What should I spend my money on?

H

Humbick

New Member
Hey guys, Im getting a computer built and am having trouble picking between a few rigs (1 Alienware and 1 Thunderbox, im leaning towards thunderbox now because of the very personal tech support).

OK, first let me ask a few quick questions... first of all, is the following statement true: "All of the AMD platforms use DDR1 RAM, which is really to your benefit. DDR2 offers no real performance improvement but costs a good bit more. As for the 667MHz DDR2, you will only benefit from that with a heavy dose of overclocking. It runs at DDR2 533 by default." It is very important, because Im leaning toward going with an AMD chipset right now and I wanna know if not having DDR2 RAM will be worse than having PDP PC3200 RAM with my AMD.

Next, which company would you prefer, Alienware or Thunderbox?

Here are the two rigs I am comparing:

[1] Area-51® 7500 - $2,863 shipped after $500 in rebates

Processor: Intel® Pentium® Processor 830 w/ Dual Core Technology 3.0GHz 800MHz FSB
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support with Onsite Service
Power Supply: Alienware® 550 Watt Max Power Supply
Chassis: Alienware® Full-Tower Case - Saucer Silver
Chassis Upgrades: AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System with Acoustic Dampening - Astral Blue
Motherboard: Alienware® nForce™4 SLI™ Intel Edition Chipset Motherboard PCI Express SLI
Graphics Processor: NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7800 GTX PCI Express 256MB DDR3 w/Dual Digital and TV Out
Video Optimizer: AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 x 1024MB
System Drive: Extreme Performance - Serial ATA RAID 0 - 500GB (250GB x 2) Serial ATA 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache
Primary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Secondary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Sound Card: Integrated High-Performance 7.1 Surround Sound with S/PDIF and Coaxial Digital Outputs
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet
Portable Storage : Alienware® 10-in-1 Digital Media Reader / Writer
Monitor: No Monitor
Cable Management: Alienware® Cable Management System
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
Desktop Enhancements: Exclusive AlienGUIse Theme Manager
AlienInspection: AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - $99.99 Value - FREE!
AlienWiring: AlienWiring - Exclusive Internal Wire Management - $99.99 Value - FREE!

---or----

Savage FX (939) - $3,060 shipped (no rebates)
Shipping: Ground Shipping (Shipping Charge: $78)
Service: 1yr Parts + Labor Warranty, Lifetime Support
Case: Lian Li PC-V1000 2x120mm (Silver)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 4200+X2 Dual Core
Heatsink: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu 92mm
Video Card: Geforce 7800GTX 256MB w/ Battlefield 2
Tuning: Standard Performance Tuning
Motherboard: Abit AN8-SLI, SLI Ready
RAM: 2.0GB (2x1024) PDP PC3200 2.3.2.5
Bay 1: Lite-On 16x Dual Layer DVDRW w/ Nero 6
Bay 2: 52x/16x CDRW+DVD Combo w/ Nero 6
Cables: Rounded IDE and Floppy Cables
HDD: 250GB SATA2 7200rpm 16mb cache
2nd HDD: 250GB SATA2 7200rpm 16mb cache
PCI RAID: Dual Onboard 4 Channel SATA RAID
RAID: Raid 0, Enhanced Performance
Power: OCZ Powerstream 600W w/ sleeved cables
Sound Card: Use Onboard 7.1 Audio
Floppy: 1.44MB Floppy
Network: Onboard Gigabit Lan
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Recovery: Personal System Recovery Disk




Now, I am planning on installing my Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Plat. into either rig (Jon from Thunderbox is actually gonna do it for me!) so dont mind the onboard audio. Which PC would you guys go with? Please please help me and tell me why, i wanna make the right decision and u guys know your stuff the best... From what ive been reading AMD cards have been better stability and for gaming lately. Should I upgrade to the 4400+ on the Thunderbox system for like 60$?

Any help will seriously be appreciated. Thanks in advance!!
 
jancz3rt

jancz3rt

<b>VIP Member</b>
Haha

It really depends on you. I would lean towards the second because I prefer AMDs and because the X2 4200+ is a better overall performer than the dual core Pentium that the Alienware PC has. However, I think that by choosing either, the performance will be awesome!

JAN :D
 
H

Humbick

New Member
ahh cool.. thanks for your opinion... anyone else?




also, is the RAM in the alienware system better than the RAM in the thunderbox rig?
 
jancz3rt

jancz3rt

<b>VIP Member</b>
Heya

I would not really stress about the RAM. Although in the first case, it is DDR2, that does not mean that it's awfully faster. In fact, I would guess that the second would perform better in games for example. DDR2 has high latencies and that's its downside. DDR can have very good latencies and perform very well. I will let someone more knowledgeable say something about this matter, but AMD will skip DDR2 according to runmours and move on to DDR3 or something of that sort.

JAN :D
 
Geoff

Geoff

VIP Member
its obvious he wants it for games, you can tell my what he picked. I think the second one is a little on the steap side, but if you want a pre-built one, i would go with the 2nd one.
 
Praetor

Praetor

Administrator
Staff member
its obvious he wants it for games, you can tell my what he picked.
Click to expand...
I dunno what you do for fun and games but I certainly enjoyed "playing" around with Adobe Premier on a Pentium EE 840.

nuff said.
 
Praetor

Praetor

Administrator
Staff member
AMDs dual-core cards kick Intel's ass, including Adobe Premier.. im definatel leaning towards the 2nd system, even though its not alienware
Click to expand...
I duno what you're reading but everything from page9 and on generally has Intel leading the pack. Regardless, we're getting off topic.
 
H

Humbick

New Member
bump!

I really would appreciate a few more opinions...

Thanks for the current help though, the RAM 101 really helped me understand latencies and those numbers that people use to talk about RAM timings.

The RAM im planning on getting, as you can see, is PC3200 (DDR400?) and has speeds of 2.3.2.5. Im pretty sure this is good, though after researching, Ive learned that the 2nd number is the most important. Should I shell out some extra $$ to upgrade to RAM that has 2.2.2.5 timings?

Also, should I dish out an extra $60 or so to upgrade from AMD 64 4200+ x2 to the AMD 64 4400+ x2 (they are both 2.2Ghz each, but the 4400+ has 1MB L2 Cache per chip as opposed to the 4200+'s 512KB L2 Cache per chip)?
 
Praetor

Praetor

Administrator
Staff member
bump!
Click to expand...
Hehe is it really neccesary to bump so soon? ;)

The RAM im planning on getting, as you can see, is PC3200 (DDR400?) and has speeds of 2.3.2.5. Im pretty sure this is good, though after researching, Ive learned that the 2nd number is the most important. Should I shell out some extra $$ to upgrade to RAM that has 2.2.2.5 timings?
Click to expand...
Its the first number (the CAS latency, sometimes abbreviated CL) that's most important and determines the overall price and performance of the module. So as things stands, you're memory is good :)

Also, should I dish out an extra $60 or so to upgrade from AMD 64 4200+ x2 to the AMD 64 4400+ x2 (they are both 2.2Ghz each, but the 4400+ has 1MB L2 Cache per chip as opposed to the 4200+'s 512KB L2 Cache per chip)?
Click to expand...
IMO, i wouldnt fork out the $60 to upgrade from 4200 to 4400 since the only difference is an extra 512K cache per core (and since AMD processors havnt really ever been L2 bound it, imo, isnt worth it)
 
L

lilm3boi

New Member
Humbick said:
Hey guys, Im getting a computer built and am having trouble picking between a few rigs (1 Alienware and 1 Thunderbox, im leaning towards thunderbox now because of the very personal tech support).

OK, first let me ask a few quick questions... first of all, is the following statement true: "All of the AMD platforms use DDR1 RAM, which is really to your benefit. DDR2 offers no real performance improvement but costs a good bit more. As for the 667MHz DDR2, you will only benefit from that with a heavy dose of overclocking. It runs at DDR2 533 by default." It is very important, because Im leaning toward going with an AMD chipset right now and I wanna know if not having DDR2 RAM will be worse than having PDP PC3200 RAM with my AMD.

Next, which company would you prefer, Alienware or Thunderbox?

Here are the two rigs I am comparing:

[1] Area-51® 7500 - $2,863 shipped after $500 in rebates

Processor: Intel® Pentium® Processor 830 w/ Dual Core Technology 3.0GHz 800MHz FSB
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support with Onsite Service
Power Supply: Alienware® 550 Watt Max Power Supply
Chassis: Alienware® Full-Tower Case - Saucer Silver
Chassis Upgrades: AlienIce™ 2.0 Video Cooling System with Acoustic Dampening - Astral Blue
Motherboard: Alienware® nForce™4 SLI™ Intel Edition Chipset Motherboard PCI Express SLI
Graphics Processor: NVIDIA® GeForce™ 7800 GTX PCI Express 256MB DDR3 w/Dual Digital and TV Out
Video Optimizer: AlienAdrenaline: Video Performance Optimizer
Memory: 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 x 1024MB
System Drive: Extreme Performance - Serial ATA RAID 0 - 500GB (250GB x 2) Serial ATA 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache
Primary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Drive
Secondary CD ROM/DVD ROM: 52x32x52x CD-RW Drive
Sound Card: Integrated High-Performance 7.1 Surround Sound with S/PDIF and Coaxial Digital Outputs
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet
Portable Storage : Alienware® 10-in-1 Digital Media Reader / Writer
Monitor: No Monitor
Cable Management: Alienware® Cable Management System
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
Desktop Enhancements: Exclusive AlienGUIse Theme Manager
AlienInspection: AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - $99.99 Value - FREE!
AlienWiring: AlienWiring - Exclusive Internal Wire Management - $99.99 Value - FREE!

---or----

Savage FX (939) - $3,060 shipped (no rebates)
Shipping: Ground Shipping (Shipping Charge: $78)
Service: 1yr Parts + Labor Warranty, Lifetime Support
Case: Lian Li PC-V1000 2x120mm (Silver)
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 4200+X2 Dual Core
Heatsink: Zalman CNPS7000-Cu 92mm
Video Card: Geforce 7800GTX 256MB w/ Battlefield 2
Tuning: Standard Performance Tuning
Motherboard: Abit AN8-SLI, SLI Ready
RAM: 2.0GB (2x1024) PDP PC3200 2.3.2.5
Bay 1: Lite-On 16x Dual Layer DVDRW w/ Nero 6
Bay 2: 52x/16x CDRW+DVD Combo w/ Nero 6
Cables: Rounded IDE and Floppy Cables
HDD: 250GB SATA2 7200rpm 16mb cache
2nd HDD: 250GB SATA2 7200rpm 16mb cache
PCI RAID: Dual Onboard 4 Channel SATA RAID
RAID: Raid 0, Enhanced Performance
Power: OCZ Powerstream 600W w/ sleeved cables
Sound Card: Use Onboard 7.1 Audio
Floppy: 1.44MB Floppy
Network: Onboard Gigabit Lan
OS: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Recovery: Personal System Recovery Disk




Now, I am planning on installing my Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS Plat. into either rig (Jon from Thunderbox is actually gonna do it for me!) so dont mind the onboard audio. Which PC would you guys go with? Please please help me and tell me why, i wanna make the right decision and u guys know your stuff the best... From what ive been reading AMD cards have been better stability and for gaming lately. Should I upgrade to the 4400+ on the Thunderbox system for like 60$?

Any help will seriously be appreciated. Thanks in advance!!
Click to expand...


I think by installing something you are voiding the warranty. Check it out though.
 
F

flame1117

banned
I would go for the 2ed...what are you going to be using the system for?

And to MY understanding, the statment you said about DDR and DDR2 at at least mostwhat right.
 
H

Humbick

New Member
thanks frame.. thats an answer to a question i was definately looking for... im also glad you agree on the 2nd system (its made by ThunderBox and im pretty much definately going with them)... im going to be using the PC for everything; gaming (BF2 mainly for now), work stuff (presentations, word, excel, everything), and as a media pc (i have a huuuuge mp3 and video collection, plenty of porn, and got it hooked up to my 42" screen and my master remote). In addition, I host sites, have all my pictures over the past years, photoshop, etc... What Im mainly hoping for is to feed memory hungry windows xp (though this thunderbox guy is configuring it nicely to run as smooth as possible) and I am a multitasker who always has Itunes playing music while I play a game while browser windows are open in the background or on my other screen, and antivirus antispyware shit running in the background and some folders open, downloading a torrent or two... you get the picture



I think by installing something you are voiding the warranty. Check it out though.
Click to expand...
originally posted by lilm3boi

Lilm3boi, the owner of thunderbox, who has been configuring my rig with me, is allowing me to send in my SB Audigy 2ZS Plat. (and my 802.11 card for PCI Slot) and hes installing it for me, no void to warranty either (since i have original manufacturers warranty). Very nice guy, great company.



Hehe is it really neccesary to bump so soon?
Click to expand...
originally posted by Praetor

yea man it is, im planning on buying this system tomorrrow, thursday at the very latest.

also, i thought i read somewhere while researching that the CAS to RAS was most important timing, but that theyre all important. Jon (owner of thunderbox) told me that it is very hard and costly to get RAM thats 2-2-2-5 and that its not enough to be worth it.
 
Praetor

Praetor

Administrator
Staff member
im going to be using the PC for everything; gaming (BF2 mainly for now), work stuff (presentations, word, excel, everything), and as a media pc (i have a huuuuge mp3 and video collection, plenty of porn, and got it hooked up to my 42" screen and my master remote). In addition, I host sites, have all my pictures over the past years, photoshop, etc... What Im mainly hoping for is to feed memory hungry windows xp (though this thunderbox guy is configuring it nicely to run as smooth as possible)
Click to expand...
Well it doesnt matter which processor you're getting although it's prolly better if u get the Athlon64 X2 box :)

also, i thought i read somewhere while researching that the cas to ras was most important timing, but that theyre all important. jon (owner of thunderbox) told me that it is very hard and costly to get ram thats 2-2-2-5 and that its not enough to be worth it.
Click to expand...
RAM 101.
 
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