Replacing graphics card

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Nice response and quality argument.

The 9500 is a lemon but the G92 core 8800GT/9600GT (same card) absolutely ass root the 9500. For $10!

May be better he could need only to spend $30 on a quality Corsair PSU such as this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

As boring as it is, until we remove the PSU from the equation he may end up with a fried new $60 9500 and a dead computer. He needs to borrow a PSU to eliminate that, but if working, the current PSU needs to provide at least 24A on the 12 V rail which it is very much unlikely to be able to do - swapping with a better PSU is free and will test this.

$30 for new quality PSU (30A on 12V rail btw) and keep gaming as you were... or

Time for a new computer, can we agree on that, because a new GPU needs a new PSU which needs a new case to fit it in. A 9500 will not go in there directly without a new PSU if you have any professional integrity.


*Edit*

My advice to the OP

1. Test under load or swap your PSU with a good quality one (400W) and see if you have graphical anomalies.

If Yes

2. Test GPU temp using speed fan: http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php under load

Too hot? (Fire Symbol on anything)? Increase fan speed using Catalyst. CPU hot? Reapply thermal paste and clear any dust using a tin of compressed air. Heat can also cause this graphical malfunction. IF all temps are good and you still have graphical issues, you need not only a new graphics card but a new PSU and possibly a Case to fit it in.

3. Choose a PSU such as the Corsair above that provides great value - $30

4. Choose a new PC case to fit a ATX PSU in (check this is required, i am assuming due to 90% of Dell's cases and psus being proprietary) - $100

5. Decide on your budget for a new GPU and save up. Second hand good 8800/9600GT's can be picked up for $100 USD or less.


My order of preference for upgrade:

First : $30 for a new PSU to play games with the current 7 series GeForce (assuming it is working)

Second: $200 for a new PSU and graphics card (8800GT http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NEW-NVIDIA-G...ViewItem&pt=AU_Components&hash=item45f2fbc915) that spanks and will play Crysis and any other game at that resolution. It will also draw the additional power from the PSU via the PCIe cable and is backwards compatiable with PCIe 1.1a or later, or

Last: $190 for a shit graphics card (9500) and the required new PSU - I would rather get a new computer than waste money on that POS

Take $100 off if your current PSU is ATX (i didn't check). If you keep your current computer you need this regardless: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

Is how i see it.
 
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Yes that corsair PSU is a nice deal.


Another thing, with a 9500gt, the Pentium 4 is the next bottleneck. I don't care if he puts in a GTX480 he's not going to be able to play any better or more games than with a 9500gt at 1280x1024 resolution. There's NO NEED to spend a penny more for a better graphics card than the 9500gt. A 9500gt can play any game that the rest of his PC can handle.
Also, where are you finding a 9600gt or 8800gt for $10 more? They are atleast $80-$90.

This 9500gt is $67 up front but $47 after MIR-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130501&cm_re=9500gt-_-14-130-501-_-Product

Yeah and one more thing...where are you coming up with this spec of 24a needed on the 12v rail? You are just pulling numbers out of your ass at this point because thats BS. I have a 300w PSU, such a cheap POS that came free with a $40 case I bought, has literally 12 amps on the single 12v rail and I used it once to power an AMD dual core rig with a 9400gt and had zero issues. So no you don't know everything there is to know about power supplies, you just think overkill is a necessity. For the setup listed in your sig you would only need a 500w PSU at the MOST, even thats overkill. You are just extreme overkill. I know plenty of people like you and all you do is give me a headache. I bet you also wouldn't think my 720w PSU is enough to power two overclocked 9800GX2's in quad SLI with an I7 860 overclocked to 4.8ghz....my setup was drawing atleast literally DOUBLE what yours does and my 720w PSU handled it no problem.

And since you think that an 8800gt and 9600gt are the same card, it's clear that you have a lack of hardware knowledge. There's no such thing as a G92 core 9600gt, they are G94 core's. A 9600gt is about 10% less performance than an 8800gt. I've owned about six 8800gt's and four 9600gt's.
 
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Just so you know, I have no idea what you guys are talking about for the most part. Well, that's not necessarily true, but let's assume that I don't. I would enjoy it if you both calmed down a bit and told me wtf I need to purchase. :D
 
I would say go with the item in your link and look to see what the specs are on the power supply as you'll need at least this.

Minimum of a 350 Watt power supply.
(Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 18 Amp Amps.)

Meaning you'll need at least a 350 watt unit with 18 amps on the 12v rail.
 
Darktan2112 said:
Just so you know, I have no idea what you guys are talking about for the most part. Well, that's not necessarily true, but let's assume that I don't. I would enjoy it if you both calmed down a bit and told me wtf I need to purchase. :D
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What he's saying is you need to replace your power supply. It's old, and degraded, and *may* even be the cause of your problems in the first place. It may not be the cause, but you should replace it because popping in the 9500gt is going to use more power and on an already old possibly dying power supply it make pop the power supply and take out other components with it.

So I looked and it appears your dell uses a standard ATX power supply, thats good. You need a good name brand PSU like this one-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371029


And THEN you can get the the 9500gt-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...0378&cm_re=evga_9500gt-_-14-130-378-_-Product

So you need to spend a little more because of having to get a new power supply, but it will be worth it.


His whole argument is saying not to get the 9500gt because you can get a stronger graphics card for not much more money. But there's no point in doing that because your pentium 4 CPU will be a bottleneck at that point. Also the fact that you only have 1gb of ram. A 9500gt is capable of playing any game that your CPU is capable of playing(with most modern games the CPU has almost as much of a role as the graphics card), and then some.
 
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Ok, that's what I thought; thanks everyone. I think I might as well grab the power supply too.

I should mention that I'm grabbing 2gb of RAM, too.
 
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The Antec I linked to is a superb deal. Only $20 after the mail in rebate, amazing price for a quality power supply. So you'll be spending $100 up front for the card and power supply, but you have $35 coming back to you from the mail in rebates so $65 for the graphics card and power supply, not bad at all and you got one hell of an upgrade on both accounts.
 
Show me where a 9500 can play 'any' game at that resolution. Bullshit.

The CPU being the bottleneck - Bullshit

The CPU being more important in games - Bullshit

Believe what you want Darktan. If you don't need the case, get the Antec PSu and a 9600GT at the very least. 9500 is a dog.
 
VIP member my ass....you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.

You put words in my mouth BIG time buddy. I did NOT say ANY game period, I said any game the rest of his PC could handle. There's a huge difference, learn to read. And I did NOT say the CPU was MORE important than the GPU. Wow you cannot read at all. I said with modern games SOMETIMES the CPU is ALMOST as important as the GPU. How you got that the CPU is more important than the GPU out of that is beyond me.

I've owned more hardware already than you will in your entire life most likely. I tried gaming with one of the strongest P4's there is overclocked to 4.5ghz. A cedar mill 65nm P4 631, with hyper threading and 2mb cache, and like I said at 4.5ghz on a P5Q-E motherboard (500x9) with a gtx285 and the CPU was STILL a bottleneck. I could not get more than 40 FPS playing COD WAW cpu pegged at 100% the entire time, popped in a E6750 at STOCK 2.4ghz clocks and bam 80+ FPS.

You also never mentioned the fact that he only has 1gb of ram, which is a huge bottleneck with gaming as well and may not allow him to play a lot of games anyway. Once again showing your lack of hardware knowledge.

As I said, I've owned a 9400gt with an Phenom II 550, and a 9500gt is similar but slightly stronger of course. I had no issues gaming at 1024x768 resolution even playing Crysis warhead. A pentium 4 cannot handle crysis at all, therefore there's no need to even contemplate whether a 9500gt can at 1280x1024.
 
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Fine, go with 87DTNA, beacuse he insults me therefore he's right. Pathetic. I'll unsubscribe to this, although 87, i was building computers when you were born.
 
Anyway the point is you are trying to get him to spend $40 more (actually $55 if you count the MIR on the 9500gt) on a card that he can't use the full potential of anyway and does not need.

BTW, you still gonna argue that a 9600gt and 8800gt are the same card? Pulling your foot out of your mouth yet?

When it comes to video cards and CPU's I've owned and tested the most on this site hands down by a mile. Thats not just being cocky, I'm just saying I know what I'm talking about because I've been there. You are simply guessing, and you are wrong.

bigfellla said:
Fine, go with 87DTNA, beacuse he insults me therefore he's right. Pathetic. I'll unsubscribe to this, although 87, i was building computers when you were born.
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Hahaha, in 1985 there were no computers that you could build yourself, and you were 8 years old. What a load of crap that statement is. You must have been tearing apart and putting your commodore 64 back togther thinking you were building a computer.

I can't help that you CLEARLY don't know hardware. You say that me calling you out on this is insulting....well....whatever man.
 
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87dtna said:
Hahaha, in 1985 there were no computers that you could build yourself, and you were 8 years old. What a load of crap that statement is. You must have been tearing apart and putting your commodore 64 back togther thinking you were building a computer.

I can't help that you CLEARLY don't know hardware. You say that me calling you out on this is insulting....well....whatever man.
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I was working on a BBC Micro model A at this time upgrading via soldering etc to Model B. Please don't be so bloody arrogant.

87dtna said:
BTW, you still gonna argue that a 9600gt and 8800gt are the same card? Pulling your foot out of your mouth yet?
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The 9600GT's chipset is "... codenamed G94, that's based on the same exact generation of technology and is fundamentally similar to the G92 (8800GT) in almost every way. ... they're pretty much the same thing." http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168

"So, given that G94 uses the same technology as G92 – you're probably wondering why the GeForce 9600 GT isn't a part of a the GeForce 8-series? – the reason they weren't was simply down to timing. " http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2008/02/21/g94_nvidia_geforce_9600_gt_graphics_card/2

In terms of the bottlenecking, I would like to see evidence for this as I have found examples such as (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/267578-33-4670-bottleneck) who has a very simliar system and installed a HD4670. After that he had terrible FPS and asked the question as to whether the pentium was the bottleneck. It was widely agreed that it could be until he put a HD5750.

"I swapped out my 4670 for a 5750, and am seeing 100+ FPS!!!! :-) The 5750 has 2x the stream processors as the 4670, so that makes sense. I just didn't buy high-end enough @ first. :-( "

I don't believe that CPU will be bottlenecked in many games, particularly ones that are more GPU intensive. I do believe however that the 9500 will bottleneck frequently in many games. This is why i belive that that the balance is out on your recommendation. You don't buy hardware for today, you need to also look into the future slightly. Core 2 platforms will make a very cheap upgrade for the OP soon and a 9500 will be terrible as it is pretty much equivalent to the 8600GT which is also crap.

The 8800GT can be picked up for less than $100, with the $30 PSU means that for $130 he gets a PSU and GPU that he can move to another computer in the future rather than half arsing it now. The 9500GT will essentially be a regrettable purcahse IMHO and is not worth the money.
 
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bigfellla said:
In terms of the bottlenecking, I would like to see evidence for this as I have found examples such as (http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/267578-33-4670-bottleneck) who has a very simliar system and installed a HD4670. After that he had terrible FPS and asked the question as to whether the pentium was the bottleneck. It was widely agreed that it could be until he put a HD5750.

"I swapped out my 4670 for a 5750, and am seeing 100+ FPS!!!! :-) The 5750 has 2x the stream processors as the 4670, so that makes sense. I just didn't buy high-end enough @ first. :-( "

I don't believe that CPU will be bottlenecked in many games, particularly ones that are more GPU intensive. I do believe however that the 9500 will bottleneck frequently in many games. This is why i belive that that the balance is out on your recommendation. You don't buy hardware for today, you need to also look into the future slightly. Core 2 platforms will make a very cheap upgrade for the OP soon and a 9500 will be terrible as it is pretty much equivalent to the 8600GT which is also crap.
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You can not read at ALL. Your link you posted as evidence is hilarious proof. The OP's name is ''seerwan'', and the guy you said upgrade from the 4670 to the 5750 is ''ghstinshll'' and he's running a Phenom II X4. The OP replaced his pentium 4 with an E5300, still running the 4670 and now-
Left 4 Dead 1 runs magnificently... so do many other games like H.A.W.X., COD MW2, NFS Carbon and Undercover are very good too
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If you read his OP, he was having trouble with those games with the P4. He never says what his new FPS with the 5300 is, only that those games are now playable.

I also fund it funny that you are now crapping all over the 4670 when it was your very first suggestion to the OP.

Here's what it boils down to....I know what I'm talking about based on personal experience with similar hardware, you are guessing and speculating and keep arguing with me putting your foot in your mouth. Seriously, are you going to stop yet? How many times do I have to prove you wrong? It's getting tiresome.

A pentium 4 IS in FACT a HUGE bottleneck is ALL modern games no matter what GPU you have your FPS WILL be low because of CPU bottlenecking.

And G92 VS G94, well duh of course they are the same generation and very similar. Similar doesn't mean the same. It has half the stream processors as a G92 core, so therefore calling them the same is WRONG no matter how close they are.
The 9500gt is a G96 core, and of the ''same generation'', yet it has half again the stream processors of the G94 so it's not the same.
 
bigfellla said:
I do not believe that the CPU will bottleneck the gaming experience at that low resolution enough to warrant a rubbish gpu purchase.
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You are wrong.

At lower resolution's, the CPU gets used more, so wrong again.

I'm argumentative because you can not read and giving me BS examples and time after time giving the OP FALSE information based on your own speculation and guessing when I've had real world experience with these components.
 
The 9600GT's chipset is "... they're pretty much the same thing." http://techreport.com/articles.x/14168 Im sorry but pretty much the same is basically umm... the same.

You need to chill out mate. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean you have to use be so arrogant and aggressive. I got a warning for using the word "bull*hit" in a previous post. How many warnings have you recieved, because unless there is a max of 20 per day, you should be banned.

The simple fact here without your ego penis measuring is that this is an old computer. If he doesn't notice any differences in the current system (although I think he would), he has a 8800GT/9600GT instead or a 9500GT (which is rubbish).

If I didn't know what I do and came to this forum, I would want several ideas, not just "...ive done everything, i know all..." attitude. There is merit in what I am saying, that is, a relatively higher value for longer, for little extra money. That is, the 8800GT in many cases more than twice as good whilst not being twice the cost.

Not everyone has the money to upgrade their systems at a whim. This guy clearly is looking to upgrade and I very much doubt he would be impressed if he buys a new mobo etc and may be a 19"WS monitor in 12 months and finds the 9500GT struggles. The 8800GT wont. This is my point. There may be better CPU's GPUs etc out there, but for the extra cash it is worth 'wasting' potential in a 8800GT than simply opting for a 9500GT which will suck.
 
I don't care what tech report says, one has 64 SP's one has 128...thats not the same.

I have not received any warnings in this thread, nor do I want to so I'm done listening to your uneducated guesses and speculation on things you don't know about.

You are ''book smart'' with computer tech, you only know what you read.
 
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