Wake On Lan

magicman

magicman

VIP Member
I've got two computers wirelessly networked (one through a wireless router), and I'd like to set it up for WOL, despite not having a network card or motherboard that is WOL compliant.

This may be complete lunacy even suggesting it, but is there a way to rig an WOL setup that's external to the motherboard or Bios - something to sit between the power supply and power on switch, that can take over the job of the Bios?

I just don't want to have to replace half a dozen components to be able to remotely turn on one of my pc's.
 
Trizoy

Trizoy

VIP Member
Well I can imagine how this would work, but I highly doubt it exists.

We could call it a "Wake on Wireless" network device.
Simply plug in the device to an external socket, and jump line to the power computers power switch line. The WOW device would have its own wireless footprint to the router, thus doesnt require the machine to be on, or half on. The device could have a web based interface with remote web management. It would be like a router, but you simply login, and turn on your pc. Then you are able to use whatever servers, or remote access programs you wish to use.

It sounds like a simple enough device to create... The power it could save for the home user who likes to retrieve files at random times would be great!

I havent heard of anything like this, but I would be interested. I could write an email to a few companies...


Edit: I just thought of a REALLY dumb way to do this... You get a webcam which is its own device, and is always one. Make sure you can transmit to a webpage somewhere and control it. Place a simple switch jumped to the power swithc lone of the pc. When you turn the camera all the way to the right or left, it throws the switch, and boots the pc....

Hmm, i might have to check up on this idea! Ill post a link to a webcam if i find one.
 
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magicman

magicman

VIP Member
Wow, that's a level of improvisation I had never contemplated - you definately have a brain-storming brain, Trizoy! :p

Something like that 'Wake On Wireless' would be ideal, should it exist. Like you said, common sense dictates it's technically possible, but whether some bright spark has taken the time to design and build one, is another matter.

If anyone knew of such a device, they'd be my new best friend... :)
 
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SirKenin

banned
Unfortunately as you are aware the mobo has to support WOL. If it doesn't, there went your only option that I am aware of. :(
 
magicman

magicman

VIP Member
Well the motherboard just listens for the magic packet on the ethernet port, using CMOS battery charge as a power source (not sure about that point come to think of it). The power on switch is just that, a simple switch, so if there were some way for an external wireless device with some kind of WOL (and its own mains power supply) to be rigged up to close the power on switch, that'd work, surely?

?????
 
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SirKenin

banned
The power on is controlled by the motherboard in an ATX setup. No signal from the mobo, the PSU doesn't power up. That's the thing. I'm not sure how you would get around that.
 
magicman

magicman

VIP Member
When you push the power button, the circuit completes and the motherboard knows to power on the PSU. Surely can't you just parallel that switch to another device?
 
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SirKenin

banned
See, it's not quite that simple. I hear what you are saying, and I do believe I understand where you are coming from, but it's a little bit more than that. True, the switch completes a loop and sends an on signal to the circuitry. The trick of it, what you will be facing as far as I can see, is how to replicate that loop by use of circuitry, and unfortunately it has been 15 years since I have studied computer electronics circutries in depth (I took it in college, along with binary and everything else that seems to have no use nowadays).

OHHH!!! I know how to do it. A transistor is a switch. If you can get a signal from the remote computer to set a signal to one of the poles on the transistor, you can get the transistor to complete the circuit to the mobo, and let the mobo circuitry do the rest as normal. That would work. You would have to create yourself a circuit board. You can buy all the parts you need at Radio Shack or something.

You would have to design the circuitry to send 5V to the base. You would hook the ground up to the collector. Then you would hook the positive lead to the emitter. So, you could tap into the leads for the power switch for the collector and emitter, and then have your 5V coming from your WOL device. Less than 5V, the switch is open, or in an off or zero state. 5V and the switch is in a closed, or in an on or one state.

Does that make any sense at all??? :confused:
 
magicman

magicman

VIP Member
SirKenin said:
Does that make any sense at all??? :confused:
Click to expand...
It does make sense, I only just follow since I didn't study physics or elecronics past the age of 13 and am far more clueless than you are on the subject. I certainly wouldn't be able to home-make a device like that. The problem IMO would be getting a Wireless WOL device to emit and regulate the voltage. If one WOL device existed that comprised all that you've said, with a splitter for the power-on circuit and the ability to complete the one half of the split circuit it was connected to, I would be very happy. I've yet to find one in my trawl through the web though.
 
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SirKenin

banned
Ok, well creating the voltage isn't a problem. I can help you with designing a circuit that will step up the voltage to 5V. Hell, in a worst case scenario you could always go buy an adapter or something, but I'm thinking that we can tap off of the PSU, rather than spending money we don't need to spend. I hate spending money. I'm cheap. I only like spending money if it's nice clothes or cool toys (whether I need them or not). That's not the problem. The problem, as you've figured out, is getting the WOL signal. We have to figure out the origins of that signal and what to put on the receiving end to trigger the transistor. I guess it is going to require a little bit of research, cuz I honestly have no bloody idea at this point. lolol :D

At least we have somewhere to start. Do you happen to have a WOL compatible NIC kicking around? Are you good with a soldering iron and solder (it's not too hard, but a steady hand is a must). Those would be a good start. I'm hoping that we can steal parts off of the NIC. If you try, and it gets damaged, it's no great loss. They're a dime a dozen.

Heh.. This could be fun if we could figure it out. Maybe there will be a use for that damn class after all. haha. :D
 
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SirKenin

banned
Ok. I did a little snooping and the device you need to detect the magic packet from the remote computer is an 824-00178. You will also need voltage regulator. We'll have to use a step-up transformer to bring the signal up to 5V to go to the base of the transistor.

Are you with me so far? If so, we can go into more detail about what else you will need. If this is over your head, feel free to say so.
 
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Dngrsone

VIP Member
To turn the ATX computer on, one only needs a ground applied to the enable pin on the motherboard header.

The enable pin (of the two the switch connects to) is the one with 5v sitting on it with the ATX power supply powered and the computer is off. So the hard part, really, is making sure that the low provided by the detection machanism is the same as a low on the computer, therefore you will want to have a common ground between the two devices.

The level of complication in this thread seems rather high considering a WOL capable 10/100 NIC costs all of about $10; one could easily craft an interface between the WOL output of the NIC to utilise the power switch vice WOL connection if the motherboard doesn't have one, though most modern motherboards do (some even do WOL through the PCI bus rather than an external connection).

At worst, you might need to use a buffer or inverter between the NIC's WOL output and the power switch header. You can power it via the +5v STBY used by the motherboard's power-on detect circuitry.
 
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SirKenin

banned
See, it doesn't matter if the NIC is WOL capable or not. If the motherboard (and by extension the BIOS) doesn't support it, it will not work. The impression that we have here is that his board does not support it at all. If it supports it through the BIOS and BUS then that is a whole new matter completely.

I have a circuit diagram for a NIC sitting here on my desktop, along with the chip I told him to use.

edit: I never thought about using that plug on the NIC.. I'm going to do some looking into that right now.
 
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magicman

magicman

VIP Member
Thanks for looking into it. Bear in mind, if it requires heavy soldering or complex circuit diagrams, I'd be giving it a miss. SirKenin's right, the motherboard in question doesn't support anything to do with WOL, it a K8T Neo-FIS2R . So a WOL NIC card wouldn't do a whole lot of good I don't think - it would still require a WOL mobo.

But I agree, Dngrsone, the level of complication is exceeding the standard level - especially if you go by the Off Topic forum :p
 
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SirKenin

banned
Okay. You can't use the connector on the card. It pumps out 5V, which would either fry your power switch on your motherboard or fry the magnetics... It can't have any power going through it, because the motherboard sends a voltage through the line.

Edit: Just caught your above post. Is that too complicated a solution for you? It will work, I guarantee it, but it might be more than you bargained for. If it is I understand.. But it's fun putting some of that wasted college knowledge to use for a change (albeit 15 years after the fact). If you want I can show you how to build your own NIC.. hehe
 
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Dngrsone

VIP Member
SirKenin said:
See, it doesn't matter if the NIC is WOL capable or not. If the motherboard (and by extension the BIOS) doesn't support it, it will not work. The impression that we have here is that his board does not support it at all. If it supports it through the BIOS and BUS then that is a whole new matter completely.

Also, soldering onto the NIC card in the slot makes absolutely no sense, considering you will probably fry the magnetic if you try it.

I have a circuit diagram for a NIC sitting here on my desktop, along with the chip I told him to use.
Click to expand...

I must disagree-- Wake on LAN is just another way to turn the computer on; there's no reason why one can't adapt that for use via the power-on header. The only problem I can foresee is powering the NIC-- I don't know where the +5vSTBY goes other than the USB ports and the power-on detect circuitry, so for all I know, non-WOL boards may not apply it to the PCI bus...
 
magicman

magicman

VIP Member
Lol, I appreciate both of yours entheusiasm, and this has been a bit of an experiment of imagination. If so much effort (an in my case a learning curve) would be required to set it up manually, I'd just as soon buy another motherboard, replace it and sell the Non-WOL one.

I wasn't under the impression that non-WOL motherboards had their PCI buses powered, but I wouldn't swear to it. Either way, I think I've finally come up with a new idea to sell to Belkin and make my millions. :p

I somehow wish I took my Physics GCSE at school...
 
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