Vistakid, advice please.

[wolfeking]

okay, I know it is a little bit of forum taboo, but I am really looking for advice from vistakid only, but if you all have any major input then by all means chime in.

(ctd from the G3 thread dreailment)
Okay, yea, I know what you mean. I have yet to find one that fits me just right. I like having a small laptop (14.1 up to 15.4) but I like having the power to do just about anything at the same time. I really should either fix what I have now, or upgrade it to fit what I am doing.

okay, so what is needed to fix the current holdings.
-Latitude D630.
*Battery definitely. I get 100% charge on them, but best discharge I get is under an hour.
* SSD. I need less power draw and heat definitely. The CD drive can be removed and replaced with a 4 cell battery, but I don't know if it is worth the investment, as if I need the CD drive, how would I confirm if the 4 cell battery if discharging? Cause if it is the main power source at that minute and I pull it then I have screwed the lappy, right?

-M90
*Video Card. The FX2500m will run desktop just fine. I can boot to it, but as soon as I start anything remotely graphic intensive, be it a small game (GLobal operations, DX8) or CAD software, it starts artifacting and I have to restart it to use it at all.
Okay, I looked up some cards that are in the same series so that there may be a chance of it working in it. The FX2500m runs burning your leg hot, so trying to find something newer that would run cooler (thats the way it works right? 6770 cooler than 5770 cooler than 4870?)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DELL-PRECIS...429?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item27c75db7cd it says M90, but I do not remember seeing it listed for it when I was buying the lappy. Based on the 8800m GTX, so DX10, and more important iirc it carries Nvidia standard drivers and is not stuck with the Dell release drivers. Now the Precision M6300 was a revision of the M90. If it will not work on M90 stock, maybe flash it to the M6300 BIOS? I don't remember if the 6300 revised the chipset, but I think it is 965PM, so should be the same iirc.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precis...027?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item3375c54693 looks to be the same design, If memory holds, it is a GTX280m stabilized for CAD. M6500 changed laptop design, so if it does not agree with the M90/M6300 BIOS, then its bricked. So this one is a no go I think.
*Battery, it only runs 30 minutes with everything powered off but USB and system essential devices. So yea.

Or, Or, I could save money and Sell the D630 and M90 and go to something better? I like XP/2000 compatibility, SATA, Mediabay (IBM has an equivalent) and a pretty powerful DX10 or above Quadro or Firepro (there is something else from AMD too, but I can not remember it at the moment) and needs a Core 2 Duo or above (pretty well covered with the GPU requirement). Basically what I am looking for if I replace them is to have something that I could spend hours watching movies on battery power, or have the power to game or render something generally fast. Might branch into simulating if I can find something that would be able to do it.

 

[spirit]

Right OK here are my recommendations:

Latitude D630:

*Battery definitely. I get 100% charge on them, but best discharge I get is under an hour.

I agree. If you want to spend hours watching movies on battery, then you're going to need a new battery. Get as many cells as you can. Not sure how/where the battery fits in on the D630, but on some of the ThinkPads the larger batteries do tend to 'stick out a bit' at the rear of the laptop, making them a bit bulkier. Not sure if this is the same for the Dells or not though. Bear in mind that a larger battery may also add to weight. Are you concerned about weight/portability at all?

* SSD. I need less power draw and heat definitely.

Yes an SSD would be a nice upgrade. Don't bother spending the money on a SATA 6GB/s drive though, just get a SATA 3GB/s SSD such as the OCZ Vertex II or something like that. There's no point in going for a 6GB/s drive as the D630 will only use SATA 3GB/s most likely. However if you plan on pulling it out of your D630 in the future and putting it in a newer laptop, it may be wise to go for 6GB/s.

The CD drive can be removed and replaced with a 4 cell battery, but I don't know if it is worth the investment, as if I need the CD drive, how would I confirm if the 4 cell battery if discharging?

I'd just leave the CD drive in there, unless you can get an external one - but that's just more hassle. Once you've got a new battery for your laptop, I doubt you'll need another.

Cause if it is the main power source at that minute and I pull it then I have screwed the lappy, right?

Potentially. If the laptop is only being powered by a battery and you suddenly remove the battery, you should be OK, but if the laptop is being powered by A/C and there's no battery (ie, you've removed it), then yeah you can do what I did to my R40 and wreck it.

Precision M90:

*Video Card. The FX2500m will run desktop just fine. I can boot to it, but as soon as I start anything remotely graphic intensive, be it a small game (GLobal operations, DX8) or CAD software, it starts artifacting and I have to restart it to use it at all.

It could be that the card is not powerful enough or it could be some sort of overheating. Have you tried spraying air into the vents underneath and on the left/right-hand side of the laptop and seeing if any of the dust bunnies escape? Seems odd you can't even play DX8 games without it crashing. Definitely try cleaning it out a bit.

The FX2500m runs burning your leg hot, so trying to find something newer that would run cooler

Yeah laptop GPUs always seem to run hot. Again, I'd advise spraying air into the vents.

6770 cooler than 5770 cooler than 4870?

The 6770 runs cooler and quieter than a 4870. I'd imagine the 6770 and the 5770 will run at about the same temperatures, they're pretty similar cards.

it says M90, but I do not remember seeing it listed for it when I was buying the lappy. Based on the 8800m GTX, so DX10, and more important iirc it carries Nvidia standard drivers and is not stuck with the Dell release drivers. Now the Precision M6300 was a revision of the M90. If it will not work on M90 stock, maybe flash it to the M6300 BIOS?

It could possibly work, but that's $190 down the drain if it doesn't. Yes, the performance is very similar to the 8800m because of the extra stream processors which this FX 3600 has. I'd do your research before you go ahead and do it, I reckon it could possibly work though.

I agree with you on the other card. Sadly I think it's a no go with the FX 3800m I''m afraid.

*Battery, it only runs 30 minutes with everything powered off but USB and system essential devices. So yea.

Yep I'd say grab a new one if you can. 30 minutes is pretty poor.

Upgrading:

Or, Or, I could save money and Sell the D630 and M90 and go to something better? I like XP/2000 compatibility

You see, that's the problem. I'd probably recommend you sell these two and save up for something better, however whilst you could probably run XP on a newer laptop (you may have to search for drivers though), I doubt you could run 2000. If the new laptop you buy is powerful enough, you could run W2K in a VM I guess - not sure if a VM is the ideal solution for you. What do you do with 2000 these days? I'm guessing it's for older games and probably not watching movies etc, right?

You could always pick up a cheap old lappy to run 2000 on. Not sure how expensive older laptops are in the States, but you should probably be able to pick something up fairly cheap. Not sure if this is what you want or not?

Basically what I am looking for if I replace them is to have something that I could spend hours watching movies on battery power, or have the power to game or render something generally fast. Might branch into simulating if I can find something that would be able to do it.

You probably want something with an i5 or maybe even an i7 processor for the rendering and possibly something like a GTX 560m graphics card for the gaming. Depending on which games you play, the 560m may be overkill though. I'd take a look at MSI's offerings. They make some nice laptops.

How much would you spend on a new laptop?

Hopefully that answers most of your questions. Let me know if you have any more!

 

[wolfeking]

Right OK here are my recommendations:

Latitude D630:


I agree. If you want to spend hours watching movies on battery, then you're going to need a new battery. Get as many cells as you can. Not sure how/where the battery fits in on the D630, but on some of the ThinkPads the larger batteries do tend to 'stick out a bit' at the rear of the laptop, making them a bit bulkier. Not sure if this is the same for the Dells or not though. Bear in mind that a larger battery may also add to weight. Are you concerned about weight/portability at all?

The battery mounts to the front. the 9 and 12 cell batteries add a bar across the front, which could get awkward I guess, but is not a turn off to the Idea.
I am not really worried about weight of the laptop. I could add a good 5 pounds or more and still be below the weight of the M90 that I carried around school all last semester.

I'd just leave the CD drive in there, unless you can get an external one - but that's just more hassle. Once you've got a new battery for your laptop, I doubt you'll need another.

okay then. I would rekon that a good 9 cell battery would power it for hours on end with it being a new battery. The two I have are years old, OEM to this unit I think, and at best I could get ever out of them was about 90 minutes.

It could be that the card is not powerful enough or it could be some sort of overheating. Have you tried spraying air into the vents underneath and on the left/right-hand side of the laptop and seeing if any of the dust bunnies escape? Seems odd you can't even play DX8 games without it crashing. Definitely try cleaning it out a bit.

Yes, I have cleaned it out. I have blown air in both from a rattle can from walmart and 50 PSI from a filtered Air Compressor and got nothing on both accounts. And the card has ran everything on it at one point or another, and generally runs it pretty well.

Yeah laptop GPUs always seem to run hot. Again, I'd advise spraying air into the vents.

This I know, but at a point it gets beyond acceptable. And Air was covered above I think.

It could possibly work, but that's $190 down the drain if it doesn't. Yes, the performance is very similar to the 8800m because of the extra stream processors which this FX 3600 has. I'd do your research before you go ahead and do it, I reckon it could possibly work though.

I agree with you on the other card. Sadly I think it's a no go with the FX 3800m I''m afraid.

I am weary of trying an upgrade at all, cause like you said, its 200 down the drain if it does not work. And the only people that could tell me 100% for sure would be dell tech, and at this point they would try to sell me a new laptop, which I am not really looking for, more on that below.

You see, that's the problem. I'd probably recommend you sell these two and save up for something better, however whilst you could probably run XP on a newer laptop (you may have to search for drivers though), I doubt you could run 2000. If the new laptop you buy is powerful enough, you could run W2K in a VM I guess - not sure if a VM is the ideal solution for you. What do you do with 2000 these days? I'm guessing it's for older games and probably not watching movies etc, right?

What I use windows 2000 for is pretty much everything. I have been moving away from it lately though. Got the D630 running vista right now mainly cause I was getting a SMART failure from my hard drive and did not have time to fully test it, so grabbed the Nvidia driver and the Vista disk and installed it on the way up to grandads. I really miss 2000 though. But I guess newer is better, as things just work, especially flash.

You could always pick up a cheap old lappy to run 2000 on. Not sure how expensive older laptops are in the States, but you should probably be able to pick something up fairly cheap. Not sure if this is what you want or not?

I could. But that is not really worth it. I can run it in dual boot most likely for whatever I end up getting.

You probably want something with an i5 or maybe even an i7 processor for the rendering and possibly something like a GTX 560m graphics card for the gaming. Depending on which games you play, the 560m may be overkill though. I'd take a look at MSI's offerings. They make some nice laptops.

How much would you spend on a new laptop?

Hopefully that answers most of your questions. Let me know if you have any more!

I have 800 ish to spend, minus some trumpet parts next month, or I could get my parts (less than $100) and save the rest for August and have 1600 ish to spend. But I really do not need to get that new of a laptop. I was more onto getting something newer than the M90, but most likely still on Santa Rosa platform. I just do not see point in getting a brand new laptop, as I would be sooooo scared of breaking it that I would end up leaving it at home most of the time. That is assuming that the saying holds true that "they don't build them like they used to". I just do not want to be worried that if I drop it im out over a grand.
I am definately looking for something in the pro line with quadro or firepro or equalivent. This is because of using CAD, and the lack of hardcore gaming on it. Most of what I am doing with it is school work, and modeling ideas and such to farther my education. A lot of times what I model is mainly where Ill be talking about something and get an idea of "how could i do this better, or make it more efficient". I am still working on a bovine catapult (long story).

Anyway, Pro is going to have a better warranty, a better Graphics card, better expandability, and most likely more steel inside (I assume thats the main reason for the weight of the M90. I know the A20m had metal supports inside that really strengthened the whole chassis.)

 

[spirit]

The battery mounts to the front. the 9 and 12 cell batteries add a bar across the front, which could get awkward I guess, but is not a turn off to the Idea.
I am not really worried about weight of the laptop. I could add a good 5 pounds or more and still be below the weight of the M90 that I carried around school all last semester.

In that case then I'd say go for the biggest cell battery you can then. It may be a bit awkward if it sticks out at the front, but hopefully it won't stick out too far.

okay then. I would rekon that a good 9 cell battery would power it for hours on end with it being a new battery.

I would agree. Just stick with the one 9 cell battery and see how it goes.

This I know, but at a point it gets beyond acceptable.

I agree it shouldn't be running so hot it burns your legs. Have you tried actually disassembling the laptop and seeing what's going on underneath or have you only sprayed the vents? Disassembling would be a right pain though.

I am weary of trying an upgrade at all, cause like you said, its 200 down the drain if it does not work. And the only people that could tell me 100% for sure would be dell tech

I did some more Googling and found nothing, so I'd just assume that the chances are it doesn't work. Dell would probably want you to get a new laptop I'd imagine. Somebody asked if the FX 3600m would run in an M90 on Dell's forums and they got no replies, so obviously nobody really knows.

I could. But that is not really worth it. I can run it in dual boot most likely for whatever I end up getting.

That's what I was thinking too. I reckon a dual boot may work OK or if not a VM would be fine for everything apart from gaming perhaps. You could try to install your games in compatibility mode for 2000 or XP inside of Vista if you wanted. They may work.

But I really do not need to get that new of a laptop. I was more onto getting something newer than the M90, but most likely still on Santa Rosa platform. I just do not see point in getting a brand new laptop, as I would be sooooo scared of breaking it that I would end up leaving it at home most of the time. That is assuming that the saying holds true that "they don't build them like they used to". I just do not want to be worried that if I drop it im out over a grand.

Well the quality of Dell's laptops has gotten better IMO, but it's not that that really matters. I suppose if you walked into school with a brand enw laptop worth over a grand and somebody saw it then it's likely to get stolen. The other week I had to take my FinePix S4000 camera into school several times and I don't want to take it in again. I was so scared of leaving it in my bag unattended and suchlike, and that camera is just worth a couple of hundred. Wouldn't wanna leave a brand new laptop worth a grand unattended!

I am definately looking for something in the pro line with quadro or firepro or equalivent. This is because of using CAD, and the lack of hardcore gaming on it. Most of what I am doing with it is school work, and modeling ideas and such to farther my education. A lot of times what I model is mainly where Ill be talking about something and get an idea of "how could i do this better, or make it more efficient". I am still working on a bovine catapult (long story).

So you want a second hand laptop that's newer than what you've got then?

It's probably worth looking into other manufacturers too just to see what other people have to offer. Each manufacturer will offer different things at different prices, so it's definitely worth just taking a look round. Ideally you want to spend less than 800 on a used machine though, definitely.

If you'd like another ThinkPad then I'd recommend signing up to the ThinkPad Forums (forums.thinkpads.com) and then explaining what you want to do and asking if there's a ThinkPad which will meet your needs. They may also recommend other laptops to you too. If you sign up to those forums though say you're not a computer novice and have a good understanding of hardware and software because they do tend to treat new members a bit like babies, and most of them over there don't know the amount of stuff we know over here about hardware and suchlike, but they do know a lot about laptops in general and would recommend a good one to you. Do what I did and put your Computer Forum profile link in your signature if you like.

 

[wolfeking]

I agree it shouldn't be running so hot it burns your legs. Have you tried actually disassembling the laptop and seeing what's going on underneath or have you only sprayed the vents? Disassembling would be a right pain though.

I have not disassembled it completely before. I have field stripped it when I got it just to get familiar with the design in case I needed something I could go right to it. I think if I remove the keyboard and power board (where the button is) then I have access to the top of the CPU socket, i think. Disassembling it will have to wait till I get back home though, all grandad has is full size screwdrivers and there is no way I can get them screws with them. I do have a feeling it is a failing card though. Maybe from overheating, but at best I could do is clean it completely out and reassemble everything. Got time though.

That's what I was thinking too. I reckon a dual boot may work OK or if not a VM would be fine for everything apart from gaming perhaps. You could try to install your games in compatibility mode for 2000 or XP inside of Vista if you wanted. They may work.

I can game on any windows most likely. I just love the looks of 2000. I have been using it so long it is just ingrained in me. I guess a good way to put it is STARS is to XP as Wolfe is to 2000.

Well the quality of Dell's laptops has gotten better IMO, but it's not that that really matters. I suppose if you walked into school with a brand enw laptop worth over a grand and somebody saw it then it's likely to get stolen. The other week I had to take my FinePix S4000 camera into school several times and I don't want to take it in again. I was so scared of leaving it in my bag unattended and suchlike, and that camera is just worth a couple of hundred. Wouldn't wanna leave a brand new laptop worth a grand unattended!

Actually, I am not too worried about that. I keep my pack locked and its always either right on my back, or on the back of my chair. I never have had an issue with someone trying to take electronics before. Now my injection needles have been nicked before. Which was a dick move by them.

So you want a second hand laptop that's newer than what you've got then?

It's probably worth looking into other manufacturers too just to see what other people have to offer. Each manufacturer will offer different things at different prices, so it's definitely worth just taking a look round. Ideally you want to spend less than 800 on a used machine though, definitely.

If you'd like another ThinkPad then I'd recommend signing up to the ThinkPad Forums (forums.thinkpads.com) and then explaining what you want to do and asking if there's a ThinkPad which will meet your needs. They may also recommend other laptops to you too. If you sign up to those forums though say you're not a computer novice and have a good understanding of hardware and software because they do tend to treat new members a bit like babies, and most of them over there don't know the amount of stuff we know over here about hardware and suchlike, but they do know a lot about laptops in general and would recommend a good one to you. Do what I did and put your Computer Forum profile link in your signature if you like.

[/quote]
I am not really sure what I want to do. If I go used, it will be from ebay, buy caviet emptor (assuming I am remembering right), it may not be what they are advertising.
I was looking at the new ones, and to get a good one is a pretty penny or more. I liked the M4600, but it would not load out the way I wanted for the budget. Here it is and loaded it as

My System DetailsGenuine Windows® 7 Professional, No Media, 64-bit, English
Intel® Core™ i5-2520M Dual Core (2.50GHz, 3M cache, Upgradable to Intel® vPro™ technology)
No Productivity Software
Resource DVD - Contains Drivers
Recovery Media for Cyberlink PowerDVD™, DVD Playback
Recovery Media for Genuine Windows® 7 Professional,64bit,Multiple Language
8X DVD with Cyberlink Power DVD™, no media
3 Year Basic Hardware Service with 3 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis
2.0GB, DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM, 1 DIMM
NVIDIA® Quadro® 2000M with 2GB GDDR3
15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Premium Panel Guarantee
All Hard Drives, Non-RAID, 1 or 2 drive total configuration
320GB 7200rpm Hard Drive
9-cell (97Wh) Lithium Ion Battery
Intel® Centrino® Ultimate-N 6300 802.11a/b/g/n Half Mini Card
Light Sensitive Webcam and Noise Cancelling Digital Array Mic
Internal English Backlit Keyboard
No Fingerprint Reader and No Contactless Smartcard Reader
Intel vPro™ Technology’s Advanced Management Features
No ESTAR Enabled
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional, No Media, 64-bit, English
Intel® Core™ i5-2520M Dual Core (2.50GHz, 3M cache, Upgradable to Intel® vPro™ technology)
No Productivity Software
Resource DVD - Contains Drivers
Recovery Media for Cyberlink PowerDVD™, DVD Playback
Recovery Media for Genuine Windows® 7 Professional,64bit,Multiple Language
8X DVD with Cyberlink Power DVD™, no media
3 Year Basic Hardware Service with 3 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis
2.0GB, DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM, 1 DIMM
NVIDIA® Quadro® 2000M with 2GB GDDR3
15.6" UltraSharp™ FHD(1920x1080) Anti-Glare LED-backlit with Premium Panel Guarantee
All Hard Drives, Non-RAID, 1 or 2 drive total configuration
320GB 7200rpm Hard Drive
9-cell (97Wh) Lithium Ion Battery
Intel® Centrino® Ultimate-N 6300 802.11a/b/g/n Half Mini Card
Light Sensitive Webcam and Noise Cancelling Digital Array Mic
Internal English Backlit Keyboard
No Fingerprint Reader and No Contactless Smartcard Reader
Intel vPro™ Technology’s Advanced Management Features
No ESTAR Enabled
Also Included
Precision Mobile M4600
180W 3P, A/C Adapter
Intel Core i5 vPro Label

and that is $1541. I also looked at the thinkpad W530, and it was out of range to have a 1080p (what so ever happened to 1920*1200?) and quadro 2000m, but it did have a quad core.

I may just go new, but again, I am more worried about dropping it than it getting stolen.

 

[spirit]

I do have a feeling it is a failing card though. Maybe from overheating, but at best I could do is clean it completely out and reassemble everything. Got time though.

I think it could be failing. I remember reading that sometimes on older laptops the graphics cards are not sufficiently, so they get very hot and then die pretty quickly. If you have the time and the patience, it's probably worth disassembling the whole thing and having a look at what is going on underneath.

I guess a good way to put it is STARS is to XP as Wolfe is to 2000.

I know I'm called 'vistakid' but Vista's not my favourite. It was for a while but then I got 7.

Not sure if 2000 is going to run brilliantly on that Dell you configured. For a start you need al the drivers. You could always set up a dual-boot and see how it goes though.

I am not really sure what I want to do. If I go used, it will be from ebay, buy caviet emptor (assuming I am remembering right), it may not be what they are advertising.
I was looking at the new ones, and to get a good one is a pretty penny or more. I liked the M4600, but it would not load out the way I wanted for the budget. Here it is and loaded it as

Yeah you can get some pretty good good deals by buying second hand stuff and usually it's all in pretty good condition, however a newer system would last you longer so that may be the better route. It all depends on how much you want to spend. You said 800-1600 earlier didn't you? You can buy a sweet new laptop for that.

and that is $1541. I also looked at the thinkpad W530, and it was out of range to have a 1080p (what so ever happened to 1920*1200?) and quadro 2000m, but it did have a quad core.

How much did the W530 cost? If you got this Dell you'd probably want to upgrade the RAM to 4GB or even 8GB if you can - 2GB just doesn't cut it these days, especially with Vista and 7. If the W530 has more RAM and a better processor then it may be a better choice.

I am more worried about dropping it than it getting stolen.

If you keep it in a laptop carry case whilst travelling/walking around school and make sure you have a firm grip on the handle or wear it over your shoulder like a satchel you should surely be OK?

 

[wolfeking]

its $1839 for the W530.

System components
Intel Core i7-3610QM Processor (6MB L3, 2.30GHz)
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)
15.6" FHD (1900 x 1080) LED Backlit AntiGlare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
NVIDIA Quadro K2000M Graphics with 2GB DDR3 Memory
4 GB PC3-12800 DDR3 (1 DIMM)
Keyboard Backlit - US English
UltraNav with Fingerprint Reader
720p HD Camera with Microphone
500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD Recordable
Express Card Slot & 4-in-1 Card Reader
9 Cell Li-Ion TWL 70++
170W Slim AC Adapter - US (2pin)
ThinkPad 1x1 b/g/n
Mobile Broadband upgradable

and as for the Dell, it will be cheaper to buy memory from newegg and install it myself than to upgrade from them. Lenovo is the same way. They charge $160 to go to 8GB from 4GB. I could get 16 from newegg for that.

The only things that I see is these are pushing the budget pretty close, and they are only GTX460m based machines. With 128 bit bus and DDR3, and 192 shaders. Now that will clearly outperform everything I have except the 4870 (i think). But will it not be bottlenecked by 128 and DDR3? I am not seeing an offering for the higher end quadro cards so I don't know what they would be priced at. from what I am seeing at notebookcheck, the 256 bit DDR5 EEC GTX480m based quadro 5010m is only offered in the elitebook 8760w, and I want to stay away from HP. :/

 

[spirit]

as for the Dell, it will be cheaper to buy memory from newegg and install it myself than to upgrade from them. Lenovo is the same way. They charge $160 to go to 8GB from 4GB. I could get 16 from newegg for that.

Yep don't buy RAM from Lenovo or Dell, you can better stuff for cheaper as you said from Newegg or somewhere else.

With 128 bit bus and DDR3, and 192 shaders. Now that will clearly outperform everything I have except the 4870 (i think).

Yeah the 4870 in your desktop will outperform that mobile chip.

I am not seeing an offering for the higher end quadro cards so I don't know what they would be priced at. from what I am seeing at notebookcheck, the 256 bit DDR5 EEC GTX480m based quadro 5010m is only offered in the elitebook 8760w, and I want to stay away from HP. :/

I don't think you'd need kind of power to be honest, and HP's laptops aren't the best but they're not too bad. I'd stick to Lenovo and/or Dell if I were you. Acers aren't too bad either, but again, Dell and Lenovo are probably better.

If you want to buy new, I'd probably just go for the Dell and upgrade to 8GB of RAM. You should be OK with the dual-core i5 for what you want. You say you do CAD work and rendering on your laptop? I'm trying to decide whether an i7 would be better for you or not - the extra pair of cores and the extra cache may come in handy, but the i5 is better value for money.

 

[wolfeking]

I definitely will not buy RAM from them.

Yea, its a beast competitively, but what I am worried about is the RAM and bus width of the quadro 2000m. I remember back when I was looking at the GT540m that notebook check said that 128 bit and DDR3 there would be a bottleneck. If that is true (not sure), then would upping the core count not exacerbate the issue?

I know I do not need that kind of power, but it never hurts to cover all the bases completely. After all, there is nothing worse than being 2 points down at bottom of the 9th with bases loaded and 2 outs, and putting a blind kid up to bat. lol.

Also, derailing my own thread, but What about a Thinkpad T series or Latitude? I looked at latitude and could not find anything but the intel HD offerings, which would not do. I know Latitude used to have the NVS series, so maybe it took a step down. the T60 had a NVS too I think, but Lenovo takes forever to load, so I will go look later. But as it seems, the Latitudes are not much savings over the Precision, so it will probably be my choice.

 

[spirit]

Well I was thinking an i7 may be better for your render times? More cores, more processing power = faster render times? If you don't think you need the i7, then go for the i5, that should work fine too for you.

You are correct, for gaming, the GT 540m would likely bottleneck the i7.

I'd go for a Precision over the Latitude and a W-series over the T-series if you want a ThinkPad. The W-series TPs tend to be expensive machines though.

 

[wolfeking]

I think we are on 2 different wavelengths on the graphics card. The Card itself is bottlenecked is what they are saying. Basically the cores would process faster than the memory could handle if I understand it right. I am only talking about the GPU here, not its interconnects with other components. So what I was asking was if 96/128 bit/DDR3 was bottlenecked, then 192/128 bit/DDR3 would more or less double the bottleneck effect, yes?

I am not really worried about gaming on these cards. Worst case scenario is MW3 and a t7200 and FX2500m (7900m GTX) can max it at 20ish frames at 1200p. Anything new will smash it. But I am not gaming that much. Mainly just when bored as heck in school and got nothing better to do, and at grandads house.

Okay, so at this point, it is down to the W530 verses the Precision lines. The Thinkpad is stock with Ivybridge quad core, 4GB DDR3-1600 and maxes with a Quadro 2000m at 1850. The precision has a i5, 2GB DDR3-1333 and maxes at 2000m.
But again, how far the graphic card is bottlenecked by the memory and bus rate may push me to a M6600 opening the 256bit DDR5 cards starting at the Quadro 3000m, but would also push the price north of 2 grand.

if it matters, I never though it would be this hard to shop for a laptop. I just want to be sure I get a laptop that will do 250% of what I need that way when I demand more there is reserve. If that makes sense.

 

[spirit]

So what I was asking was if 96/128 bit/DDR3 was bottlenecked, then 192/128 bit/DDR3 would more or less double the bottleneck effect, yes?

Yes, it would.

But I am not gaming that much. Mainly just when bored as heck in school and got nothing better to do, and at grandads house.

Isn't that when we all like to game?

20 FPS is OK at 1200p, you can always run MW3 at a lower resolution and lower settings and achieve a higher FPS.

Okay, so at this point, it is down to the W530 verses the Precision lines. The Thinkpad is stock with Ivybridge quad core, 4GB DDR3-1600 and maxes with a Quadro 2000m at 1850. The precision has a i5, 2GB DDR3-1333 and maxes at 2000m.
But again, how far the graphic card is bottlenecked by the memory and bus rate may push me to a M6600 opening the 256bit DDR5 cards starting at the Quadro 3000m, but would also push the price north of 2 grand.

Here are my views:

The Lenovo has the faster processor and RAM and as standard it comes with 4GB as opposed to 2GB (I have no idea why Dell are still shipping machines with only 2GB of RAM but there you go, they're not the only OEM to do so I guess), but it costs a bit more than the Dell. Given the choice, I'd probably spend the extra actually and get the Lenovo, and I honestly wouldn't worry about those bus rate bottlenecks too much - they're certainly not worth losing sleep over. I wouldn't go over 2 grand unless you have the money and are really concerned about the bottleneck.

The Dell is a nice machine if you don't want to spend a ton on the ThinkPad, but in the long run with the quad-core CPU and the faster memory, I reckon the Lenovo would probably last you longer. What do you think?

I never though it would be this hard to shop for a laptop. I just want to be sure I get a laptop that will do 250% of what I need that way when I demand more there is reserve. If that makes sense.

Yes it does make sense. I've always found shopping for laptops is much harder than shopping for desktops, especially if you want a high-performing machine.

 

[wolfeking]

Yes, it would.


Isn't that when we all like to game?

I am not sure. I love being able to game at school, because the material is far too easy for me and 99% of the time I'm done with it in 20 minutes or less.

20 FPS is OK at 1200p, you can always run MW3 at a lower resolution and lower settings and achieve a higher FPS.

I know that, but I did not see a much higher FPS at 720p than at 1200p. Once you reduce the resolution from 1080p, you start offloading work to the CPU, which is barely good enough if I recall right.

Here are my views:

The Lenovo has the faster processor and RAM and as standard it comes with 4GB as opposed to 2GB (I have no idea why Dell are still shipping machines with only 2GB of RAM but there you go, they're not the only OEM to do so I guess), but it costs a bit more than the Dell. Given the choice, I'd probably spend the extra actually and get the Lenovo, and I honestly wouldn't worry about those bus rate bottlenecks too much - they're certainly not worth losing sleep over. I wouldn't go over 2 grand unless you have the money and are really concerned about the bottleneck.

The Dell is a nice machine if you don't want to spend a ton on the ThinkPad, but in the long run with the quad-core CPU and the faster memory, I reckon the Lenovo would probably last you longer. What do you think?

I like the looks of the thinkpad. It is worth the extra I think. I am not really sure about the bottleneck, I never really felt it on the 540m. but then again, I do not know if I am comfortable spending 1500+ for a laptop that has a bottleneck, even if it is theoretical.

Yes it does make sense. I've always found shopping for laptops is much harder than shopping for desktops, especially if you want a high-performing machine.

True. I think of it this way, there is only a couple of things I will be able to change if I don't like it. RAM, Hard drive, Battery Size, and wireless card. If I do not like my desktop I am not limited with what to replace. though I think I am letting it rest for now as it is doing what I ask of it, and there is probably not much I can do soon anyway.

 

[spirit]

I love being able to game at school, because the material is far too easy for me and 99% of the time I'm done with it in 20 minutes or less.

I see I'm not the only one who is not stretched enough in IT at school. I would love to sit there and game all lesson, but I don't have a laptop to take to school and lugging my desktop around isn't the most convenient as thanks to that 5870 it's bloody heavy. Even if I did have a laptop, I wouldn't be allowed to take it school.

I like the looks of the thinkpad. It is worth the extra I think. I am not really sure about the bottleneck, I never really felt it on the 540m. but then again, I do not know if I am comfortable spending 1500+ for a laptop that has a bottleneck, even if it is theoretical.

I wouldn't worry too much about the bottleneck, Wolfe. It's still a great laptop and it will be well-built as it's from Lenovo. I reckon the W530 would be a solid choice for you and would last you a while.

True. I think of it this way, there is only a couple of things I will be able to change if I don't like it. RAM, Hard drive, Battery Size, and wireless card. If I do not like my desktop I am not limited with what to replace.

That's my number one gripe with laptops which is probably why I don't own one anymore. I just love changing and messing around with hardware, and with a laptop you just can't do that really. Sometimes you can change the screens too. Some of the members on the TP Forums had FlexView screens on their older TPs, not sure if you can change the screens on the newer TPs though.

 

[wolfeking]

If you have enough patience any part of a laptop can be changed. That being said, some parts are not worth it to replace.

And just figuring at this point, what about eurocom? I have looked at them before because they offer a laptop style server, and Windows XP. But I was looking at http://web.eurocom.com/EC/ec_model_config1(1,225,0) configured with: 1080p 95% NTSC LED
Quadro 3000m
3610QM
8GB DDR3-1600

everything else is stock, and no OS selected as I prefer Vista and there are drivers out there for it. Its $1880 as I configured it, which should be $130 over the Lenovo, but I am not sure of the company. Ill try to find some reviews and see how they are.

Most likely going with the W530 though.

 

[spirit]

The link doesn't work for me but looking at the spec you it's pretty similar to the W530 yet it costs more. I'd get the W530 and upgrade the RAM yourself. RAM is so cheap anyway you may as well just get as much as you can. I'd also stick to the W530 as Lenovo is a pretty reliable brand and their machines tend to be of very good quality.

 

[wolfeking]

the graphics card is the next step up too.

 

[spirit]

the graphics card is the next step up too.

Yeah true. Is it worth $130 extra though? That's the question you've gotta ask yourself.

 

[wolfeking]

I am not sure. Its a laptop, so they mark it up. And most here generally recommend spending the extra on a 6790 over the 6770, so the 3000m is the same basic thing. More bandwidth, faster memory, and a few more cores.

I don't know. I think I am worrying about nothing, and overthinking it. I am going to make a more general thread though to get more input on the 2 that we narrowed down, and ask about eurocom.

 

[spirit]

Yeah you're doing what I tend to do and doing a bit *too much* research and thinking. The difference in price between say a 6770 and 6790 is not 130 bucks, whereas the difference between these two laptops is, and the GPU is the main difference.

I'd go for the W530 myself. Good brand, nice spec, generally a great all rounder IMO.