seriuos cooling systems

adam fulton

New Member
I have done a lot of research and have found that air is better than Liquid. Most say that is true some say it is not. The laws of thermal dynamics would suggest a long with the laws of physics that liquid should be far better than air cooling. I think I have the answer. When I look at liquid cooling systems they are very basic to what I thought they would be like. All it is a few tubes, a contact point for the CPU a radiator with a few fans on it. Now the liquid should pull more heat off the CPU (and what ever else you are liquid cooling) way more effectively, but the radiator only ends up pushing atmosphere temperature air against it. Therefor if your room is 90 degrees then the cooling will be lass effective than 70 degrees. Now that holds true for air cooling to. The line I am going for here is the liquid cooling is not at all what I thought it was.

I was thinking that was more like an air conditioner (for the simplest explanation.) In an air conditioner you have a few things going on, a high pressure (psi) pump circulates the coolant creating hot high psi liquid. The high psi you want for later but the high temp you don't, so the coolant goes through a condenser which cools the coolant but keeps it high psi. Next the cool high psi coolant goes through a smaller orifice than the line is, the high pressure is ejected through the orifice and turns the coolant to low psi vapor than since it goes from a high psi to a low psi the temperature goes way down. The smaller the orifice the cooler the coolant. Next the low psi cold coolant (in vapor form) goes through an evaporator which turns the vapor back to a liquid keeping it low psi and cold now a liquid instead of a vapor. This cold low psi part is what I thought the coolant would be as it cycles through the PC. This would significantly increase the performance of the cooling system.

This is however not how it is done and I could not find a system that does do this. Now you might say that is because the lines with get condensation this can be fixed with a drier which one of the things that a refrigerated trailer for semis would have along with a few other things. Bottom line it would be possible to create such a system for cooling PCs. However I have not found one, it might just be completely over kill to have such a system, but for OC/bragging rights (which is pretty much any PC worth more than 2,500$) it would be useful. If you could keep the CPU below freezing even while under heavy load you could OC a lot more (again pointless past a point.) I was just kind of surprised such a system does not exist at all (as far as I could find.)

I am going to be building a PC in the next few months just trying to get all the research and part I need to know how much I need to save. To add, is keeping your CPU at very low temps even increase performance? I am not taking about for OC just say a stock i7 where normal gaming temps are like 100c or what ever is normal. I do know that the lower the temp the lower the resistance but that be more towards -100f. I am just more expressing an idea that may or may not exist or could be or has been done. I really want that bragging right that I made such a cooling system but only if it is necessary and in this case for OC (skylake i7.)

I just feel like I have rambled enough. Any thoughts or ideas or whatever please share. I would at the very least like to know if I could make such a system would it keep a i7 6700k cool even if it is normal operating temps at a OC of +2-3? Because the 6700k is quad core I would think that OC it would be useful along with the GPUs which would also get the cooling. I am new to the world of Pc modifying and my knowledge is limited but I find that I learn thing very fast as long as I get good feedback on what I do and don't understand which is where forums come in handy. So any thoughts, ideas, or whatever feel free to share. yes I do tend to over explain and ramble.
 

Calin

Well-Known Member
What you probably saw was an AIO water cooler. They're pretty cheap compared to custom loops and some high end air coolers might beat the lower end AIOs. There is also the custom loop option, where you can buy all the components and put it together (Reservoir, pump, fans, fittings, fluid, tubing, radiator, waterblocks etc).
 

C4C

Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting a liquid nitrogen cooled PC? :p

Practical for overclocking record attempts, but not so much for the average home user.

Now Calin is onto something with the recommendation that you can make a custom loop and have multiple radiators running at the same time.
 

Intel_man

VIP Member
Not really sure what the OP is talking about. The cheap AIO's don't perform that well is mostly due to a few reasons (ie. Pump and radiator size being inadequate). You can keep a CPU below freezing, as @C4C has mentioned liquid nitro. Not practical, but definitely exists in the crazy dick measuring world of benchmarking nut jobs looking to beat world record numbers.

Ambient temperatures definitely play a role in the CPU temperatures regardless of liquid or air cooling. However, keep in mind that with a liquid cooling setup, you're more likely to have the radiator blowing hot air outside of the case, whereas with a typical air cooling unit mounted on the CPU, the air is being converted into hot air and exhausted within the case itself and have to rely on the case fans to remove the said hot air. That itself is a small difference, but it is there.

The line I am going for here is the liquid cooling is not at all what I thought it was.
That's because you're looking at the wrong area to compare your numbers with. Of course a cooler like the Noctua D15 is going to yield similar performance to a entry level or a mid level AIO system. But once you step a little further to the liquid cooling scene, you'll find yourself seeing performance gains that no air cooler can match. Most higher end AIO's with atleast a 240mm rad or a 360mm rad will start to pull away from air cooling systems.

To add, is keeping your CPU at very low temps even increase performance? I am not taking about for OC just say a stock i7 where normal gaming temps are like 100c or what ever is normal.
No. It will not. Normal gaming temps should not touch 100c on the CPU.
 

adam fulton

New Member
Are you suggesting a liquid nitrogen cooled PC?

No not all. I want to OC my GPUs to the highest the can be achieved. In order to that I need to keep them cooler as the temperature will decide when OC is at the max. For fyi I am going with two nividia 1080s. My over all goal is to run 4k at the highest Hz that is going to be possible out of them. I would like to see 4k at 120hz minimum while gaming with max settings. My budget is basically bottomless, right now I got my parts without cooling 4,000 dollars and that is just what is going in the tower. I can build my own cooling system if it will even help. basically from what I understand so far with OC is that the limit is either heat or capability of the unit. So even if you could keep a CPU at -100c with OC at 100GHz I doubt that the CPU could even keep up. Now GPUs are in MHz so if I can with a custom cooling system OC to 2.5MHz with noticeable performance gain at say 70c where as a AIO would not be able to keep it that cool. I would like to see what you guys would recommend for a production AIO I looked them up and there are a lot of them. I know very little about OC and I may just be daydreaming of the impossible I don't know. But I saw a video of a CPU OC competition where they got it to 7.3GHz so I would think that GPUs can go that extreme from their stock clock speed. The better the cooling system the higher I can OC as far as I know. The higher the clock speed the more performance you get out of them. My brother OC his CPU and GPU and got a good bump. All I know is that the GPU is far more important for gaming than the CPU so that is where I am focusing my attention. If a custom cooling system as I have described is still pointless then like I said I would like what you guys would suggest for a liquid cooling. Thanks for the replies was very informative.
 

C4C

Well-Known Member
No not all. I want to OC my GPUs to the highest the can be achieved. In order to that I need to keep them cooler as the temperature will decide when OC is at the max. For fyi I am going with two nividia 1080s. My over all goal is to run 4k at the highest Hz that is going to be possible out of them. I would like to see 4k at 120hz minimum while gaming with max settings. My budget is basically bottomless, right now I got my parts without cooling 4,000 dollars and that is just what is going in the tower. I can build my own cooling system if it will even help. basically from what I understand so far with OC is that the limit is either heat or capability of the unit. So even if you could keep a CPU at -100c with OC at 100GHz I doubt that the CPU could even keep up. Now GPUs are in MHz so if I can with a custom cooling system OC to 2.5MHz with noticeable performance gain at say 70c where as a AIO would not be able to keep it that cool. I would like to see what you guys would recommend for a production AIO I looked them up and there are a lot of them. I know very little about OC and I may just be daydreaming of the impossible I don't know. But I saw a video of a CPU OC competition where they got it to 7.3GHz so I would think that GPUs can go that extreme from their stock clock speed. The better the cooling system the higher I can OC as far as I know. The higher the clock speed the more performance you get out of them. My brother OC his CPU and GPU and got a good bump. All I know is that the GPU is far more important for gaming than the CPU so that is where I am focusing my attention. If a custom cooling system as I have described is still pointless then like I said I would like what you guys would suggest for a liquid cooling. Thanks for the replies was very informative.

I'm confused and stop reading halfway through...
  • CPU won't run at -100c, but maybe 45-55c depending on what cooler blocks/radiators you have.
  • GPU's run in GHz as well, (example: 2500MHz = 2.5GHz).
  • GPU and CPU are equally as important depending on the game
  • Custom cooling looks great and will work, but probably won't provide much of a difference over something like a 280mm radiator.
  • Not sure about you getting 120FPS (Hz) @4K in games with the GTX 1080 SLI, and I don't believe such monitor exists yet, but you'll be pushing higher than 60FPS maxed out on most games.
 
Last edited:

Laquer Head

Well-Known Member
No not all. I want to OC my GPUs to the highest the can be achieved. In order to that I need to keep them cooler as the temperature will decide when OC is at the max. For fyi I am going with two nividia 1080s. My over all goal is to run 4k at the highest Hz that is going to be possible out of them. I would like to see 4k at 120hz minimum while gaming with max settings. My budget is basically bottomless, right now I got my parts without cooling 4,000 dollars and that is just what is going in the tower. I can build my own cooling system if it will even help. basically from what I understand so far with OC is that the limit is either heat or capability of the unit. So even if you could keep a CPU at -100c with OC at 100GHz I doubt that the CPU could even keep up. Now GPUs are in MHz so if I can with a custom cooling system OC to 2.5MHz with noticeable performance gain at say 70c where as a AIO would not be able to keep it that cool. I would like to see what you guys would recommend for a production AIO I looked them up and there are a lot of them. I know very little about OC and I may just be daydreaming of the impossible I don't know. But I saw a video of a CPU OC competition where they got it to 7.3GHz so I would think that GPUs can go that extreme from their stock clock speed. The better the cooling system the higher I can OC as far as I know. The higher the clock speed the more performance you get out of them. My brother OC his CPU and GPU and got a good bump. All I know is that the GPU is far more important for gaming than the CPU so that is where I am focusing my attention. If a custom cooling system as I have described is still pointless then like I said I would like what you guys would suggest for a liquid cooling. Thanks for the replies was very informative.

Oh my god... that made me dizzy reading this.

You are all over the place dude..
 

Yeti

VIP Member
What you're describing is a vapor compression cycle aka phase-change cooling. It is a method of active cooling (TEC/peltier would be another) that can produce sub-ambient temperatures. Passive cooling methods (heat sink, heat pipe, water cooling) are limited to the ambient air temperature. You can achieve very low temperatures with multistage vapor compression, but it would be a custom job. I don't know if the single stage Vapochill or similar are around anymore.

Judging by your experience, you should probably stick with a good watercooling setup. I would suggest starting with the links below and reading everything if you insist on active cooling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor-compression_refrigeration

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=233054
 

Geoff

VIP Member
No not all. I want to OC my GPUs to the highest the can be achieved. In order to that I need to keep them cooler as the temperature will decide when OC is at the max.
While true, you also need to be knowledgeable. To get the maximum OC you need to be fluent in adjusting voltages and differences between boosting core and memory frequency.
My over all goal is to run 4k at the highest Hz that is going to be possible out of them. I would like to see 4k at 120hz minimum while gaming with max settings.
What 4K 120Hz monitor do you have, or plan to buy?
basically from what I understand so far with OC is that the limit is either heat or capability of the unit. So even if you could keep a CPU at -100c with OC at 100GHz I doubt that the CPU could even keep up.
Yes, as well as knowledge on how to overclock. After a certain point you need to be very comfortable adjusting the many different voltages on the CPU and motherboard to get the best overclock. You could never get a modern CPU to 100GHz...
Now GPUs are in MHz so if I can with a custom cooling system OC to 2.5MHz with noticeable performance gain at say 70c where as a AIO would not be able to keep it that cool.
Huh? MHz are GHz are both a measure of frequency, there is no such thing as "GPUs are now in MHz". 2.5GHz = 2500MHz.
But I saw a video of a CPU OC competition where they got it to 7.3GHz so I would think that GPUs can go that extreme from their stock clock speed.
Let me understand your logic here. You saw a video of someone who got a CPU to 7.3GHz, so you are blindingly assuming that means a GPU can hit that as well? I'll save you the suspense, no you can't. GPUs can't be overclocked nearly as much as a CPU in my experience.
The better the cooling system the higher I can OC as far as I know.
To a point. As you keep raising the frequency you are getting very diminshed returns in how much voltage you need to pump through to keep it stable. Eventually you will hit a wall, which can be much lower than others with the same CPU achieved due to variations in the manufacturing process.
The higher the clock speed the more performance you get out of them.
And the more voltage you push through, the shorter lifespan it will have. Most of these overclocking competitions are only to obtain the highest speed, they don't maintain those speeds during normal use.
 
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C4C

Well-Known Member
While true, you also need to be knowledgeable. To get the maximum OC you need to be fluent in adjusting voltages and differences between boosting core and memory frequency.

What 4K 120Hz monitor do you have, or plan to buy?

Yes, as well as knowledge on how to overclock. After a certain point you need to be very comfortable adjusting the many different voltages on the CPU and motherboard to get the best overclock. You could never get a modern CPU to 100GHz...
Huh? MHz are GHz are both a measure of frequency, there is no such thing as "GPUs are now in MHz". 2.5GHz = 2500MHz.
Let me understand your logic here. You saw a video of someone who got a CPU to 7.3GHz, so you are blindingly assuming that means a GPU can hit that as well? I'll save you the suspense, no you can't. GPUs can't be overclocked nearly as much as a CPU in my experience.

To a point. As you keep raising the frequency you are getting very diminshed returns in how much voltage you need to pump through to keep it stable. Eventually you will hit a wall, which can be much lower than others with the same CPU achieved due to variations in the manufacturing process.

And the more voltage you push through, the shorter lifespan it will have. Most of these overclocking competitions are only to obtain the highest speed, they don't maintain those speeds during normal use.

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*off topic, sorry :D*
 
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