Reloading OS (Issues... Suggestions? MBR??)

LauraKoz

New Member
Long post, so apologies in advance but I'll give you a play by play of what I've done so that hopefully you can offer some insight on how to resolve this issue.

Working on a HP Pavillion, pretty much stock, about 5 years old. Acquired a virus that didn't seem to be malicious in terms of deleting files, etc but it would reboot the machine every few minutes. Ended up formatting both drives and attempted to install XP Professional. It would start the setup, format the partition, copy the necessary files to the Windows Install folder, and then reboot as it should. However, upon rebooting, you would not be taken to the blue Windows screen where you begin to 'customize', instead, it was stuck in a circle and went back to restarting setup. It was *not* booting off the CD, setup was just not happening.

Thought perhaps BIOS had issues or the motherboard was on the way out so I found another PC to work with (Sony) and moved that hard drive onto my computer. It booted up perfectly and worked fine. To me, that says it's not my computer. So I purchased a new hard drive and attempted to load XP onto that with my machine. No go. Moved the new hard drive onto the other machine and attempted again. No go. Switched to the other hard drive I had (originally D) and tried to load XP on that on the other computer. No go.

I had a suspicion that perhaps my CD was a bit off so I acquired XP Home with the SP2. I first tried to load that onto the new hard drive in the other computer. I was able to get through the complete install (or so I thought/think), yet when I arrived at the Desktop, I was only allowed to "Turn Off" or "Reboot" as "Standby" was grayed out. It reboots fine, but it cannot boot from the hard drive after it is powered off. It asks for a boot device. I tried this CD with both of my hard drives on both of the computers, same result.

This is where it goes above my head as I am unable to narrow down to where the problem is. The latest suggestion that I was given was issues with the Master Boot Record, that somehow it was turned off. I will be acquiring software to deal with that in the next few days, however, I was hoping that some of you may have some other insight.

I don't want to spend a few hundred dollars to have someone 'fix' this when I could easily buy another low end computer, but frankly, I don't have the money to buy either a new computer or pay someone to fix this. And honestly, it's just frustrating to think of paying someone to look at this when it doesn't seem (logically) to me that there should be a problem. I can handle a nasty file killing virus that destroys something beyond my ability to fix, but this, no-- (not sure if that made any sense).

Congrats if you've made it to the end of this. I would appreciate any and all suggestions (oh, and sympathy is also welcomed) :D
 

PC eye

banned
How about a few notes taken along the way to simply things a little? Let's start with...
1)virus strikes 5yr. old HP system.
2)problems with new installation of XP Pro after cleaning 2 HDs.
3)Tried installing Home version to see similar problems on second system.
4)the mbr isn't "turned off or on" for that matter. It is created by the Windows installer.

1)Once you wiped the two drives in the HP you failed to set the primary you installed XP Pro on as the first in the boot order so Windows could complete the installation.
2)combined with answer #1
3)sounds like the boot order wasn't set correctly for the second system as well.
4)Besides the mbr the jumper settings on the drives depending on which ide connector they are plugged into(end or middle) will have a direct bearing on where the drive(s) will load Windows. If you are not seeing the drives listed on the post screen provided the HP or other logo is disabled in the bios that suggests setting drive on end connector to master; drive on middle connector to slave or maybe cable select if still not seen.

5) is even better since this is an answer to a question not asked that well. With either XP installation disk in the cd or dvd drive used, depending on which version is installed to the drive that is mastered and on which of the two effected systems, boot from the cd and choose the "press R to repair current installation" to get to the recovery console.

6)Once at the Recovery Console's command prompt there are two commands for seeing a new mbr and boot sector information written. Fixboot and Fixmbr are typed in there followed by pressing the enter after each one where you will be prompted to answer yes or no for the new mbr to be written.
 

LauraKoz

New Member
Alright, forgive but you'll have to go slow with me ;)

Let me see if I understand you correctly:
1/2) 'Setting the primary' has to do with the MBR? I was under the assumption that Windows took care of this while setting up/installing but there were occasions where it could be affected and would have to be 'fixed' later on.

3) Boot order in terms of...? Are we back to 'setting the primary'?

4) I tried various connections with the jumpers and IDE cables 'just for the heck of it' without much success. But getting into BIOS to 'check things out' is beyond me at this point in time. If necessary, please give me a quick demo and I'd be happy to do so if it helps with understanding the situation.

5/6) Having some issues comprehending due to a) my lack of knowledge and b) the run on sentence. Not sure if I'm grasping the first part, but I do see that you're suggesting to use the 'Repair' option to attempt to fix any possible issues with the MBR. Yes?

I shall try that first thing tomorrow as it requires disconnecting this PC and transferring all the wires, etc over. Good fun...
 

PC eye

banned
The first thing you can try is referring to the user manual or owner's manual fi you still have it for instructions there on the bios settings. If you lost the manual post the model number here and I generally go through numbers at HP's support site pretty fast.

The main thing to try even with two drives in the HP at this time is 1)setup one drive for now. 2) inspect or try a different ide primary cable there. The system is as you mentioned 5yrs, old. The flat ribbon type cables are notorious for getting dryed out and stiff as well as losing conductivity at times. I use the Antec Cobra round cables here for the $10-12 tab and see good results.

The "boot order" or "boot devices" section is what to look for when in the bios setup program. On most systems pressing the DEL key when first powering up the system unless another key is designated will bring you right into the bios. Once there assign cd rom as the first and ide hard drive as #2. You are now ready to exit and save these settings by pressing the F10 key or pressing the ESC key to go over to the "exit and save" option. The system will then reboot itself upon exit.

Once you see the option to "press any key to boot from cd" message you are ready to boot from the correct XP disk and later enter the product as if you were about to install Windows. But you will now be choosing the "press R now" option to reach the recovery console. Once there simply type in the two commands to insure the mbr is fresh. The model number will also be needed to see if the necessary drivers for the system board are still available.
 

PC eye

banned
If you do manage to repair or replace the mbr on one drive remember to set that drive as the first boot device or assign hard drive first if you no longer the prompt to boot from the optical drive. On many newer boards the option to press the F8 key for a boot menu takes care of even having the cd rom option even set in the bios boot order. You simply choose the hard drive to set at the default boot device.
 

LauraKoz

New Member
Well, I used the 'fixboot' and problem solved in terms of completing the install and getting it up and working. Everything is fine, however, it can't see the other hard drive. The pins are set to slave and the cables are good, hooked up, etc. Any ideas on that?
 

PC eye

banned
I ran into this on the case here before going with two 250gb drives where suddenly the old 120gb still being used for a 98SE/Linux dual boot there simply wasn't seen one day when replacing the old 40gb primary with a new XP OSed 250gb WD model. The simple solution at the rime was to set the 120gb to the cable select position rather then slave.

On prebuilt systems you can even find the single or primary drive set this way. It's common for those since the companies service their machines were a tech simply drops in a new drive and doesn't worry. Drives are shipped in the cable select position as a rule. This applies only to ide not sata drives.

With XP another common tip is first go into the "Control Panel>Administrative Tools>Computer Management>Storage>Disk Management" to see if the second drive is being seen there. If it is your next step is to go into the device manager and open the "DISK DRIVES" section there and choose the unseen drive from the list. You simply right click on it and choose the uninstall option to remove it and restart the system. Once the new hardware found wizard appears have Windows perform the automatic search and install it's own ide drivers. You should then be able to go into Windows Explorer and plainly see a D or other letter hard drive then.

The screen shot here shows the slight change in appearance when first right clicking on the MyComputer or in Vista Computer icon and choosing the device manager. The identical looking DM however is still seen there.

 

LauraKoz

New Member
Well, it's not in the disk manager either... :(

"The simple solution at the rime was to set the 120gb to the cable select position rather then slave."

Could you explain that a bit more? Do you think I'd have a chance doing this or--?
 

PC eye

banned
If you already have a working partition on the second drive you can try the cable select position to see if it then appears in the Disk Management tool. With the logo disabled in the advanced chipset section of the bios not knowing if this is the HP or the other one you didn't name the onscreen logo is removed for the black screen with text coming up.

That text alos shows the drives installed on the system by make, model number, and type. If the drive is seen there you know that the setting is correct. It then should be found in the disk management. If it needs to be reformatted or even partitioned you'll then know when the dm tool shows "unallocated drive space". You'll have to excuse a slight typo with time instead of "rime" earlier.

Once you see the drive listed in the ppst screen or disk management you will know then that the drive is still working. By right clicking on the drive there you can choose the reformat option at that time and then try copying some files to it. If that goes well then you will know it wasn't a hardware problem. Some information on the other system could be useful if you are trying this with that one and not the HP model.
 

LauraKoz

New Member
Alright, let's see...

It does not show up in BIOS. I changed the pin settings around and even tried for the auto-detect but whenever I did, it couldn't find the slave or the master. When I rebooted and checked BIOS the first time, my options were as follows: 'User type HDD' or 'Other Atapi device' in addition to the usual CD-ROM, etc.
 

PC eye

banned
Another thing to consider on an older system with a newer drive is the ide cable itself. On a system too old prior to ATA66 the cable would 40wire/40pin while the ATA66, 100, 133 cables are 40wire/80pin. That simplifies this by dividing one pin into two. Have you tried any other cable?

Now that besides a possible need for a new battery for the board. It is 5yrs. old with a 5yr. Lithium type battery common to hand held calculators and other electronics. If that is now too weak from age the cmos information that contains boot information along with the time and date is being lost. Total cost there $2-$3 for most likely a CR2032, 2032C, or LF1/2V commonly used or other number.

Besides a fresh battery consider a loss of bios information now being seen where you would have to update the bios if the same or newer update was found. That owuld be board related there. The last item is one worn drive bogging the other one down.
 

StrangleHold

Moderator
Staff member
while the ATA66, 100, 133 cables are 40wire/80pin. That simplifies this by dividing one pin into two. Have you tried any other cable?

No its not, its a 80 wire/ 40 pin cable. (Dividing one pin into two) thats the best one Ive heard you say yet:confused: ! You need to look around on google alittle more.
Hes changed around so many computer and drives he proably has the jumpers screwed up!
 
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PC eye

banned
No its not, its a 80 wire/ 40 pin cable. (Dividing one pin into two) thats the best one Ive heard you say yet:confused: ! You need to look around on google alittle more.
Hes changed around so many computer and drives he proably has the jumpers screwed up!

I knew you would come in and reverse things! :p You seem to forget I don't use Google. Besides a bad cable there are still a few things to look at there. The drives may both have to set to cable select. I've seen that on rare occasions in custom builds. But it still happens. A weak battery or need to correct a problem in bios with an update?
 

PC eye

banned
When two wires go to one pin it becomes obvious that each pin has become "dual purpose" or a simple common connection point. Do the math there.
 
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