Phenom II X4 965 questions.

Thanatos

Active Member
well, being 13 years old, it has taken me all summer to earn $200. :D. i must spend it, now! i want a newer and more powerful CPU. mine is the Athlon II X2 250. i need more cores. well, i found this baby. http://www.amazon.com/Phenom-Black-3-4Ghz-512KB-4000MHZ/dp/B002SRQ214/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1281211997&sr=1-1
it has all the power that i will need. but, will it work well in my computer? i have many questions, here they are:
1. Does my MoBo have an AM3 socket? The mobo is the ASUS M4A78-EM.
2. Does it need DDR3 ram? i have 4 gigs (2x2) of DDR2 ram.
3. Does it need A better PSU? mine is 500 watt.
4. Will all the cores be unlocked?
5. Is there an AMD processor that is better than this one but under $200?

alrighty, thats it. thanks.
 
1) yep you are good with the socket.
2) no it doesn't need to have ddr3 ram, it will support ddr2.
3) no, you should be fine with that psu.
4) all cores should be unlocked right out of the box.
5) i'd go with this and just overclock to the 965's specs (or go further, but that would need an aftermarket cooler). with the money you save plus maybe a little more you could get a better cooler and overclock it further than the 965 ;)
 
how exactly do i overclock a cpu? do i use the AMD Overdrive Software that came with my current motherboard?
 
+1 for the 955

however, if you aren't going to be upgrading anything else for a while and sticking with AM2+ and then skipping AM3 at the next upgrade, I would go for a 940 instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

which will again, OC to 965 levels easily to give the same performance, but will save money which can be spent elsewhere, preferably after market cooler if you wish to OC further. You will need to get a heatsink should you go for that chip, as it is OEM, which is the same as a retail chip, but without the box and heatsink. It is also AM2+, so not compatible with AM3 and DDR3 memory, which is why I say only get it if you will end up skipping AM3 to go to the next socket, which will be the later bulldozer chips probably late next year

=EDIT=

to overclock your CPU, do it through your BIOS. If you don't know how to, do not even bother until you have read up on it and know what you are doing, will just cause more problems
 
+1 for the 955

however, if you aren't going to be upgrading anything else for a while and sticking with AM2+ and then skipping AM3 at the next upgrade, I would go for a 940 instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103644

which will again, OC to 965 levels easily to give the same performance, but will save money which can be spent elsewhere, preferably after market cooler if you wish to OC further. You will need to get a heatsink should you go for that chip, as it is OEM, which is the same as a retail chip, but without the box and heatsink. It is also AM2+, so not compatible with AM3 and DDR3 memory, which is why I say only get it if you will end up skipping AM3 to go to the next socket, which will be the later bulldozer chips probably late next year

=EDIT=

to overclock your CPU, do it through your BIOS. If you don't know how to, do not even bother until you have read up on it and know what you are doing, will just cause more problems

yeah that would be a good way to go if you don't plan on upgrading at all soon, but if you do plan on upgrading to am3/ddr3, definitely go with the 955.

overclocking is pretty easy but like aastii said, don't do it until you are comfortable with it.
 
yeah, im always afraid of burning up my CPU if i OC it. i have my athlon x2 overclocked using the AMD OverDrive software that came with it. it just went up by about 15 mhz, though :( oh well. i think i will go with the 955. thanks, guys. this is why i love computer forum. i dont like to tamper with BIOS too much, but i will read up on it. thanks!
 
Don't go with the 940, it is NOT the same as a 955 or 965. First of all, the 955 will overclock WAY better being a C3 stepping, and run cooler. Second, the 940's only have a locked 1800mhz hyper transport speed not 2000mhz like the 955 (which can also be clocked up to 2600mhz)
 
yeah, im always afraid of burning up my CPU if i OC it. i have my athlon x2 overclocked using the AMD OverDrive software that came with it. it just went up by about 15 mhz, though :( oh well. i think i will go with the 955. thanks, guys. this is why i love computer forum. i dont like to tamper with BIOS too much, but i will read up on it. thanks!

Unless you aren't monitoring your temperatures and you let your chip get too hot, or go and whack your voltages to very high values, you won't be frying your chip any time soon

Don't go with the 940, it is NOT the same as a 955 or 965. First of all, the 955 will overclock WAY better being a C3 stepping, and run cooler. Second, the 940's only have a locked 1800mhz hyper transport speed not 2000mhz like the 955 (which can also be clocked up to 2600mhz)

Of course it isn't the same, but as it is ~$60 cheaper than a 955 and a hell of an upgrade over an athlon x2, and still able to handle anything you throw at it, and still able to overclock well enough why do you NEED great overclockability and slightly faster hyper transport? Show me an average user application that will benefit immensely from those features, by which I mean one that is worth spending an extra 50%, other than those that are into benchmarks, which OP clearly isn't
 
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Of course it isn't the same, but as it is ~$60 cheaper than a 955 and a hell of an upgrade over an athlon x2, and still able to handle anything you throw at it, and still able to overclock well enough why do you NEED great overclockability and slightly faster hyper transport? Show me an average user application that will benefit immensely from those features, by which I mean one that is worth spending an extra 50%, other than those that are into benchmarks, which OP clearly isn't


The 955 C3 is $34 more than that 940, and it's a retail. The 955 comes with a half decent heatsink too, 4 copper heatpipes...and of course the 3 year warranty.

It's not all about speed either, C3's run cooler which means last longer. Probably something he's interested in for $34 more.
 
The 955 C3 is $34 more than that 940, and it's a retail. The 955 comes with a half decent heatsink too, 4 copper heatpipes...and of course the 3 year warranty.

It's not all about speed either, C3's run cooler which means last longer. Probably something he's interested in for $34 more.

I was referring to the original find of the 965 on amazon with the price difference. Even with $34 difference you can get a much better heatsink than the stock one.

As to C3's running cooler so lasting longer, I know you know a thing or two about computers and how ridiculous that claim is. You are right they run cooler (usually) so last longer, but say it makes a 2 year difference to life span, CPUs last how long, 12+ years on average. Please tell me who, today, with a fairly up to date computer, is running a Pentium MMX, Pentium II or Pentium III, which is technology from 10+ years ago? Technology is massively outdated before it dies, unless you use it incorrectly. And with the $34 difference, which could be spent on a better heatsink, that heat difference, wouldn't be, so there wouldn't be any difference what so ever

=EDIT=

I am not trying to say that the 940 is better than the 955 or 965, it obviously isn't (in benches), I am saying it isn't worth the price difference.I know when I was 13 that much money was a fair amount, I could do a hell of alot of stuff with that much. $34 might not sound too much now, but that ~£20 (cba doing the conversion, so it may be a bit off), I would not say no to saveing
 
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I was referring to the original find of the 965 on amazon with the price difference.

You were?

~$60 cheaper than a 955

^^


It's still a wiser choice to go with the 955. The heatsink is pretty darn good, I run my C3 555 at 4.2ghz on one with reasonable temps. Awhile (severl builds) ago I actually removed the aftermarket HSF and ran the 955 heatsink on my 550 unlocked to a quad at 3.8ghz 24/7, just for ease of removal plus the temps were fine. It's a good HSF.
Maybe he's not into overclocking now, but 1-2 years down the road the 955 is still gonna be a decent CPU and he may be interested in overclocking. At that point, he could get a newer better overclocking AM3 board and update while retaining the current CPU. He does not have that option with the 940.
And as mentioned, 3 year warranty on the 955. Should he choose to overclock 1 year down the road, frying the 940 and he'd be up the creek without a paddle. 955, no worries just RMA it. Just because he doesn't need the performance or warranty now, doesn't mean he won't 1 year from now.


He was gonna buy a 965 at $180, it's still saving him $20 to get a 955.
 
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by the way, what programs, exactly, would need ALL of the processing power that the 955 can give? all that is coming to mind is bioshock2 and crysis :)
 
A good compromise in this situation is the Phenom II X4 945, C3 stepping models overclock generally well.

What do you use your computer for, gaming? Or are you into image editing and such, if you are the 1055T isnt a bad option either.

Also, "technically" 87dtna, overclocking voids warranty, although its few and far between that it will be voided unless you specifically state you overclocked it.
 
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Intel is stricter than AMD, and I've RMA'd an I7 with black pin pads from frying a chip on DICE at 1.8v and 5ghz. I'm running that RMA replacement I7 now :D
 
You were?



^^


It's still a wiser choice to go with the 955. The heatsink is pretty darn good, I run my C3 555 at 4.2ghz on one with reasonable temps. Awhile (severl builds) ago I actually removed the aftermarket HSF and ran the 955 heatsink on my 550 unlocked to a quad at 3.8ghz 24/7, just for ease of removal plus the temps were fine. It's a good HSF.
Maybe he's not into overclocking now, but 1-2 years down the road the 955 is still gonna be a decent CPU and he may be interested in overclocking. At that point, he could get a newer better overclocking AM3 board and update while retaining the current CPU. He does not have that option with the 940.
And as mentioned, 3 year warranty on the 955. Should he choose to overclock 1 year down the road, frying the 940 and he'd be up the creek without a paddle. 955, no worries just RMA it. Just because he doesn't need the performance or warranty now, doesn't mean he won't 1 year from now.


He was gonna buy a 965 at $180, it's still saving him $20 to get a 955.

yes, I was.

And a dual core @ 4.2 is much different to a quad at those temps. As to it being unlocked @ 3.8, what sort of temps are we looing at? Temps were fine, does that mean they were just under the max, does it mean it was running extremely cool, does it mean it was fine unless it was under load? The stock HSF is alright, but still isn't all that seeing as a cheap aftermarket HSF will outperform it.

A year or 2 down the line near any quad is still going to be a good chip. Hex has only just come out and higher end quads are still just that, higher end, and Hex core don't have any kind of advantage until you start using multi threaded applications, of which there aren't many unless he is compiling or rendering. They can handle anything with ease, and in the same way a dual core can still handle anything, even if it isn't with fantastic performance any more most of the time, a quad will be doing so for a very good few years to come, especially with an AM2+ or AM3 chip as they are still the latest AMD has to offer, and with a high clocked CPU, which the 940 is, that future proofing will be ensured even more.

I mentioned if he isn't going to be upgrading to AM3, the 940 would be a decent choice, however as to whether the "advantages" of AM3 are justifiable, I still don't think that is the case either. That may sound hypocritical as I am on an AM3 system, but I did so for the future upgradability, which there is a chance there may not be after the first lot of Bulldozer chips are out (which again, will be enough for a long time to come). 2GB of mid range DDR2 memory will still play anything, and larger amounts will be enough for video/image rendering or compiling programs and DDR3 isn't lightyears ahead of DDR2 still at the moment. DDR2 will still be around and worthy of anything at all for years to come, hard drives won't be utilising SATA3 for a while yet (I mean hard drives, which are still the standard, not SSD's), USB3, again, there are so few devices that actually utilise it at the moment, of course it is new so that isn't surprising, but USB2 will still be around for a while longer.

If he were to go AM3 in the future, it would mean new motherboard and new memory, he would be able to sell his board, memory and CPU and get a bundle later on should he choose to, which will save him even more.

That brings about a thought though, another option, rather than just getting a CPU, would be to sell your memory, motherboard and CPU and put your money made and $200 into doing a full upgrade. DDR2 prices are about equal to DDR3, so that will near enough cancel out (you will get slightly less probably as it is used), your $200 will pay for your CPU, and the money you get for your board and CPU selling should be enough for a new motherboard too. It wouldn't give you much more performance than just getting a CPU, but would give upgrade paths in the future, and is another option. Say you make $130 off your motherboard, memory and CPU (you will most probably make more), that $330 is more than enough for an AM3 system with the 955

by the way, what programs, exactly, would need ALL of the processing power that the 955 can give? all that is coming to mind is bioshock2 and crysis :)

Neither of those would need it. Crysis is graphically intensive, you can max it on a decent dual core and a good video card. The only things that would max it would be benches or rendering, no game will max a good quad core CPU. With that said, I have had my CPU unlocked @ 3.0 struggle slightly with alot of stuff going on in ARMA II
 
The dude has not really said what he uses the computer for. With 200 bucks I'm not for sure if I would spend it on a processor or not. The X2 250 isnt the fastest around by any means, but its a decent processor.

Depending on what (kind) of 500W power supply he has, and since he is using onboard video I would go for a beter video card. You could get a 5830/460 with that. Even if his power supply is junk he still could go with something like a 5770 and a better quality 500W power supply for close to 200 bucks..
 
yes, I was.

And a dual core @ 4.2 is much different to a quad at those temps. As to it being unlocked @ 3.8, what sort of temps are we looing at? Temps were fine, does that mean they were just under the max, does it mean it was running extremely cool, does it mean it was fine unless it was under load? The stock HSF is alright, but still isn't all that seeing as a cheap aftermarket HSF will outperform it.

Well you said 955, as I quoted.

Not really, the quad doesn't make a whole lot more heat. The C3 differences are astounding. At 3.8ghz my 555 maxes out at 35c on a stock 955 cooler.

The 550 unlocked to 3.8 would hit ~55-58c at full load and ~40c idle, but bear in mind it was a C2 and took 1.525 Vcore to get 3.8ghz stable. A C3 955 runs 3.8ghz at 1.35-1.375 Vcore typically, way less heat. 100% load would not even hit 45c most likely on the stock cooler. With a C3, you don't need much extra voltage to hit 3.8ghz which really keeps the heat down. If you are using your 720 as comparison, you are WAY off. The 940 would indeed run as hot or hotter than your 720, the 955 is way different.
 
The dude has not really said what he uses the computer for. With 200 bucks I'm not for sure if I would spend it on a processor or not. The X2 250 isnt the fastest around by any means, but its a decent processor.

Depending on what (kind) of 500W power supply he has, and since he is using onboard video I would go for a beter video card. You could get a 5830/460 with that. Even if his power supply is junk he still could go with something like a 5770 and a better quality 500W power supply for close to 200 bucks..
well, it has been tough for me to decide on what to upgrade. you're right, my video card sucks, but so does my monitor. and i would like to get windows 7, but i am still convinced that XP is the best OS ever made. i use my comp. for mainly internet and the occasional python and ruby programming. i have steam installed and i play portal and bioshock alot, but bioshock is SO SLOW! i almost cant play it on my system. so far, buying a new video card is looking like a good idea, but i dunno. my PSU is the Antec Earthwatts 500w.
 
Well you said 955, as I quoted.

Not really, the quad doesn't make a whole lot more heat. The C3 differences are astounding. At 3.8ghz my 555 maxes out at 35c on a stock 955 cooler.

The 550 unlocked to 3.8 would hit ~55-58c at full load and ~40c idle, but bear in mind it was a C2 and took 1.525 Vcore to get 3.8ghz stable. A C3 955 runs 3.8ghz at 1.35-1.375 Vcore typically, way less heat. 100% load would not even hit 45c most likely on the stock cooler. With a C3, you don't need much extra voltage to hit 3.8ghz which really keeps the heat down. If you are using your 720 as comparison, you are WAY off. The 940 would indeed run as hot or hotter than your 720, the 955 is way different.

Well I was using the price difference of the 965 to the 940, that was ~$60, as you quoted ;). The time I was posting was early morning, I think I can be let off for a slight error that has nothing to do with the discussion what so ever.

I'm not just using my 720 as a comparison, I've used 955's with both C2 and C3 stepping. Granted, I didn't get a chance to OC the C2 one, but yes, you are right the temperatures and overclockability are better (That is comparing it to my C2 720 with 4th core unlocked @3.2, same as a 955). That doesn't mean a single thing though as a quad core @ 3.0 will be able to play Bioshock and Portal and be used for programming Python and Ruby, so overclockability shouldn't be a selling point as it isn't needed. My parents use their computers just for the internet and office applications. If they had a spare £200 I wouldn't recomend them to get top end processors or video card or anything else like that, even if "they overclocked well" because it is a waste of money. Forget benchmarks for now, pretend they don't exist, what is the point of overclocking a 3.0GHz stock CPU? Sure, there is the challenge of it, which you would still get, and you can still learn how to overclock, so what is the big selling point? Other than for bragging rights to say you have done it, getting a quad core to 4.0 and beyond is completely pointless. For the temperatures, as I stated before, you know as well as me unless the temperatures are silly high, life time will not be effected, by which I mean the lifetime of the chip having a use for modern day applications. It will be obselete before it dies.


well, it has been tough for me to decide on what to upgrade. you're right, my video card sucks, but so does my monitor. and i would like to get windows 7, but i am still convinced that XP is the best OS ever made. i use my comp. for mainly internet and the occasional python and ruby programming. i have steam installed and i play portal and bioshock alot, but bioshock is SO SLOW! i almost cant play it on my system. so far, buying a new video card is looking like a good idea, but i dunno. my PSU is the Antec Earthwatts 500w.

It is lagging because of your graphics, not your CPU. Your CPU is fine to play those games, your integrated geraphics however isn't. Your PSU is enough to handle any card within your budget, so you shouldn't have to worry about that
 
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