Call of Duty, the Destroyer

I think what they're trying to say is that games like MW2, WaW, Blops, MW3 and or Halo 1, 2, 3, 4 (what are they at now?) are literally the same games over and over again, and we don't want that.

yeah I get that full and well, but the argument about which games were innovative or fresh or whatever and every game mentioned got shot down in some form or another, like borderlands. Yeah that game has elements of several others, and core elements of different genres. But its style (not just the graphics) is really different from anything before. It is nothing like bioshock or mass effect or fallout. I imagine it could be seen as repetitive, I didn't think so, I ran through the whole game and enjoyed it. alas, it really wasn't mind blowing for me but I liked it. I imagine people are constantly looking for something brand new, stuff that's not been done before, which at this point is impossible. Any game is going to be based off a concept of another game, or based off another game entirely. The idea of minecraft isn't revolutionary in the least, notch just took the sandbox/world creator idea I did it better than anyone before.
 
What i like about this game is that although it appears every and every year with a new "version" the game still remains awesome.
This is the year i managed to get an official copy and played a little on internet and all i can say: OMG the game is good.
Keep up the good work devs
 
The idea that Call of Duty is causing any significant harm to video games as a whole is a joke. The war-shooter genre stagnated long before the popularity of Call of Duty, if anything CoD4 was a breath of fresh air.

The real issue here is the increased commercialization of video games. Few studios actually care about the content they put out now, which leads to low quality copycats. Everyone is emulating the CoD franchise right now, but as soon as some new massive blockbuster comes along everyone will start copying them.
 
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The idea that Call of Duty is causing any significant harm to video games as a whole is a joke. The war-shooter genre stagnated long before the popularity of Call of Duty, and anything CoD4 was a breath of fresh air.

The real issue here is the increased commercialization of video games. Few studios actually care about the content they put out now, which leads to low quality copycats. Everyone is emulating the CoD franchise right now, but as soon as some new massive blockbuster comes along everyone will start copying them.

Emulation is fine, a lot of companies copy, but then few do as Activision do where they milk an idea dry. Take a look at CS. Valve could have said they will release a CS game every year as Activision do now, and they would have made a fortune but they have standards, which Activision don't.

CoD didn't do anything to video games, but Activision and every other studio copying CoD, and all of the spanners that keep buying the games are causing problems to the industry by keeping us at this point
 
Looking back on it, you were told to imply that, or to call people, dictators is "out of line".

http://www.computerforum.com/191657-console-vs-computer-3.html

I am telling you now to not post labelling any other member as such just for having a different opinion.

To try and blame the recession for awful games when companies such as Valve, Mojang and Blizzard are putting out some excellent games and still making a tidy profit is clearly not true, because, as I say, a lot of games companies are making money by not grinding out shoddy games at a rate of knots, and instead taking their time and having quality over quantity.

And yes, it is the casual gamer that don't realise this because they don't play a large amount of games so they don't see that what they are playing has been done before, however now that they have had CoD4, WaW, MW2 and BLOPs, which are exact copies of each other, the realisation that they are getting stitched up will begin to be obvious and coD will fall flat on it's backside, crawl into a corner and die a sad, lonely life, hated by all but the modders that continue to make the good games (2, 4 and WaW) half decent by keeping it original

Ah, yes! Thank you for pointing that out! I do contradict myself sometimes, and again did so in my previous post. And I have been a little pig-headed in my previous posts, as well.

Anyways, I found a paragraph basically (kind of?) agreeing with what I stated earlier:

"The video gaming industry has grown rapidly in the last two decades, with striking similarities to the movie business. Large publishing houses (production studios) support development studios (writers, directors, artists, etc.) through a long development cycle (filming and editing), during which a game (movie) makes no money. At the end of development, the publisher (production studio) licenses the game for distribution, promoting it in magazines, and reaping most of the revenue. However, if a game fails to sell well, the publisher will not recoup its initial investment. Mindful of this fact, dominant publishers such as Activision Blizzardand Electronic Arts (ERTS) have largely stayed to a simple formula - develop successful concepts for game franchises, and then launch a series of sequels."
-WIKI ANALYSIS

Now I have the utmost respect for Blizzard. In the quality of qualites, Blizzard IS the quality, the Rolls Royce, or porcelain, if you will, of the gaming industry. Blizzard painstakingly spends years creating a game by hand, it seems, changing the interface, the story, even the gameplay, in the best interest of the game, and, in probably the majority of eyes, is perfection once competed. However, there is a reason Activision purchased Blizzard. That article tends to agree with that I stated earlier about how in a recession, game companies are less willing to take risks with new and edgy games, because often, they just don't make money. Now that is one article, of course, but it is a completely possible, and a more in depth answer than, "blame casual gamers", or "companies are just over-corporated" or "commercialized". It just isn't that simple. As of now, it's more of a race to keep from losing money, not to keep making it, if you see what I mean.

Also, I believe our opinions on "casual" gamers are quite different. From what I gather, you believe a casual gamer is a person whom plays one game or few games, consistantly. Am I correct? I believe a casual gamer is more someone who probably rents a game, beats it, returns the game, and repeats. I myself am a hardcore gamer in the sense that I was in a clan in CoD, played some MLG games, my k/d spread was and still is rediculous, and played at least 8 hours a day. I played the hell out of SoF back in the day, and even made it into the AMW clan. Now here is where I believe the line gets vague with "casual". By defintion, "A casual game is a video game targeted at or used by a mass audience of casual gamers. Casual games can have any type of gameplay, and fit in any genre. They are typically distinguished by their simple rules and lack of commitment required in contrast to more complex hardcore games." That doesn't sound like CoD, definitely not say, Fallout, to me. That maybe sounds like a Facebook game, such as Farmville, an Xbox Live Arcade game, Xbox Kinect game, or an iPod app, Andriod app, etc.

The person I see as a casual gamer is a buddy of mine on my friends list who has over 50,000 Gamerpoints on Xbox Live, and I'm at 10,000, I think? He rents every game, beats it, rents another game,and sometimes buys a used copy that he deems is good enough for replay. How is someone, such as myself, a casual gamer when I consistantly play and strive to win and gain skill in a few select games, such as CoD, or Starcraft 2, for example. There are HUGE leagues for both of these games, that do require quite a bit of skill. Not that I don't play many games. I do rent from time to time, however, many games do not peak my interest as a good FPS or RTS, can. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Possibly one of two things will happen. Console games will decline, because, sure, after a while, these overproduced games will get old, and, PC gaming could quite possibly claim king again, rinse and repeat. Or, with the new technologies available, there will soon be a huge breakthrough in console gaming, even PC gaming. Why continue to bash gaming groups, when there is no evidence to prove that one group of gamers caused a stagnation in games? Gaming itself is a very young industry. There is no telling where it will go. It's been almost 15 years since Goldeneye was produced. We've made a hell of a leap in gaming with that short amount of time.

"Casual" gamers don't go out and buy games thinking, "I can't wait to help finance this overproduced game". The majority of gamers buy a sequel to a game, because, well, the previous version was great. Innovative? Debatable at best. Do they know their $60 their about to spend will be well spent with a game variant they know and love? Yes. If you're going to accuse the CoD franchise for being overproduced, you should probably look back into the so called "golden days" of games, when Mario was (and still is) most definitely overproduced. Mario is so famous because the creator stuck to the same old side scrolling, 2D animation that he knew would never fail for years. Using the same concept, just each new game had a new story line, new characters, etc. Even with Mario going 3D, Mario games are still produced side scrolling style, just with new graphics. Metroid is a similar example. This is why I believe sticking with the tried and true method for a little while doesn't do harm, and probably helps Activision and similar companies develop new technology or game engines with their huge profits.
 
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Firstly, Activision don't own Blizzard, Blizzard don't own Activision, and neither affect the other. The only thing they share is the majority holder, Vivendi

My view of a casual gamer is someone that plays just a few games. I would not consider myself a hardcore gamer as I run my own clan, own and run my own servers, play a lot of different games, and play a lot of hours a day. The clan thing doesn't necessarily make me not a casual gamer, and doesn't make all of our member's not casual gamers.

We have members that ignorantly play games, by which I mean they have said "I don't know about all this gameplay and graphics and stuff, I just get a game and play it and if I don't like it it sits there gathering dust". To me, that is the attitude of most casual gamers. My parents do the same, they got the new Wii Fit game without actually looking at what it had and then, even though all it has done has added another few activities, they thinkl it is the best thing ever, without realising they paid a hell of a lot extra, even though they already had most of the stuff.

This is the same with CoD, people buy the game and think it will be all exciting and new, then act surprised when it is the same thing just relabelled with a couple of new characters and a some new maps.

I think your definition of a casual game is completely wrong too. You can sit down and just play any game. Even with games like MMO's, you can still game, have fun and be successful without having to spend hours a day in battlegrounds or coming on at set times for raids. The game doesn't make a gamer a casual gamer, the state of mind does.

It is the same as a casual movie goer. They watch a few films, think every film is great and original and fresh, yet if they had seen even just a few more films they would realise what they are watching has been almost completely mimicked, probably just with different themes and characters.

Now I, and many others, still enjoy films immensely, and enjoy most games. A game doesn't have to be ground breaking to be fun and keep you immersed, but CoD isn't ground breaking, and if anything is now taking steps backwards. CoD 2 and CoD 4 were so highly polished and were done exceptionally, hence why they are still going so strongly. Look at where WaW (imo the last good CoD game even though a lot disagree), MW2 and BLOPs are now. BLOPs is still played, but not even close to the extent of CoD2 or CoD4, even though it is the latest and "greatest", because it is still riddled with problems, doesn't have as much content as the other games, has a lot more gimmicks and has been done extremely lazily.

Take just sounds as an example, Trearch's last CoD game before BLOPs, WaW, they recorded the actual gun sounds from all different directions, in all different environments and from all different distances, so they could get an authentic sound from a luger in an enclosed space, and from an Springfield sniper from a very long distance away in open space, from the reloading of guns, from the end of rifle clips, from the mechanisms of the guns. A hell of a lot of time and effort went into just the sounds. BLOPs though, they sound nothing like real guns. Every gun sounds the same, and even then the sounds don't sound as harsh as a real gun shot does, and this lack of attention and quality is seen throughout the game, and there is no excuse for it.

As a consumer, I am sure I am the exact same as everyone else in that I want quality. I would sooner have 1 exceptional game every 4 years and pay much more for it to make up the difference, than 1 piss poor game every year that isn't worth the extortionate price they ask for in the first place.

The reason it is the casual gamer's fault is because, as you say, they don't notice stuff like that. They play a game and complain after if they don't like it, rather than looking at previous games, maybe even waiting for the release to look at both professional reviews and reviews from the gamers themselves and looking at actual gameplay videos before committing themselves to a purchase. Previously, we had demo's of just about every game so you would have a fairly good idea of what a game would be like without having to buy it and pay the full whack, but devs don't do that any more, or very rarely, because they can show people how bad their game is after they have their money.

It isn't entirely the casual gamer's fault or entirely the developer's fault, but a combination of both. If a casual gamer thinks a game is fun, even if the majority think it is a huge decline in quality, they are getting what they paid for, even if it does impact on others. The devs and publishers are running a business, so of course want as much money for as little cost, but then in that you expect quality, and you expect a business to listen to its customers and act on what they want, which they aren't doing by constantly pouring out this stream of the same rubbish
 
I'm honestly a bit surprised you don't believe yourself a hardcore gamer. Where I'm at, you would be the very definition of a hardcore gamer. Of course "casual" and "hardcore" are completely subject to opinion. From my aspect, because I was in a clan that had very high requirements to join; my fellow clan members and I were hardcore gamers, I believed, and we were considered as such. And this is why we have such a huge difference in opinion, and why I don't believe "casual" gamers are at fault, at all, even if a little.

Now you say that "we have members that ignorantly play games". Sorry, but just like when you want privacy in your own home, or bedroom, it's not my business what to call gamers based on what they do with their games in their private life. You calling someone ignorant is the same as someone calling you stupid for buying a Ford lol. It's not true is it? My main problem with "casual" gamers being "the" issue, or "part" of the issue with gaming now, is that the word "casual" in itself is subject to opinion, and there's no way of proving casual gamers as the problem, or part of the problem, if people can't even agree what a casual gamer is!

You also stated that we previously had demo's of almost every game. I don't truly remember that being the case. Especially in the early days of the PC, and in the early days of the NES, SNES, Sega, etc. (even though I still consider gaming in the early stages, because, well, the gaming industry is still very, very young)

They play a game and complain after if they don't like it, rather than looking at previous games, maybe even waiting for the release to look at both professional reviews and reviews from the gamers themselves and looking at actual gameplay videos before committing themselves to a purchase.
To be honest, I don't know too many people who have bought games lately and have been so completely unsatisfied that they set the games down. My group of friends, and their group of friends and I alternate between a few games a day, practicing at them. For example, Forza, CoD, Battlefield, GTA of course, Borderlands, Crysis. CoD being the main one, but yeah.

As I stated before, if a gamer truly enjoys CoD BLOPs more than , say, CoD 4, that is the opinion of that gamer. That gamer is not then classified as "casual", "ignorant", or anything else. That gamer is truly having fun with the game he purchased, and who's right is it to call that gamer anything other than, a gamer? Trying to classify gamers as ignorant or simple minded is against exactly what games were created to do. Have fun with them. If you don't have fun with them, then return the game. Don't buy from Activision ever again. Just buy from Blizzard, and enjoy your perfect game that only comes out once every 3 to 5 years. If that's what you want, it's not my business to say otherwise, and it's not wrong.
 
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I didn't say I don't think I'm a "hardcore" gamer, I spend more of my time doing things related to games than I do anything else, be it playing them, managing my clan, speaking to clan members/fellow gamers. I don't think that because I am in a clan though that it makes me a hardcore gamer, and that is the same for everyone, because we have a lot of members that don't game massively, but just like to have some people to play with for an hour or two a week.

I wasn't calling anyone ignorant, what I am saying, and what I said above, is that they don't explore games and they don't look at them for their merits and flaws, they look at them as "can they be played?" and that is about it, in the same way, in the example I gave, people (myself included) are ignorant to films if they haven't seen a lot of them. A casual gamer doesn't keep up to date with the latest releases, future releases, how the games actually work or anything like that. A lot of people I know will walk into a shop and pick up a game just from the look of the box and give no thought to what it would actually be like.

I know very little about cars. I know how they work, but I don't know what makes a good car or a bad one, so if I went to buy one, I wouldn't be looking at what someone "in the know" would immediately look at - I would be ignorant to it, and it is this which I mean. I don't mean it is a personality trait or they should be looked down upon, but they do overlook facts that are clearly in front of them, such as CoD games are reskins of each other - they use the same engine, same gameplay, same everything, just a slightly different (and increasingly far fetched) story and more gimmicky crap. If I want pretty items, I will go play the sims, if I want to play a shooter, I don't expect to see curtains and tassles on my rifle.

For everything else you mentioned, I have consistently said it is the consumer's money to do with as they will so if they enjoy a game, great, but there is no denying they are halting progression.

If we had moved away from this ridiculous trend of arcade-like FPS games, right now we could have great games that put what we currently have to shame. That's not to say we would have, but what we are doing by not even trying is making it certain that nothing will ever change.

There are mods for CoD4 that put MW2 maps and weapons in and it is very similar to MW2, and now the same has happened for BLOPs. The fact that you can make a game that looks the same, plays the same and is, in effect, the exact same, minus a few details (like stupid amounts of kill-streaks) with just a mod shows how similar they are, and shows that the last releases could have just been DLC or expansions rather than new games.

Everyone I have spoke to has the same opinion that MW2, Homefront, BLOPs and just about every other FPS in the last couple of years have just been different versions of each other. The very same people are those that haven't bought the games, because what is the point? For one, you are getting the same game, and for two you are funding it. The people that are buying the games are those prepared to settle for second best and are those that don't actually care, so long as they have another game, even if it is the exact same game with a different name, 12 months later.

In the last post, I overlooked what you said about Mario, and that has been one of my pet hates in the gaming industry for the last few years. Mario, Sonic, Zelda, Metroid and all of the "different" versions of them, and how they are very almost identical to each other. And what a surprise - these are games aimed at children and casual gamers
 
This is what forums are about,a good discussion about something that most
of us can learn from,well done people keep it up.No losing you temper with each other.
 
Fear 3 is releasing an interesting multiplayer this time around. It looks like a fresh turn for first person shooters. They have one mode like survival on L4D, but the rest of the game types are completely new ideas as far as I am aware.
 
The engine used in MW2 and BLOPs is just a modified version of the engine used for CoD2 and WaW.

I think there is so little innovation right now. Of the last few years, the only refreshing games I can think of are Portal and Minecraft

I couldn't agree more. Its been getting stale because they've been focusing on graphics. Portal was a game that opened my eyes to what a first person "shooter" could be. A creative challenge. I'm gearing up for Portal 2 now :).
 
I couldn't agree more. Its been getting stale because they've been focusing on graphics. Portal was a game that opened my eyes to what a first person "shooter" could be. A creative challenge. I'm gearing up for Portal 2 now :).

Before anyone calls me on my post you quote, I meant CoD4 not 2
 
hey, at least when you buy CoD you know what you're going to get...
For me, Valve is ultimate when it comes to developing games. they made Half-Life 2 which may have been similar to other FPS's but was done so damn well that it kept me entertained for days. And don't get me started on Portal. I could play CoD for 3 days and still not have as much fun and laughs as playing portal through once. The whole idea that it's an FPS without the S surprised me immensely in the way that a whole lot of thpught has been put into making it so different from pretty much every other game.
 
Demilich can you tell me of one other FPS that has been going as long as COD4 other being Counter Strike.I think the opinions from everyone should be
respected without having to be told your opinion is wrong.

lol, pot calling the kettle black
 
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