So, is it illegal to torrent a copy of windows if you already own the OS?

massahwahl

massahwahl

VIP Member
A few weeks ago I received a *warning* from mep for suggesting that someone use a torrent to download a copy of Windows XP media center edition to replace the cd he had legally purchased and still held a serial code to. I was not aware that this violated Microsofts EULA since, afterall, the OP did say he had bought the OS and his serial code was still active.

Let me clarify before I begin, I in no way argued with meps decision, he was protecting the integrity of the site and violated a rule whether I thought i had or not, I do not disagree with his decision and he knows that I was looking farther into the matter!

Now then, I decided to email Microsoft directly and get to the bottom of the issue and answer two questions: 1) If I lost my OS disk, could I borrow a copy of the same OS from a friend of mine and install it on my pc using my valid key? and 2) If I lost my OS disk, could I use an internet torrent to download an unaltered, untouched copy of the OS and install it using my valid serial key that I purchased previously?

While I admit I could have clarified my questions better to the representative in the early emails, I think by the end we were (somewhat) on the same page. She finally asked me to call Msoft on the matter but I decided I had pursued the matter far enough. So what follows are the email exhchanges back and forth with Microsoft:

Email:
From: me
Sent 04 December 2008
To: Microsoft Support Team
Topic: Question regarding Windows EULA

I just had a very quick question I wanted to clarify. If I legally purchased a copy of a Windows OS and have a valid serial key but down the road lose my installation cd or it becomes otherwise defective, am I allowed to borrow a copy of the same OS installation disc from a friend and reinstall the OS using my legal and valid seral key?

Email:
Response

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Microsoft Customer Service.

I appreciate you for the time taken to write back to us and apologize for misunderstanding what your asking.

Product keys are specific to products and each key is unique it does matter where the disc came from. Each disc is accompanied by their own product keys.

You may obtain a replacement copy of windows from Microsoft.... (this response was repeated in every subsequent reply so I wont bother including it. All she did was offer to get me in contact with someone who could get me a replacement disc)

Thank You,

Shantanu

My reply:

This is all a 'what if' scenario...

I know that what you said is incorrect as I have fixed dozens of computers using my OS installation cds and someone elses serial key and never ran into an issue of the key being locked to a specific disc. I dont know of any software company that requires only certain cds with certain serial keys??

If someone was to download an OS installation disc via a torrent and install it using their serial key would this violate the EULA?

Im not interested in whether or not you think it would work, just if it violates the EULA.

Her reply:

Yes downloading any microsoft product from an internet torrent violates that products EULA.

When you download a Windows operating system via torrent you never know on how many computers is has been priorly (yes she used 'priorly') installed but as per Microsoft Software Licensing Terms for Windows XP and Windows Vista, only one copy could be installed per machine.

My Reply:

Even if a person used their legally purchased microsoft windows serial number and activated it accordingly?

Her Response:

I would like you to know that each Windows operating system has its own product key. A Microsoft product comes with its own product. Hence, you may not be able to install another windows from another cd using your product key. Product key is unique for each windows system

Thank You,

Sujith

(Still dont think they get it...)

My Reply:

I understand that each operating system has its own serial codes, thats not the question.

Here is what im asking:

I legally purchased a valid copy of Windows Vista Ultimate

At some point my disc becomes unusable, so I get online and download an un-tampered with copy OF THE SAME OPERATING SYSTEM and install it using my original serial key.

So it was the exact same OS as what I originally legally purchased only I used a torrect to get another copy to use with my serial key.

Does this violate the EULA?

Her Response:

I appreciate you for the time taken to write back to us with the status of your issue.

for further assistance, please contact our licensing team at....

-end-

So I never called and dont know if its worth the headache of having to deal with another Indian call center know-nothing, but there is as far as I got with exploring issue. Sounds like they may not have understood me completely but they did flat out say it violates the EULA.

So in the end, I was wrong Mep was right. :) Good times.
 
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GSAV55

GSAV55

New Member
sweet, good to know. What happens if you violate a EULA? and how would they find out? I am not promoting, reccomending, or interested in violating EULAs or pirating, I am just embarking on the pursuit of knowledge.
 
massahwahl

massahwahl

VIP Member
GSAV55 said:
sweet, good to know. What happens if you violate a EULA? and how would they find out? I am not promoting, reccomending, or interested in violating EULAs or pirating, I am just embarking on the pursuit of knowledge.
Click to expand...

I dont know, I guess I sort of had a similar question of 'why do they care?'

I mean, you purchased the serial key to unlock the software THATS where they make their money so why does it matter HOW you got the software if you already paid for the key?
 
GSAV55

GSAV55

New Member
Yeah, I agree with that. If anything it saves them money on shipping and the actual CD, unless they try and make u get a new serial code which would be crap.
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
The DMCA clearly states that it is illegal to transfer one digital property into a different medium with out the consent of the maker if it is a current product. Meaning if you can still buy it you can't change it into a disk image, a torrent, or whatever. Plain illegal.

Now, EULAs, hardly stand up in court though, which is the funny part. However, acquiring something illegal won't either.

Yes, license keys can be batched to match certain disks. However, to my knowledge it is mainly to markets. A disk purchased in Europe won't work with an American license key. Vista has all sorts of crazy DRM, and with WGA they can also check your build revision (ie, what version of the installer disk you used) versus your product key.

You also won't get an answer from their customer service. Contact their legal department. You realize MS has more lawyers than all of us that frequent this site put together, with the exception of maybe Intel_crazy, since he and his family had an army of lawyer friends.
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
GSAV55 said:
Why is it that they hardly stand up in court?
Click to expand...

If you legally pay for something, then given lots of consumer rights certain aspects of the EULA don't hold up so well in court. I am not a lawyer or copywriter though, so don't take my word for it. However, there are plenty of parts in the EULA that won't hold up in court.

Piracy is one that will hold up in court though, which is the subject of this thread.
 
speedyink

speedyink

VIP Member
This is just a case of it technically being illegal because of some bullshit rule that some executive thought of so be smarmy and clear all the loopholes. The reality? It causes many angry people, more money for microsoft, as it makes them have to reship the product to the customer, creates more waste, energy and materials for the packaging is needed.

To answer your question, yes, going by the set rule by microsoft, it is illegal. However, in a logical view standpoint, it saves time, money and energy to do it anyway.
 
teamhex

teamhex

Active Member
To just reply, the general answer is, it is illegal. Some people want there movies or documentary's torrented and spread. Now....if Microsoft didn't like you torrenting the copy, and tried to sue you...im sure they could DMCA you but honestly I don't see the problem if you own a copy. I think the worst that can happen is they delete your windows key and or make you pay for another copy. I may be wrong, but legally speaking you are allowed to own a copy of the disk. The law says its ok to burn back up copy's of things up if you have the original you paid for. However the general DMCA rule is uploading(not download) anyone's copyrighted material is illegal, but that doesn't take into account other factors. Theres really no simple answer, let me know if you call em im interested to see what they say. Im sure there just going to say "no you cant" to avoid anything happening. From what I know, it is not illegal to download(if it is then they have to be in your house to see it or its entrapment or hacking), however it is illegal to upload. Ill see if I can scan my DMCA letter. Anyway if you read it, it doesn't say you were downloading it says you were a server.
 
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GSAV55

GSAV55

New Member
Really, really briefly, what is DMCA? Like just give me a synopsis of the summary of what it is, haha, thanks.
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
speedyink said:
This is just a case of it technically being illegal because of some bullshit rule that some executive thought of so be smarmy and clear all the loopholes. The reality? It causes many angry people, more money for microsoft, as it makes them have to reship the product to the customer, creates more waste, energy and materials for the packaging is needed.

To answer your question, yes, going by the set rule by microsoft, it is illegal. However, in a logical view standpoint, it saves time, money and energy to do it anyway.
Click to expand...

By they you mean the government and supreme court right? Sure the MPAA, RIAA, and big computer companies lobbied for things like the DMCA, but it was the government that made it official, not the CEOs.

Microsoft now wants to go to a yearly subscription fee, where the customer pays a set amount of money each year (to be determined) and it allows them to download whatever versions they want and are available. Of course it is only in the works nothing official about it yet.

Remember you don't own windows, you lease it for $150 to $300 per a license.
 
massahwahl

massahwahl

VIP Member
A rule is a rule I suppose. I had always been under the impression that when you purchase anything with a serial code, its the code your paying for and not so much the media its connected to. Just like purchasing games online, you can purchase and download the software for free, but its useless till you buy a product key.

I also thought that installing windows without a key would only work for a certain number of days like a trial period till you buy a key, I could be wrong about that though.
 
speedyink

speedyink

VIP Member
ukulele_ninja said:
A rule is a rule I suppose. I had always been under the impression that when you purchase anything with a serial code, its the code your paying for and not so much the media its connected to. Just like purchasing games online, you can purchase and download the software for free, but its useless till you buy a product key.

I also thought that installing windows without a key would only work for a certain number of days like a trial period till you buy a key, I could be wrong about that though.
Click to expand...

Exactly how I thought of it.
 
TFT

TFT

VIP Member
Exactly Ninja
I purchased AVG paid for suite, downloaded it and they sent the key by Email. Months later my computer messed up so I downloaded it again and used my key. I thought that's how it worked :confused:
 
tlarkin

tlarkin

VIP Member
TFT said:
Exactly Ninja
I purchased AVG paid for suite, downloaded it and they sent the key by Email. Months later my computer messed up so I downloaded it again and used my key. I thought that's how it worked :confused:
Click to expand...

That is a subscription based license, and you will have to pay again when your subscription expires.
 
massahwahl

massahwahl

VIP Member
Well hopefully my back and forth with the customer support team at MSoft will clear up some confusion that anyone may have had about the rules and how their EULA works, each company dictates how their software can and cannot be used regardless of how dumb we feel their decision is.

I will say that im liking Ubuntu Linux more and more each day so as not to worry about these goofy qualms with Msoft.
 
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