the power supply, which will not affect performance in any way whatsoever, but buying a low quality one will cause lots of issues that can be anywhere from an unstable system to damaged components from poor ripple suppression. Benchmarks only tell half the story, if there was no reason to have a higher end motherboard, quite simply they wouldn't be sold, however, there is a reason to go with a higher end motherboard. As i have stated twice earlier, the CPU VRM circuitry(The circuitry that provides power to the CPU) is only a 4 phase design on that cheaper asrock board, which will provide relatively "dirty" power, while an 8 phase design(such as found on the 870 and 880g boards i linked) will provide quite a bit cleaner and more stable power, as well as allow for higher overclocks. Not to mention the additional features found on those boards, such as USB 3.0 and Sata III.

Also, when you say that there is only a 3fps difference between an i7 920 and a Phenom II X4, that is mainly due to the fact that current generation CPU's are somewhat bottlenecked by singlecard systems.
 
bomberboysk said:
Upgrading to a higher end motherboard will not affect FPS per se, however, many components do not directly affect framerates. A good example of this is the power supply, which will not affect performance in any way whatsoever, but buying a low quality one will cause lots of issues that can be anywhere from an unstable system to damaged components from poor ripple suppression. Benchmarks only tell half the story, if there was no reason to have a higher end motherboard, quite simply they wouldn't be sold, however, there is a reason to go with a higher end motherboard. As i have stated twice earlier, the CPU VRM circuitry(The circuitry that provides power to the CPU) is only a 4 phase design on that cheaper asrock board, which will provide relatively "dirty" power, while an 8 phase design(such as found on the 870 and 880g boards i linked) will provide quite a bit cleaner and more stable power, as well as allow for higher overclocks. Not to mention the additional features found on those boards, such as USB 3.0 and Sata III.

Also, when you say that there is only a 3fps difference between an i7 920 and a Phenom II X4, that is mainly due to the fact that current generation CPU's are somewhat bottlenecked by singlecard systems.
Click to expand...

Well 2 of the 4 boards you linked don't even support the memory I'm using. I looked at the manufacturing website and product specifications and I don't see anything saying the board uses a 4 phase or 8 phase design on the board. I know the boards that cost more have certain extra features but all of the extra features it has I won't be using. So how is the more expensive board higher quality if they don't even include why on the product specifications page?
 
So1dier said:
Well 2 of the 4 boards you linked don't even support the memory I'm using. I looked at the manufacturing website and product specifications and I don't see anything saying the board uses a 4 phase or 8 phase design on the board. I know the boards that cost more have certain extra features but all of the extra features it has I won't be using. So how is the more expensive board higher quality if they don't even include why on the product specifications page?
Click to expand...

Technically, No AM3 board on the market "supports" ddr3 1600mhz, as for one, the memory controller is integrated onto the cpu die, not the chipset of the motherboard. All you have to do is manually set the timings on the memory. Next, something else I forgot to mention is that ASRock boards only have a one year warranty, which is not something I would trust on a board filled with electrolytic capacitors. The higher end asrock boards only have a one year warranty as well, but make use of solid capacitors that have a rated lifetime I believe of 16 times that of electrolyctic's. And with the gigabyte boards, you get all that plus a 3 year warranty...as well as gigabyte's top notch support.

I cannot go and give specifics for every board I linked since I am on my palm pre at the moment, but I'll use the gigabyte 870A-UD3 as an example. Go to gigabyes product page, it will clearly state an 8+2 phase cpu vrm.
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=3430
 
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