Aastii
VIP Member
E3, so June
PS4, finally to be unveiled?
- Thread starter tech savvy
- Start date
E3, so June
jonnyp11
New Member
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6770/sony-announces-playstation-4-pc-hardware-inside
Article says the GPU will be around a 7850/7870.
I just wanna know why consoles have GDDR5 system memory and computers don't yet. I know it's a custom built thing but still.
Really this gen seems to be a good deal, but without upgrading it will fall far behind very soon.
On the bright side, devs will push for better graphics which means our computers will finally be challenged by more than one or two games. Unfortunately the PS4 will be stronger than my computer
Article says the GPU will be around a 7850/7870.
I just wanna know why consoles have GDDR5 system memory and computers don't yet. I know it's a custom built thing but still.
Really this gen seems to be a good deal, but without upgrading it will fall far behind very soon.
On the bright side, devs will push for better graphics which means our computers will finally be challenged by more than one or two games. Unfortunately the PS4 will be stronger than my computer
tech savvy
Active Member
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6770/sony-announces-playstation-4-pc-hardware-inside
Article says the GPU will be around a 7850/7870.
I just wanna know why consoles have GDDR5 system memory and computers don't yet. I know it's a custom built thing but still.
Really this gen seems to be a good deal, but without upgrading it will fall far behind very soon.
On the bright side, devs will push for better graphics which means our computers will finally be challenged by more than one or two games. Unfortunately the PS4 will be stronger than my computer
Yes, stronger then most. Stronger then probably 90% of people on this forum.
Article says the GPU will be around a 7850/7870.
I just wanna know why consoles have GDDR5 system memory and computers don't yet. I know it's a custom built thing but still.
Really this gen seems to be a good deal, but without upgrading it will fall far behind very soon.
On the bright side, devs will push for better graphics which means our computers will finally be challenged by more than one or two games. Unfortunately the PS4 will be stronger than my computer
I honestly wouldn't get too upset that a console is more powerful than your PC. Simply upgrade your graphics card to something like a 670 or a 7950 and your CPU to an FX-8320 and job done, you'll be the better gamer again.
Of course it will fall behind quickly. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Xbox 360 is based on Radeon X1800 graphics and the PS3 is based on GeForce 7800/7900 series graphics - both of which are very old GPUs. Why have the Xbox 360 and the PS3 'fallen behind'? Because they're 7 year old consoles and using hardware from the time, which of course has been replaced multiple times over since then. Give it two years and the 7850/7870 will be outdated, and because you can't upgrade a console, the hardware in the console will also be outdated. You are stuck with what you've got.
For the time being, the spec does look good though. But back in 2005/06, the spec for the Xbox 360 and the PS3 also looked good. If the new generation of consoles lasts for as long as the previous/current generation, how will we be looking at the 7850/7870 in 5, 6, 7 years time?
To be honest though, 99% of people who buy consoles don't give a stuff about the specs. They just want something cheap(ish) with online multiplayer support that has a lot of games available for it that they can hook up to their 42" TV and play whilst sitting on the couch.
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EvanK
Member
+1
If people cared about specs, these consoles would be replaced MUCH more often, and nobody would be buying them 7 years after their initial release.
tech savvy
Active Member
But you have to realize that a console doesn't have to run a big OS, or other programs that take a lot of resources. So with that being said, it can dedicate all that hardware purely for gaming. Which makes it a powerful gaming machine.
Exactly.
Yeah I hadn't considered that. That's a good point, but more and more of these consoles are getting all sorts of other programs for them. They're not just for gaming now. You can get Netflix and other stuff on them now too. But you can't deny that in 5, 6, 7 years time the 7850 and 7870 will be outdated GPUs. We will be looking at them in 7 years time in exactly the same way we are looking at the X1800 and the 7900 GT now.
The PS4 looks powerful now, but like all consoles, give it two years or so and it'll be outdated in terms of the hardware inside.
Aastii
VIP Member
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6770/sony-announces-playstation-4-pc-hardware-inside
Article says the GPU will be around a 7850/7870.
I just wanna know why consoles have GDDR5 system memory and computers don't yet. I know it's a custom built thing but still.
Really this gen seems to be a good deal, but without upgrading it will fall far behind very soon.
On the bright side, devs will push for better graphics which means our computers will finally be challenged by more than one or two games. Unfortunately the PS4 will be stronger than my computer
I think you will find we have been using GDDR5 RAM for the last 3 generations of graphics cards
Since the GeForce 400 and Radeon 5000 series, we have been rocking GDDR5. It is also based of DDR3 memory, which we have been using for almost 6 years now, so yes, we do have GDDR5 and we have had it for years.
jonnyp11
New Member
I think you will find we have been using GDDR5 RAM for the last 3 generations of graphics cards
We dont have ddr5 system ram is what i meant, i know graphics cards have gddr5, mine does.
tech savvy
Active Member
I knew what you meant, if it matters.
Speaking of; why aren't we using DDR5 for system RAM yet?
Aastii
VIP Member
Because we don't have DDR4 yet and 5 hasn't been developed.
GDDR5 =/= DDR5, it is based on DDR3, as is GDDR4 memory
Okedokey
Well-Known Member
No need for it as yet. Same for pcie 3, SATA 6GB and a number of other technologies.
People worry about theses and then run a standard hdd, amazes me.
G80FTW
Active Member
I just watched almost 2 hours of the press conference. And I believe I witnessed the final stab in the heart of PC gaming. Perhaps dead as we know it. Given that Crysis 3 was supposed to be the best looking game on PC, Crytek showed us that even the last good developer for PC doesnt care about the PC gamer anymore.
Iv been watching for the past decade as consoles continue to be the game developement focus and PC being left as the secondary platform for gaming. And it disgust me. The PS4 may be the best thing technologically since the transistor, but its still hardware that will become obsolete within a year or 2 and as far as what I seen will still not be upgradable. Which is why I love me PC and its hardware.
That said, Im certainly setting money aside for the PS4. Im not sure that Microsoft can top what I just saw.
Iv been watching for the past decade as consoles continue to be the game developement focus and PC being left as the secondary platform for gaming. And it disgust me. The PS4 may be the best thing technologically since the transistor, but its still hardware that will become obsolete within a year or 2 and as far as what I seen will still not be upgradable. Which is why I love me PC and its hardware.
That said, Im certainly setting money aside for the PS4. Im not sure that Microsoft can top what I just saw.
Troncoso
VIP Member
Again, hardware doesn't matter anymore. "Why don't we have DDR5 RAM?" Why do we need it? What can't you do with DDR3?
Hardware is far beyond that in terms of the power needed to run games/applications. So, until the PS4's hardware can't handle the games that developers want to put on it, then no, it won't become obsolete.
Hardware is far beyond that in terms of the power needed to run games/applications. So, until the PS4's hardware can't handle the games that developers want to put on it, then no, it won't become obsolete.
Okedokey
Well-Known Member
Crysis 3 will rape the ps4 at PC quality.
Justin
VIP Member
What's with all making a fuss about the hardware being obsolete in a couple of years? Every console has been like that.
My PS3 is 6 years old and newer games like Need for Speed: Most Wanted run and still look good. I know they could look better on a PC but it isn't horrifying to look at that makes you want to gouge your eyes out.
If Sony had their way and made their own hardware instead of using off the shelf PC parts, developers will have a hard time like Bethesda did with the PS3.
I'm going to buy one. The Steam Box can wait.
My PS3 is 6 years old and newer games like Need for Speed: Most Wanted run and still look good. I know they could look better on a PC but it isn't horrifying to look at that makes you want to gouge your eyes out.
If Sony had their way and made their own hardware instead of using off the shelf PC parts, developers will have a hard time like Bethesda did with the PS3.
I'm going to buy one. The Steam Box can wait.
jonnyp11
New Member
Um, pretty sure an 8-core jaguar core and 7850/7870 level gpu on the same die isn't off the shelf, plus shared GDDR5 RAM for the system.
tech savvy
Active Member
It's not the fact that we don't need it, it's that we want it. If it's available, why not? We don't need SSD's either, but we want them/have them.
Edit:
DDR5 offers what over DDR3? Faster speeds, more reliable, higher memory bandwidths, etc..
Lamborghini offers what over Daewoo? Faster speeds, more reliable, more comfortable ride, more horse power, and of course, more beautiful.
Do we need all that so called luxury?No, but we want it.
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Aastii
VIP Member
With regards to GDDR5 memory, there is a reason we do not have it, in fact several fairly obvious reasons.
Firstly, as has been said, so far as performance is concerned it is not necessary. The way the PS4 works and the way a PC works are similar but different, the same as all consoles are. Whenever you play a game on PC, 9 times out of 10 it is the CPU or graphics card holding you back, not your memory. Outside of games, it is your CPU or hard drive, or the density of the memory, again, not the speed of your memory. You could throw in an extra theoretical 4GB/s or so speed to your RAM, but it won't actually show any difference at all.
You could argue, as it has been, that hardware such as SSD's is not 100% necesary right now, because even a top end SSD is still a bottleneck when it is involved in the transfer of data, so why not throw out the high speed memory to PC's as well, but that leads into point 2, the introduction of DDR4 memory. This is expected sometime between 2013-2014, so it is possible that we could see it some time later this year, though I personally doubt that. With DDR4 coming so soon all of the development work put into making the memory work with your modern computer would be completely worthless in 12 months time. For a hardware manufacturer, that is pissing money away.
Then point number three which is tied into that, no consumer in their right mind would drop money on new memory, a new motherboard and likely a new CPU as a new memory controller would be needed when they cannot upgrade from it and when what they have will be very far behind within the space of a few months. This isn't like a new graphics card coming out every 12 months or so, because you can't get rid of your old and get a new. With this you would have to get yet another new motherboard, new CPU and new memory. For 99% of users this is not practical so they will not buy it, making all of the aforementioned money spent on developing a system to utilise the memory by hardware manufacturers wasted
Not only is it not necessary, it is not practical to implement in the slightest right now. Let them have their moment and then in a year's time scoff when you go to DDR4, if specs rather than real world performance really do get you hot and bothered.
I don't believe anybody has ever been more wrong on these forums.
First off, PC gaming is still a hell of a lot more popular than consoles. Right now the number 1 game in the world, League of Legends, is a PC exclusive game. They have more users than there are active XBL subscribers, they have more E-Sports tournament money than any other game in history with more spectators than any other game in history.
You take into account all PC exclusive games, like all of your MMO's, the main Sims games, the rest of the MOBA games besides the previously mentioned LoL, not only does the PC beat the Xbox, it beats all of the three major consoles so far as sales and user figures are concerned combined.
And then consider the Facebook and browser games. Than in itself adds another 7, if not 8, figure number onto the number of users. I personally don't fully count these though, as your think of PC gaming, you think of a desktop or laptop, and a lot of these users are not on tablets, however the majority are still on their PC.
Secondly, companies are not developing for PC any more? Come on... The biggest games of the last decade originated on PC and are still developed for PC, like CoD, which was PC only or MoH, which was PC only. Then look at more recent games that have been major talking points, Minecraft, LoL, Dayz, all of them are either still PC exclusive or developed mainly for PC. To say no team is developing for PC, yet failing to look at the likes of Mojang, Riot, Bohemia, Blizzard, Valve and Creative Assembly and the countless indie developers is extremely ignorant and short sighted. Even your developers selling games on more than one platform, like Activision and EA still develop and sell their games on PC.
Thirdly, you are ignoring mods completely. Most developers make an extremely good platform and they bug fix but stop. That means on a console you get what you are given. With PC though, the mod community will keep people coming. You mention Crysis 3 being the best looking game on PC, but I would argue that Crysis 1 with mods, GTA4 with mods or even the upcoming Arma 3 as standard look far better.
People said at the release of the PS3 and 360 that PC gaming was now over. Just look how wrong they are. You think that if a developer stopped making games for PC completely that there aren't 100 that will come and fill their spot with equally as good or better games? PC gaming is going nowhere, now or in the foreseeable future
Firstly, as has been said, so far as performance is concerned it is not necessary. The way the PS4 works and the way a PC works are similar but different, the same as all consoles are. Whenever you play a game on PC, 9 times out of 10 it is the CPU or graphics card holding you back, not your memory. Outside of games, it is your CPU or hard drive, or the density of the memory, again, not the speed of your memory. You could throw in an extra theoretical 4GB/s or so speed to your RAM, but it won't actually show any difference at all.
You could argue, as it has been, that hardware such as SSD's is not 100% necesary right now, because even a top end SSD is still a bottleneck when it is involved in the transfer of data, so why not throw out the high speed memory to PC's as well, but that leads into point 2, the introduction of DDR4 memory. This is expected sometime between 2013-2014, so it is possible that we could see it some time later this year, though I personally doubt that. With DDR4 coming so soon all of the development work put into making the memory work with your modern computer would be completely worthless in 12 months time. For a hardware manufacturer, that is pissing money away.
Then point number three which is tied into that, no consumer in their right mind would drop money on new memory, a new motherboard and likely a new CPU as a new memory controller would be needed when they cannot upgrade from it and when what they have will be very far behind within the space of a few months. This isn't like a new graphics card coming out every 12 months or so, because you can't get rid of your old and get a new. With this you would have to get yet another new motherboard, new CPU and new memory. For 99% of users this is not practical so they will not buy it, making all of the aforementioned money spent on developing a system to utilise the memory by hardware manufacturers wasted
Not only is it not necessary, it is not practical to implement in the slightest right now. Let them have their moment and then in a year's time scoff when you go to DDR4, if specs rather than real world performance really do get you hot and bothered.
I don't believe anybody has ever been more wrong on these forums.
First off, PC gaming is still a hell of a lot more popular than consoles. Right now the number 1 game in the world, League of Legends, is a PC exclusive game. They have more users than there are active XBL subscribers, they have more E-Sports tournament money than any other game in history with more spectators than any other game in history.
You take into account all PC exclusive games, like all of your MMO's, the main Sims games, the rest of the MOBA games besides the previously mentioned LoL, not only does the PC beat the Xbox, it beats all of the three major consoles so far as sales and user figures are concerned combined.
And then consider the Facebook and browser games. Than in itself adds another 7, if not 8, figure number onto the number of users. I personally don't fully count these though, as your think of PC gaming, you think of a desktop or laptop, and a lot of these users are not on tablets, however the majority are still on their PC.
Secondly, companies are not developing for PC any more? Come on... The biggest games of the last decade originated on PC and are still developed for PC, like CoD, which was PC only or MoH, which was PC only. Then look at more recent games that have been major talking points, Minecraft, LoL, Dayz, all of them are either still PC exclusive or developed mainly for PC. To say no team is developing for PC, yet failing to look at the likes of Mojang, Riot, Bohemia, Blizzard, Valve and Creative Assembly and the countless indie developers is extremely ignorant and short sighted. Even your developers selling games on more than one platform, like Activision and EA still develop and sell their games on PC.
Thirdly, you are ignoring mods completely. Most developers make an extremely good platform and they bug fix but stop. That means on a console you get what you are given. With PC though, the mod community will keep people coming. You mention Crysis 3 being the best looking game on PC, but I would argue that Crysis 1 with mods, GTA4 with mods or even the upcoming Arma 3 as standard look far better.
People said at the release of the PS3 and 360 that PC gaming was now over. Just look how wrong they are. You think that if a developer stopped making games for PC completely that there aren't 100 that will come and fill their spot with equally as good or better games? PC gaming is going nowhere, now or in the foreseeable future