toratek
banned
Sounds like it's their fault for breaking the System Builder LA. I mean, the license is pretty clear on what you can with their OEM software.
Custom Computer Business?
- Thread starter Alien Ware
- Start date
Sounds like it's their fault for breaking the System Builder LA. I mean, the license is pretty clear on what you can with their OEM software.
PunterCam
Active Member
Slagging alienware nowadays eh? They sell the best pc's out there in my opinion, yes they're expensive, but if I had the money (and for a huge amount of people, buying one would be pennys) I'd have one in a shot. I only know one person who has one, and apparently the after sales service is unreal, they can't do enough. That alone would sell me it, rather than the usual ¨my hard drive failed, I only bought it 2 weeks ago¨. ¨I'm sorry sir, that's just how it goes¨ or ¨you want blank DVD's?¨.
People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.
I don't bother building computers anymore, too much hassle for too little gain. Yeah, maybe I'd've saved myself a couple of hundered when i bough my mac, but **** it, I've got a mac. It always works, I can run osx and windows, I don't wonder why it sometimes locks up for a moment, or why the cd drive sometimes dissapears from 'my computer', because someone else has been through these problems and fixed them long before I got my hands on it. Plus I've got an uber quite piece of aluminium art sitting in my room, not some plastic vibrating shithouse
People talk about custom pc building like it's an art, and people should be impressed, but any monkey can do it, there is absolutely nothing technical about it. There is no market for custom built computers, you can get a dell sooo cheap if you just need an internet station (I'd struggle to build one for much under their selling price, may £10 here and there), and if you want a bit of style you get an imac.
I don't bother building computers anymore, too much hassle for too little gain. Yeah, maybe I'd've saved myself a couple of hundered when i bough my mac, but **** it, I've got a mac. It always works, I can run osx and windows, I don't wonder why it sometimes locks up for a moment, or why the cd drive sometimes dissapears from 'my computer', because someone else has been through these problems and fixed them long before I got my hands on it. Plus I've got an uber quite piece of aluminium art sitting in my room, not some plastic vibrating shithouse
tlarkin
VIP Member
They won their case against MS and then counter-suited them because of the slander it brought their business. I have seen a lot in my time as far as software licensing goes, and a lot of people do not comply 100% with their licenses. I just got done deploying CS3 at work. We have a site license, which consists of actually this: 500 installs in company, and 50 take home installs. Now, with my new inventory system in place it logs every thing I install and I have only hit about 150 machines that needed it so far and maybe 3 or 4 take homes. If I get audited I have an inventory system that can generate a PDF, HTML, XML, or whatever sheet that I can send them proving my installs.
Back when MS sued this company it was like in 1997, and that kind of technology wasn't around, it was done by hand on real paper with a pen back then, or through some shoddy manual data inputted database. So, yeah MS attacked a lot of people back then because it was easier for them to justify it, which created a market for guess what? Inventory software for your software licenses.
tlarkin
VIP Member
My old job was supporting and administering 10,000 desktops/notebooks and about 65 servers with about a 3% Mac population. All servers running Novell (netware or suse) and windows 2k3. Almost all desktops and notebooks for HP business class, servers were all HP Proliant. My current job is managing 6,000 Macs and 20 Xserves on a complete OD mac back bone network.
I'd rather work with the Macs any and every day over a windows box or a windows server.
toratek
banned
Take a look here:
tlarkin
VIP Member
I'm not impressed. I have fixed and taken apart screw for screw, laptops, desktops, every mac product, high def tvs, cars, appliances (washer and dishwasher, and food disposals), a variety of guns, cell phones, console systems, etc.
Anyone can do it, it really is just assembling parts in a box for the most part with computers. Its not like murderbox does anything the consumer can't, and I doubt it could match the customer service of the larger companies or the support you get, because it can't afford the staff to do it.
I have had such bad luck even contacting smaller businesses because they have one guy answering the phone for the whole company.
There is nothing that murderbox can build that some teenager on this forum can't.
Interested
New Member
that is one hella sweet murderbox.
toratek
banned
That case has been cut, sand blasted and put back together... But anyway, what is your point? I could bring the same argument about cars, after all I could build my own... right?
Since you where praising Alienware, take a look here: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Alienware
Then look at other companies like VooDoo PC, Falcon NW and Puget Systems. Puget is a small company by the way, but they have a great staff.
And since you're claiming that it's better to do business with the big dogs, here is something for you: Alienware started small to, and it took them a while to get where they're at. So why would you put down the smaller builders? Some will make it, and most will go away. Your arguments don't have much validity, because in theory anyone could do anything.
Care to talk C.B. radios with me? Oh, but wait, in your opinion CB shops shouldn't exist either, because after all, even a monkey could take apart/mod/fix a CB radio... Gimme a break...
tlarkin
VIP Member
*sigh*
Its a niche market, most people just want to buy a PC or a Mac, and don't want to have to hassle with anything custom built, unless they them self are a hobbyist of some sort. Then, they will most likely want to do it them self.
When did I ever praise alienware? I would never ever own any of their way over priced systems.
Here is the problem, and you are failing to see this. First off all computer companies started off small, but if I have a failed part on my $3000 custom built desktop I want to call support and have that god damn part over nighted to me the next day for warranty replacement. Do those companies meet those standards?
I never said they shouldn't exist, I said there is not a lot of money in it. My main point and overall point is, that if you want to make money you can't do it off of hardware sales. The CD radio guys don't make their money off selling the product, they make their money off of servicing it.
toratek
banned
I am sorry, that was PunterCam that praised Alienware.
It seems to me that everyone is mixing up here the different markets. I am also selling custom computers systems, and no, and am not selling your garden variety "ultimate gaming system" bullshit. Most of my customers want custom powerful systems to get actual work done. Some of them want workstation to do CAM/CAD, rendering or video editing, but they don't want to pay companies like BOXX for something like that, and some want to have 100% control over their choices. But all of them want their systems personalized. No, Murderbox is not impressive for me at all, I have built machines many times more powerful than theirs. Not everyone wants to build their own system. The enthusiast that play with exotic hardware are doing it because that's their hobby. But some people can't make the distinction.
No one will overnight you anything for your $3000 system. Falcon NW for the 1 year period of warranty will have FedEx overnight it from you to them and back if something is wrong with the system, but no one else does that. I do cross shipping for all my customers if they need replacement parts and can install them themselves. I am very flexible when it comes to this stuff. But no one else does it in the consumer market. Now if we're talking commercial/enterprise support, well, that's a different ball game.
Look, I completely agree with you: Most of todays builders are full of shit. I've been looking at Falcon NW systems, and for the $10K I can't even get my damn video cards liquid cooled. And they charge all this for the privilege of owning a "custom system", with their only customization being the "exotic" paint job (you'll have to shell out $1400 or so). They are using sub standard Silverstone Strider power supplies. Silverstone is a good company, and some of their power supplies are awesome (the Zeus line is Tier 1, the Olymia line is Tier 2, but still great, and the Strider is made by Enhance and it sucks). They use the same crappy EVGA motherboards like everyone else, and cheap liquid cooling... Of course I don't agree either. Alienware? Same crap, cheap everything, low quality craftsmanship. I've seen how this systems are built.
Now I couldn't say anything bad about Puget Systems for instance because they handle their business very good, and offer some real cool customizations, that most others don't, including a custom Antec 182 case fused with a Coolance Liquid Cooling System. Go to their website www.pugetsystems.com and look. That's not something that every teenager does. Also, their website is Full of Facts, not Full of Shit. That's the type of business model I want to follow, be open and honest and helpful to my customer, and not full of crap.
In this niche market, most will take your money and run with it. I see your arguments, and by no means did I intend to offend you, and I am sorry if I did so, please accept my apologies.
It seems to me that everyone is mixing up here the different markets. I am also selling custom computers systems, and no, and am not selling your garden variety "ultimate gaming system" bullshit. Most of my customers want custom powerful systems to get actual work done. Some of them want workstation to do CAM/CAD, rendering or video editing, but they don't want to pay companies like BOXX for something like that, and some want to have 100% control over their choices. But all of them want their systems personalized. No, Murderbox is not impressive for me at all, I have built machines many times more powerful than theirs. Not everyone wants to build their own system. The enthusiast that play with exotic hardware are doing it because that's their hobby. But some people can't make the distinction.
No one will overnight you anything for your $3000 system. Falcon NW for the 1 year period of warranty will have FedEx overnight it from you to them and back if something is wrong with the system, but no one else does that. I do cross shipping for all my customers if they need replacement parts and can install them themselves. I am very flexible when it comes to this stuff. But no one else does it in the consumer market. Now if we're talking commercial/enterprise support, well, that's a different ball game.
Look, I completely agree with you: Most of todays builders are full of shit. I've been looking at Falcon NW systems, and for the $10K I can't even get my damn video cards liquid cooled. And they charge all this for the privilege of owning a "custom system", with their only customization being the "exotic" paint job (you'll have to shell out $1400 or so). They are using sub standard Silverstone Strider power supplies. Silverstone is a good company, and some of their power supplies are awesome (the Zeus line is Tier 1, the Olymia line is Tier 2, but still great, and the Strider is made by Enhance and it sucks). They use the same crappy EVGA motherboards like everyone else, and cheap liquid cooling... Of course I don't agree either. Alienware? Same crap, cheap everything, low quality craftsmanship. I've seen how this systems are built.
Now I couldn't say anything bad about Puget Systems for instance because they handle their business very good, and offer some real cool customizations, that most others don't, including a custom Antec 182 case fused with a Coolance Liquid Cooling System. Go to their website www.pugetsystems.com and look. That's not something that every teenager does. Also, their website is Full of Facts, not Full of Shit. That's the type of business model I want to follow, be open and honest and helpful to my customer, and not full of crap.
In this niche market, most will take your money and run with it. I see your arguments, and by no means did I intend to offend you, and I am sorry if I did so, please accept my apologies.
tlarkin
VIP Member
Being a self maintainer for Gateway, Apple, HP/Compaq, and several others, I get every part over nighted to me, if its a mission critical part like a server part, I get it same day shipped, and sometimes if I order it early enough I get it that day depending on lots of factors.
It is also a niche market. When, at my previous job, we designed a render farm for the Maya animation lab, we didn't custom build anything. We went out and filled it with Dual 2.5 Mac G5s. From a maintenance stand point custom systems in an enterprise environment are nothing but a pain. You want one main base OS image that will run on every system.
So, custom build systems is a niche market and I don't really see any real feasible business model out there to really make a lot of money off of just hardware sales.
I never once said, don't build custom systems, what I was saying is go get certified become a warranty provider, learn networking, troubleshooting, data recovery, data management, software package deployment, etc etc etc because those services is where you will make more money.
No need for apologies since I hardly ever really get offended and this conversation never went to a personal level in my mind.
Perhaps you are right and I agree there are those with money that will just pay for it, however I don't let anyone touch/configure/build/repair my computers. There are those who just don't care either. I don't do work on my car that I don't want to do, I just do the real basic stuff. I'd rather pay someone that has a garage and can get it done in a few hours instead of me taking a whole weekend to do it. However, from a stand point of making money you gain more profit from service than hardware sales in computing.
It is also a niche market. When, at my previous job, we designed a render farm for the Maya animation lab, we didn't custom build anything. We went out and filled it with Dual 2.5 Mac G5s. From a maintenance stand point custom systems in an enterprise environment are nothing but a pain. You want one main base OS image that will run on every system.
So, custom build systems is a niche market and I don't really see any real feasible business model out there to really make a lot of money off of just hardware sales.
I never once said, don't build custom systems, what I was saying is go get certified become a warranty provider, learn networking, troubleshooting, data recovery, data management, software package deployment, etc etc etc because those services is where you will make more money.
No need for apologies since I hardly ever really get offended and this conversation never went to a personal level in my mind.
Perhaps you are right and I agree there are those with money that will just pay for it, however I don't let anyone touch/configure/build/repair my computers. There are those who just don't care either. I don't do work on my car that I don't want to do, I just do the real basic stuff. I'd rather pay someone that has a garage and can get it done in a few hours instead of me taking a whole weekend to do it. However, from a stand point of making money you gain more profit from service than hardware sales in computing.
toratek
banned
I totally agree with you
No, there is no business model in custom gaming systems. They aren't really production systems. I mean, no person in their right mind would run an EVGA motherboard in a production system. They are just unreliable... I stay away from them. You can see from my sig. what I'm using. Building custom systems comes down to making a unique commercial product that stands out in terms of aesthetics, design, performance, and "coolness factor". I could compare it the custom car market, that one doesn't have a business model either, yet the tuners out there are all alive and well. And you can trust me on this: when I put a system together, I give allot of attention to detail. Will this business go away? Sure. Computers are becoming smaller and smaller, and this type of "muscle machines" - analogous to muscle cars won't be built at some point anymore. Take a Mac for instance: It's perfect the way it is. It's compact, power efficient, and runs a decent OS. Unlike others who are trying this, I am not doing this to prove that I can twist wires better than others, but because I want to have a business set up so I can put myself trough school. I know that the money is in service. I am not naive when it comes to that. Sadly computer manufacturing is becoming an automated process. I was looking at Dell, and for $3000 you can get a decent Dell XPS system. Now would I get one? Absolutely not, and that's just because everything in there is Dell proprietary and lower quality than I can find at any e-tailer. And even do you where not impressed with the "Murderbox", the guy builds one machine at a time, and then delivers it personally home to you regardless where you live. He makes his money from service. So I guess that we booth agree on the same stuff...
OvenMaster
VIP Member
That's it in a nutshell.
In my area, at least three people set up shop building custom PCs and offering service on them, as well as PCs bought elsewhere.
None of them lasted even a year.
People who don't know anything about computers just buy a new one when the old one dies.
People who do know about computers will build and/or fix their own... and save money.
People who run large numbers of computers (libraries, hospitals, offices, etc.) will have their own in-house IT staff, or more often, a large contract company they can just call when something blows up.
Where does this leave someone who wants to build custom PCs for a living?
Thousands of dollars poorer after six months and looking for a new job.
My two cents.
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newguy5
New Member
with the proper advertising any business can succeed, but even with a good idea businesses typically fail. i just think you'll get into this and pretty quickly decide it's a really big waste of time. not to mention how crappy our economy is right now...it's a terrible time to start a copy business because people aren't spending their money like they do in a thriving market. but you can go for it if you want...it just seems to me you aren't considering all of the BIG factors that affect businesses more than the idea of just saying "maybe i can make $1000 a week!" i'm just saying this isn't the first time someone has said, "hey, what if i copy what this other company does but do it differently," and gone nowhere.
someone said making $1000 a week wouldn't be enough money...that's $52,000 a year, about $19,000 more a year than the average male makes in a lifetime (per year).
someone said making $1000 a week wouldn't be enough money...that's $52,000 a year, about $19,000 more a year than the average male makes in a lifetime (per year).
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camel lips
New Member
You have gotten some good advice in this thread.I have researched opening my own shop for a couple of years.
I am willing to be you are not going to make more than 15% -20% on building new systems.When you factor in your time,,it hardly seems worth it to build custom units but it is part of your overall plan so be sure to build good ones that will last for years.
Service and service after the sale are two key areas where you are going to make your money.Being able to articulate to your customer what parts he needs
to buy when he ask you a question is going to be the make or break of your business.If you don't have a good handle on how to deal with people and know your product line,,your business is bound to fail.
I am willing to be you are not going to make more than 15% -20% on building new systems.When you factor in your time,,it hardly seems worth it to build custom units but it is part of your overall plan so be sure to build good ones that will last for years.
Service and service after the sale are two key areas where you are going to make your money.Being able to articulate to your customer what parts he needs
to buy when he ask you a question is going to be the make or break of your business.If you don't have a good handle on how to deal with people and know your product line,,your business is bound to fail.
Alien Ware
banned
Just so everyone knows i'm still reading all comments
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PunterCam
Active Member
Nice box, but inside it's still the same old rubbish - have you ever seen inside a mac pro? It's stunning, quite an eye opener if you think this is anything...
toratek
banned
I sure have. I don't use parts like that to build PCs. I couldn't ask in good continence $6K for a PC with a EVGA 680i motherboard... If I had the capabilities of Apple, I would gladly eliminate most cables out of the PC, just like they did. Yeah, the Mac PRO is the bomb, not to mention how sleek and well designed Mac OS X is
PunterCam
Active Member
I sure have. I don't use parts like that to build PCs. I couldn't ask in good continence $6K for a PC with a EVGA 680i motherboard... If I had the capabilities of Apple, I would gladly eliminate most cables out of the PC, just like they did. Yeah, the Mac PRO is the bomb, not to mention how sleek and well designed Mac OS X is
Funny thing is I hate OSX! I find it far less stable and predictable than windows, but maybe I'm just not totally used to it still... I kinda feel apple need to gamble a bit and take on some windows ideas (without all the shit obviously), rather than simply tweaking an OS that is still kinda obtuse. If m/s get vista sussed soon I might just have to start using that, so please apple!