Adding more bass to an already existing digital set up

lunchboxx

New Member
Hey people,
i got a z-5500 sound system, and an Asus xonar d2.

i love the sound from it, but i was just wondering if theres anyway to add an extra subwoofer? maybe a powered subwoofer somehow?

if anyone has any ideas, please tell.
 

Zatharus

VIP Member
You would simply need to add a sub to the card's analog output - easily multiplied to additional subs if you wish. Or, you can mult the S/PDIF out to multiple decoders and then to a sub - not as trivial.
 

daisymtc

Active Member
Do you mean your bass is not loud enough? Or not heavy enough?
If it s not heavy enough, you could try to adjust it at the audio center
 

Zatharus

VIP Member
Right now all i have is the Z5500 hooked up to my sound card with a digital coax cable.

Correct. That is why I was talking about possibly splitting the S/PDIF connection (Digital Coax).


What would be the best way to add this powered subwoofer?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130


Could i use those speaker level inputs/outputs? the R and L rca connections? and what is the LFE input used for?

Thanks for the help
LFE "Output" is for your Low Frequency Effects channel - aka. the Sub. You would want to use this output on your sound card to connect that Polk sub. You will also need to make sure that your audio system can support sending a multichannel (5.1 or 7.1) signal to both the analog outputs (the LFE out) and the digital outputs that your main speakers are connected to. Otherwise, if you can only use one or the other, you will have to make a choice and stick with either all analog (simple setup, just split the LFE between subs) or all digital (which would require a secondary decoder for that analog sub).

Edit: That z-5500 sub is quite substantial for a computer speaker system as it is. Any particular reason for adding in the Polk? It really sounds like you are heading into the level of audio equipment where you would be better served by using a home theater setup.
 
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bomberboysk

Active Member
Just an FYI, i wouldnt recommend polk for a subwoofer(although their speakers are excellent, their subwoofers arent that good for the cost). At that price point, the BIC Venturi V1220 or premier acoustics PA-120(I have used the V1220, but not the PA-120, on AVSforums though the PA-120 seems to be one of the favorites):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-432

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...310166340243&ff4=263602_263622#ht_1647wt_1165

Also, adding a subwoofer would increase bass output, which if you want to increase your audio experience you would be better off getting better drivers for your system before delving into another subwoofer, such as a set of polk 40's.
 

lunchboxx

New Member
I was just using the polk audio as an example, as it seems most powered sub woofers have similar connections.
I'm only going to be using the extra sub for things such as movies and possibly games, to add that intensity. My set up is in a fairly big room with openess all around, unlike a small room would sound different.

I can only chose one or the other when it comes to input, i'm thinking my only way is splitting the digital coax, have it run into a digital receiver and hook up the sub to that.
Seems a bit much
 

astrallite

New Member
The best budget subwoofer manufacturers to me are Hsu and SVS. Velodyne would come in as a distant third with their Digital EQ series (DEQ-xR).

www.hsuresearch.com

www.svsound.com

By "budget" I mean bang for your buck. SVS, unfortunately, is probably out of your price range, their "entry level" sub is the NSD-12, which is $599. It gives you flatline performance (as seen below) to around 18hz; you would need to go to about $1,100+ minimum on retail subs to approach that kind of performance. That said, at 74lbs it's pretty hefty (SVS high end subs go up to 160lbs).


PB12-nsd_2mGP_cropped_576.JPG


The Hsu subs are a bit lighter while providing exceptional performance. The STF-1 ($254) is 35lbs and provides flatline performance to 30hz, and the STF-2 ($349) is 44lbs goes to 25hz. Both price and size-wise they are easier to swallow and I believe in your price range.
 
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Zatharus

VIP Member
...
I can only chose one or the other when it comes to input, i'm thinking my only way is splitting the digital coax, have it run into a digital receiver and hook up the sub to that.
Seems a bit much

Yes, that is correct.

You will have to decode the digital signal to get the proper channel to patch to any analog gear. This is what the Z-5500 "receiver" is doing already. Running to a surround receiver is where you are heading anyway if you want bigger sound than what the Z-5500 can provide.

Seems a bit much? Perhaps. It depends on how you want to tackle the issue. The more complicated way would be to splice into the multi-pin output cable that runs from the Z-5500 control box to the sub and split the sub output from there. I do not have any information on the pin-outs, but I am sure that is available on the web somewhere if you really want to go that convoluted route. Alternatively, you could just use the analog outputs from your computer and run them to the Z-5500 control box's direct inputs, splitting the Sub/Center output to your alternate sub. Yes, it's analog, but it would simplify what you are trying to do tremendously.
 

bomberboysk

Active Member
Not to mention, by having a Xonar and using digital, you are totally defeating the purpose of having a dedicated audio card. The DAC's in the z-5500's are of worse quality than those in the xonar, so by utilizing the digital you are bypassing the DAC's on the xonar, and instead the file is decompressed by the receiver(z-5500 speakers control pod/board inside subwoofer). If you want to use digital, onboard is going to be pretty much the same for a digital signal, but the xonar really shines in analog output. I have a set of Z-5500's myself, and sound quality is much better when using analog outputs vs digital(on a good dedicated sound card of course), as i said earlier, the sound card you paid ~$100 for is not giving you any tangible benefits by using digital output.
 
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lunchboxx

New Member
OK, i never knew analog would sound better than digital, iv only tried it for a while until i bought a digital coax lol.
So for optimal sound quality i should use analog? i wont receive the benefits of dts digital, or is the change miniscule?
 

PunterCam

Active Member
Lets not forget that a digital coax output cannot be supplying any 5.1 system with 6 separate channels of audio, you need to use the 3 mini-jack outputs from the sound card. That Xonar card looks properly shielded, so I'd have no problem making use of the analogue outputs, but I doubt it'll sound any better than if you let the z5500s do the decoding - it's only a £100 card, not a £1000 one.

As for adding subs to these 'integrated' 5.1 systems, I'm sure people have already given you possibilities better than I can - but generally speaking it's a hassle that's pretty much not worth it imo.
 

lunchboxx

New Member
The xonar d2 is a decent card.

One of the best in the $200 price range. I also have a pair of Sennheiser hd280s, which sound ORGASMIC with the xonar d2.

So now if i ever want to add a powered sub, it will be easy. I hooked up some analog cables, i can tell there's a difference, just can decide if its better or not.
 

bomberboysk

Active Member
Lets not forget that a digital coax output cannot be supplying any 5.1 system with 6 separate channels of audio, you need to use the 3 mini-jack outputs from the sound card. That Xonar card looks properly shielded, so I'd have no problem making use of the analogue outputs, but I doubt it'll sound any better than if you let the z5500s do the decoding - it's only a £100 card, not a £1000 one.

As for adding subs to these 'integrated' 5.1 systems, I'm sure people have already given you possibilities better than I can - but generally speaking it's a hassle that's pretty much not worth it imo.

The DAC's are much better on the xonar or even the X-fi than the ones on the Z-5500. This doesn't change the fact the z-5500's satellites are pretty cheap units from tangbands lower end, but an increase in quality should be present nonetheless.
 

Zatharus

VIP Member
OK, i never knew analog would sound better than digital, iv only tried it for a while until i bought a digital coax lol.
So for optimal sound quality i should use analog? i wont receive the benefits of dts digital, or is the change miniscule?

It depends. If you have horrible analog cables, then you will definitely notice a difference. Bomberboysk also raises some good points.

Technically, since that card supports Dolby Live and DTS Connect encoding, you can use it to its full potential via digital or analog. The digital option is very convenient, as I am sure you know, in that you can get discreet surround channels through one simple connection with the proper decoder (z-5500 in your case).


Lets not forget that a digital coax output cannot be supplying any 5.1 system with 6 separate channels of audio...

Yes it can. See above.
 

lunchboxx

New Member
It depends. If you have horrible analog cables, then you will definitely notice a difference. Bomberboysk also raises some good points.

Technically, since that card supports Dolby Live and DTS Connect encoding, you can use it to its full potential via digital or analog. The digital option is very convenient, as I am sure you know, in that you can get discreet surround channels through one simple connection with the proper decoder (z-5500 in your case).




Yes it can. See above.


so what do i stick with? digital coax or analog?
 

Zatharus

VIP Member
If you really want to add in only a second sub, the easiest method would be to use your cards discrete analog outputs.

Parts needed:

- 1x stereo mini to 2xstereo mini splitter - plug directly to your center/sub out on your audio card, one side for the adapter below and the other for your z-5500

- 1x stereo mini to split RCA stereo pair - plug into one of the mini-splitter ends

- 1x RCA cable - connect to "sub" side of the split RCA pair and to the new powered sub input
 
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PunterCam

Active Member
It depends. If you have horrible analog cables, then you will definitely notice a difference. Bomberboysk also raises some good points.

Technically, since that card supports Dolby Live and DTS Connect encoding, you can use it to its full potential via digital or analog. The digital option is very convenient, as I am sure you know, in that you can get discreet surround channels through one simple connection with the proper decoder (z-5500 in your case).




Yes it can. See above.

I'm never really sure about this... There's no digital protocol that can allow more than 2 channels of digital signal down a coax line, certainly none I know of.

So I assume these coax surround systems just use clever encoding and decoding of a stereo signal - is this actually classed as proper surround? I mean, you couldn't play 5 separate songs out of the 5 speakers on the z5500s... You could by using the analogue mini-jack inputs...

And back on DACs - they're all the same under a grand. Don't believe a word of it. The dacs are MUCH better on the xonar than the z5500s? I doubt anyone could hear any difference. It's all nonsense. I've tested dozens of converters back to back over the years - most people who've stopped in for a listen didn't have a clue. 5 year old creative something dac vs benchmark 'whateverthenumberis' dac. Difference? Yes. Relevant? Not for 99.999999% of the world. I was still visually checking what I was listening to, and that's the point.

Speakers make a difference, and if you have literally the best speakers on the planet, whatever they may be, a set a big ATCs or something then, being nothing more than a consumer, you worry about it.

Excellent ramble, now where be my shoes...
 

astrallite

New Member
I'm never really sure about this... There's no digital protocol that can allow more than 2 channels of digital signal down a coax line, certainly none I know of.

So I assume these coax surround systems just use clever encoding and decoding of a stereo signal - is this actually classed as proper surround? I mean, you couldn't play 5 separate songs out of the 5 speakers on the z5500s... You could by using the analogue mini-jack inputs...

And back on DACs - they're all the same under a grand. Don't believe a word of it. The dacs are MUCH better on the xonar than the z5500s? I doubt anyone could hear any difference. It's all nonsense. I've tested dozens of converters back to back over the years - most people who've stopped in for a listen didn't have a clue. 5 year old creative something dac vs benchmark 'whateverthenumberis' dac. Difference? Yes. Relevant? Not for 99.999999% of the world. I was still visually checking what I was listening to, and that's the point.

Speakers make a difference, and if you have literally the best speakers on the planet, whatever they may be, a set a big ATCs or something then, being nothing more than a consumer, you worry about it.

Excellent ramble, now where be my shoes...

Dolby Digital Live is just an acronym for real-time Dolby Digital encoding. You turn discrete channels into compressed 112kbps/channel DD5.1. Not exactly high fidelity.

HDMI of course is the real solution, but since PC surround sound development pretty much died after 2006, you aren't gonna see an HDMI multimedia solution anytime soon.
 
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